6 year old new to guitar questions

[newtwanger]

Hi teacher guys,

We're thinking of giving my nephew a guitar and lessons for his 6th birthday and I have a few questions.

1/2 scale guitars seem to be useless toys, will a 3/4 scale strat be small enough?

What should we be asking prospective teachers to know they are suited to teach a 6 year old?

Any recommendations on things we should be looking at?

little background: My brother (his dad) is a bassist and my nephew is always playing on his little toy guitar and of course he is a mini-god at Guitar Hero.

The interest is certainly there and his dad will keep up the practice and add a bass beat.

[Tim Armstrong]

Six years old means his hands are relatively tiny. It might make more sense to start him on something that fits, like a ukulele or mandolin! I have a 10-year-old guitar student, but she's really big for her age (I'm thinking she's gonna be a 6 ft tall woman!), and her best friend is a normal-sized girl who can't even make a G chord on a regular guitar.

Tim

[BritishBluesBoy]

I started on a 3/4 size guitar when I was 6. It was perfect for me, but perhaps you could take him to the guitar store with you and see which fits best...?

[jazztele]

i have a 6 year old student now. He has a 3/4 size nylon string, and he does fine. He's not a tiny little kid, though, I'd say he's bigger than average.

anything smaller than 3/4 size that I've seen always has some really bad intonation issues, and rarely do these guitars (especially the acoustics) have much you can do to correct them.

as far as finding a teacher, before you even mention how old your little guy is, ask them how young they start a student. see what their reply is...if they say 10, chances are they've never had a student this small, and they'll do poorly.

the teacher should use some method book along with other supplemental items. A kid that young needs a lot of structure. See if the teacher will even consider 15 minute lessons for a few months--really.

also, as a teacher who teaches students ranging from 6 to 72 (!) i really like it if the parent(s) of the really little ones stay around during the lesson. I keep the door open and have a chair they can sit in and watch, and hopefully absorb some simple concepts along with their youngster, so it can be reinforced at home.

whatever you do, make sure the first thing every time you see this lil guy is ask him to show you what he learned at lessons this week. Ask him to teach you--the synthesis that's involved in showing someone else what you have learned is a higher order thinking skill that will very likely keep that info in his brain.

[newtwanger]

Thanks guys,

Jazztele, would you advise against using an electric as a first guitar/learning tool?

I like the idea of "snooping" in on the lessons so my brother can reinforce it at home (I'll give him one of my guitars, he only has basses).

I can't imagine what the teaching process is for someone so young.

[jazztele]

no. i think the whole "you should start on an acoustic" mentality is pretty baseless.

the only thing about starting with an electric is the cost--you'll be out a guitar AND an amp if the kid doesn't stick with it...but then again, if he starts on an acoustic but really wants to rock and roll (although i find most kids at that age really don't know what they want to play, they're happy just to be making music) that acoustic will eventually end up collecting dust.

whatever you do--no first act mini size acoustics. they are the worst pieces of junk i've come across in my teaching...i've seen two now who's neck joints have failed and the neck physically seperates from the body. I think they're held together with elmer's.

[J.T.S]

"G# Guitar" is nice quality, and smaller than regular full size guitars, its made both as acoustic and electric...

http://www.g-sharpguitar.com

[JayFreddy]

I agree with JazzTele.

In my experience, if the student is over 4 feet tall, start them on a regular size guitar. Not a regular-sized dreadnought or Gibson Jumbo, just a regular classical or a folk sized guitar, or possibly a Squier Tele. A&L makes a very nice nylon string version of their AMI that is great for younger students... AMI Nylon Cedar.

Nylon strings are easier on soft fingers and don't rust, so they tend to last longer, but extra light electric strings are fine too. If you go the electric route, get a hardtail like a Tele, no whammy bars to start, especially for a 6 year old.

I generally I don't teach students under age 8, but once I taught a 3 year old for about a year. I only agreed to teach this kid because her Dad, Grampa, and all 11 big brothers and sisters had perfect pitch, so she was in a good environment. When your 7 year old brother is screaming, "That's B flat stoopid!" from the other room, you learn to stay in tune pretty quickly...

In my experience/opinion, physical size isn't as big an issue as attention span, and the way kids process information.

As a teacher, I've found that many parents are just looking for a musical babysitter, and I'm not interested in doing that... For students under the age of 10, I require that a parent or guardian be present for the entire lesson. They can't just drop 'em off and come back in a half-hour (which often is more like 45 minutes or an hour...)

Also, I require that parents of very small children at least learn how to tune the guitar themselves. If the parents won't take the trouble to learn how to tune a guitar, their 6 year old isn't going to think it's worth learning either...

If your nephew's parents won't learn how to tune the guitar, you might consider a keyboard like the Casio LK 100 for starters, and save the guitar for the future...

FWIW, I've had good luck with the FJH Young Guitar Series. The workbooks and accompanying CD are highly recommend. The CD has some clever arrangements where the kid can just play 2 or 3 notes, but sound like a rock star playing in time with the CD.

EDIT: FJH Sample1, and FJH Sample 2.

Hope this helps.

[Tim Bowen]

I've taught students as young as five, and I'm the only guy at one of my teaching environments that accepts students younger than eight. Since it's just us talking here, I have to say that it's a real crapshoot in trying to spark the interest of a little munchkin with short attention span, despite the very best recommendations and efforts of experienced teachers.

I've dealt with these questions on a regular basis since 1984, for what it's worth. What I tell parents and guardians is that it's a bit like buying shoes for your child - they're going to outgrow them. As to recommendations, I toss my opinions out to those that inquire, state that I AM NOT making a specific recommendation, and let them argue amongst themselves (I like to distance myself from family debates). In a sense, it's six of one and half dozen of the other. Nylon string guitars ("Classical") guitars are easier on the fingers, but have wider necks and no dot inlays (which I've found to be a bit of a bane as to visualization). Most entry level players sound absolutely horrible on electric guitars (yes, the "skinnier" strings are 'easier' to play, and hence, all those dreadful newbie fretting hand intonation issues ensue). It's true that it's very difficult to find a 1/2 size instrument of reasonable quality. If a youngster is so small that a 3/4 size guitar of decent quality is too large, my suggestion is that it's a good idea to hang out for a little while longer before starting.

My personal preference is for a steel string acoustic along the lines of a Baby Taylor. That said, I'm constantly reminded of why I only offer opinions and don't offer specific recommendations to clients and potential clients. A few weeks back, the grandmother of a very small eight year old girl asked my opinions about available instrument choices within the store, which I offered. The young lady had chosen the only pink guitar in sight, which I pointed out in no uncertain terms was of cumbersome size for her small frame. After pitching a tantrum, the young lady's grandmom bought for her the pink guitar. Now I'm attempting to teach the young lady, and both her and her grandmom are taken aback by the difficulty of the youngster in approaching the instrument from a physical standpoint. What am I going to say? - "I told you so..."?
______________________________

Good info from JayFreddy, agreed on several key points.

[JayFreddy]

If you feel the need for a 3/4 size and decide to go with an electric (that's what the kid really wants, right?) your choices in terms of real musical instruments are limited.

While I generally prefer Fenders over Ibanez, in the world of mini-electrics, I think the Ibanez Mikro is tough to beat. The two I've played were surprisingly decent, played easily, stayed in tune, and actually sounded musical...

The Squier Mini-Strat is cute, but is useless as a musical instrument unless you upgrade the tuners, an added $30-$40 expense, plus the price of installing the new tuners if you can't do it yourself. Even after upgrading the tuners, the electronics are marginal at best.

The Jay Turser Mini Strat is similar to the Squier Mini, but with better quality tuners already installed from the factory. I haven't played one yet, but it looks promising.

With an electric, I'd also recommend getting an entire box (10 sets) of 8-38 ultra light strings to go with the guitar, along with a dozen extra high E strings...

[srmaximo]

I specialize in teaching young kids--ages 3-10--and I can't emphasize how important it is to find a guitar that fits the body of the child. Just keeping the darn thing on their lap is a trial, not to mention the huge feat of actually fretting a string. Why make it impossible by giving them an instrument that doesn't fit them? I see intonation problems as minor inconveniences in comparison to issues of playability. Sure, that out-of-tune note may be grating on us teachers, but it's not going to damage the child. Your primary goal is not to make beautiful music right away--it's to give them a sense of accomplishment and confidence, and to have fun.

About finding a teacher for your six-year-old--it's hard. I think I'm the only guitar teacher in Seattle who works with kids that young.

I wrote an article about teaching young kids guitar on my blog--lemme know what you think!

Rob

[hou35male]

I was 8 and learned on a FULL size acoustic, two years ain't gonna make a difference. As far as electric or acoustic, I have always taught that electric is the best way to go. My biggest concern here, does one of his parents/guardian play any kind of music? That would give him/her a chance at competition to keep the spark going. No spark, no music.

RJ

[dijos]

Originally Posted by JayFreddy

If you feel the need for a 3/4 size and decide to go with an electric (that's what the kid really wants, right?) your choices in terms of real musical instruments are limited.

While I generally prefer Fenders over Ibanez, in the world of mini-electrics, I think the Ibanez Mikro is tough to beat. The two I've played were surprisingly decent, played easily, stayed in tune, and actually sounded musical...

The Squier Mini-Strat is cute, but is useless as a musical instrument unless you upgrade the tuners, an added $30-$40 expense, plus the price of installing the new tuners if you can't do it yourself. Even after upgrading the tuners, the electronics are marginal at best.

The Jay Turser Mini Strat is similar to the Squier Mini, but with better quality tuners already installed from the factory. I haven't played one yet, but it looks promising.

With an electric, I'd also recommend getting an entire box (10 sets) of 8-38 ultra light strings to go with the guitar, along with a dozen extra high E strings...

I have those tuners on my black label tele; they're OK.

[Tim Bowen]

Originally Posted by srmaximo

I specialize in teaching young kids--ages 3-10--and I can't emphasize how important it is to find a guitar that fits the body of the child. Just keeping the darn thing on their lap is a trial, not to mention the huge feat of actually fretting a string. Why make it impossible by giving them an instrument that doesn't fit them? I see intonation problems as minor inconveniences in comparison to issues of playability. Sure, that out-of-tune note may be grating on us teachers, but it's not going to damage the child. Your primary goal is not to make beautiful music right away--it's to give them a sense of accomplishment and confidence, and to have fun.

About finding a teacher for your six-year-old--it's hard. I think I'm the only guitar teacher in Seattle who works with kids that young.

I wrote an article about teaching young kids guitar on my blog--lemme know what you think!

Rob

I liked your tutorial. You know kids!

Wow, you should be awarded sainthood or at least given a merit badge for taking on three year olds. The youngest I'll accept is five, and that's always 'iffy' at best. I'm associated with piano and violin teachers that take on extremely young children, but most guitar teachers that I know have a policy of working with kids eight years of age and older. I'm very up front with parents of seven year olds and younger as to potential pitfalls, but I like to give it a fair shake and let them decide for themselves if it's the right time or not - especially since very few of my associates are willing to take on the task. I've had some success with five and six year olds.

[Tim Bowen]

Originally Posted by hou35male

I was 8 and learned on a FULL size acoustic,...

I was 7, and I too learned on a full size acoustic, with action about half an inch off the board... what can I say, North Dakota was a really boring place to be snowed into, so I amused myself as best I could.

,...two years ain't gonna make a difference.

Sure it does. I've seen the realities of it on a daily basis for years. If the kid can't wrap their arm over the instrument or can't sit comfortably with it, the chances of the child getting frustrated and throwing in the towel loom large. If the instrument is too big for them, it's too big for them. No caring parent in their right mind would send their child out into the real world with a pair of sneakers that's two sizes too large, and if they've got any common sense at all, they'll allow similar consideration as to musical instruments.

[JayFreddy]

Originally Posted by srmaximo

I wrote an article about teaching young kids guitar on my blog--lemme know what you think!

Very nice, thanks for sharing! Can you explain more about "The String Mute 4000"? Seems like a great idea for kids. Is this just to keep the bass strings from ringing?

I'm curious, have you ever done anything for kids using open tunings? I find that little kids can strum better than they can fret, and being able to slide up and down with one finger while strumming like crazy can be good for 10 solid minutes of guitar fun... Maybe more!

Seriously, 3/4 sized guitars tuned to open C (CGCEGC) or open Cadd9 (CGCEGD) are easier on tender fingers too. Also, the open C works with the white keys on a piano, so if you have a keyboard or piano, groups of kids can actually "jam" together just by keeping a beat...

One of the keys I've found with the youngest kids is that the parents need to tune the guitar on a daily basis, and make it an interactive activity. If the parent can't or won't do this, most kids will pursue activities that give them more direct parental attention/approval.

[JPark]

I'm no teacher, but here's my 2 cents...

Definitely avoid getting a trem-bridge guitar, the fact you can screw around with it is too distracting. My 16 year old brother's first guitar was a Strat with a floating trem and he was too busy dive-bombing the trem instead of learnin chords... he's since "lost" the arm

[Mid Life Crisis]

I'm teaching a kid who is now 7 but was 6 when we started a year ago. He has a nice Yamaha 3/4 size steel string acoustic, much better than the cheapo nylon string thing he started on.

Concentration is definitely an issuse with kids this young. With the kid I teach, we started off at half hour lessons and have recently extended it to 45 minutes. To start with though it was a real struggle to keep him focused for the 30 minutes. In fact I was seriously thinking of telling his parents to give his lessons a break until he was mature enough to handle them, but I'm glad I didn't now as this boy has some natural talent.

I think it is a matter of slowly increasing the intensity of the lessons until they are able to concentrate the full time.

[srmaximo]

Originally Posted by JayFreddy

Very nice, thanks for sharing! Can you explain more about "The String Mute 4000"? Seems like a great idea for kids. Is this just to keep the bass strings from ringing?

That's right. I typically start them out learning how to play just a G chord, so I put the mute on 5th and 6th strings and have them fret 1st string, 3rd fret. We learn a handful of songs playing just that chord--"Are You Sleeping, Brother John," "Row, Row, Row Your Boat," and sometimes a few that really should have more than one chord, but sound decent with just one, like "Twinkle, Twinkle" and "The Itsy Bitsy Spider."

Then we move to two-chord songs--C and G7--and I move the mute to the 4th, 5th, and 6th strings. That way they can continue to just use one finger, fretting the 2nd string first fret, then the 1st string first fret. Getting that C chord to sound good is a huge accomplishment for any child under 7 years old. We play "The Hokey Pokey," "There Ain't No Bugs On Me," and "Buffalo Gals."

While we're dong this strumming stuff, we're also learning lots of bass lines on the 1st string. I've got a 5-year-old who's a huge KISS fan, and I've been teaching him simple bass lines to the choruses of KISS songs this way. He's almost ready to be singing along. "I WAS MADE FOR LOVING YOU BAYYYYBY!"

About alternate tunings...I have considered it, but haven't gone for it because 1) I still couldn't find a way to make it easier to CHANGE chords--sure, the 1 chord sounds fantastic, but they're stuck there; and 2) They might get confused or bummed out when we switch to regular tuning.

Still, that seems like a good idea for REALLY little kids who can't fret yet. I've got a 3-year-old right now who might be in that category (he's a new student). I might try an open C with him...

Thanks for your kind words about my tutorial!

Rob

[jazztele]

i've muted the bass strings on a little one's guitar too. sheet of copy paper, taped in a loop around them where the picking hand plays. If you can't pick the note, you can't hear it, right?

I've gone as far as using another sheet of paper to cover the bass strings for the first five frets or so too, for kids who keep fretting the wrong string.

[srmaximo]

Very cool, Jazztele. Whatever can help them get started.

Guitar is so much harder to get started on than an instrument like a piano--playing any note on the piano is much easier than playing a fretted note on the guitar--that you need to come up with these tricks to get started.

Even though it's awkward, if a child is drawn to the guitar, you still need to capitalize on it. That impulse they have is precious.