Basic theory

[telecaster803]

Any of you found a theory book for guitar that actually makes sense in real playing situations and applications ?

[jazzbender]

Only if a teacher is there to explain the real world applications. Otherwise, it's paint by numbers.

[garytelecastor]

Welcome to the forum, bud.
Check your email.

[FirstBassman]

Originally Posted by jazzbender

Only if a teacher is there to explain the real world applications. Otherwise, it's paint by numbers.

+ 1,000,000,000 !!!


I was always lost until I had a great local teacher go through some things with me.

But ... as books go, this one is one of the best:

[telecaster803]

Originally Posted by FirstBassman

+ 1,000,000,000 !!!


I was always lost until I had a great local teacher go through some things with me.

But ... as books go, this one is one of the best:

I HAVE THAT BOOK!
i guess im an idot... thats a possibility

[telecaster803]

G Major has F# in the 7th... yet G7 uses an F natural. Making all the notes in G , natural... no #/b .

If i have that right, then arent 7th chords the same as Dominant chords?

[CatfishStudios]

Ive scanned numerous books over the years and only retained a minimal amount of working knowledge..and still more through trial and error than books. Im a first year music major,kinda jumped ahead and took an improvisational jazz group course. Lacking the ability to sight read, I had to work much harder using that old crutch(my ear).I got an A in the course, but the struggle brought with it a determination to learn notation and theory as soon as possible.. and am currently in music 101....in the 5 weeks I've had with an instructor, and a piano in front of me...Ive actually begun to understand and retain the basic roots of theory. More than in 20 years of personal study. Some musicians are literate and self taught, Jaco Pastorius comes to mind, but most of us need some form of instruction.

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by telecaster803

G Major has F# in the 7th... yet G7 uses an F natural. Making all the notes in G , natural... no #/b

If i have that right, then arent 7th chords the same as Dominant chords?

It's very useful and helpful to indicate whether you're talking about key or a chord. For example when you say " Making all the notes in G , natural... no #/b " it would make your question much clearer if you specified whether you are talking about the key of G or a G Maj triad because that would give 2 different answers to your question.


Yes, the key of GMaj has one sharp-F#. The chord GMaj indicates a triad (3 notes- G-B-D) The chord GMaj7 has an F# as the seventh degree.

The chord G7 has an F natural as the 7th degree. The G7 is diatonic to(occurs naturally in) the key of C Maj. Cmaj has no #or b's.

Yes. A chord with a 7 after it indicates a dominant 7th harmony.

[CodeBlue]

This should get you going but really, +1 on getting a qualified teacher!

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/

[Larry F]

One thing that won't change is the benefit of having lightning fast recall of the major and scales, the major, minor, and diminished triads, and the seventh chords: dom. 7th, major seventh, minor seventh, m7b5, and diminished 7th. You can learn more chords than that, but these are the most common. I'm not talking about playing these per se (that is another issue), but rather knowing the notes of these chords and scales.

As a realworld benefit, let's say you are playing in the key of C, the chords C and F. If you want to hit a high note and sustain it while these chords are playing, then the note C is a good candidate. That's because both the C and F chords contain the note C. This is the type of thing that knowing the notes of the chords can help with. This is, of course, the most simple example I could think of right now. Here's a test. In the key of G, what would these chords be and what would be the note that I just described? How about applying the same principle of a common note to the chords G#m7b5 and Fm7. This is from another thread: what is the common note?

Anyway, it is fun to play around with this stuff. But first you need to have instant recall of the spellings. It is no fun to have to hunt and peck to find those notes.

[telecaster803]

Originally Posted by boneyguy

It's very useful and helpful to indicate whether you're talking about key or a chord. For example when you say " Making all the notes in G , natural... no #/b " it would make your question much clearer if you specified whether you are talking about the key of G or a G Maj triad because that would give 2 different answers to your question.


Yes, the key of GMaj has one sharp-F#. The chord GMaj indicates a triad (3 notes- G-B-D) The chord GMaj7 has an F# as the seventh degree.

The chord G7 has an F natural as the 7th degree. The G7 is diatonic to(occurs naturally in) the key of C Maj. Cmaj has no #or b's.

Yes. A chord with a 7 after it indicates a dominant 7th harmony.

I need to go into the music theory ICU...

[dangelico603]

Originally Posted by telecaster803

G Major has F# in the 7th... yet G7 uses an F natural. Making all the notes in G , natural... no #/b .

If i have that right, then arent 7th chords the same as Dominant chords?

Yes, a 7th chord is a dominant chord. I actually like talking theory so fire away. Theory isn't hard you just have to make sure you absolutely understand basics before you move on, it's very much the building block thing (if you don't have a good base then everything after is going to be shakey).

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by telecaster803

I need to go into the music theory ICU...

Basic theory is not that complicated. I understand it, so that means anyone with anything larger than my reptilian brain can get it too.

It is useful to have someone walk you through the basics. The most basic concept to understand in my opinion is that of KEY. Once you understand KEY then you can start building diatonic chords and scales.

It's not very useful to start with learning how to build scales and chords without the context that they live in which is KEY.

That's the basis. Then more complicated things like the flow of harmony(chords) in a song become easier to grasp. You can then begin to see how key or tonal centers shift within a song.

But it all starts with learning/memorizing and understanding what it means to be in a KEY and the diatonic scales and harmonies that flow out of a KEY. And luckily that turns out to be pretty simple.

[telecaster803]

I appreciate all of your comments ALOT! I bet alot of you are like me, players who had to stop somewhere in the advanced stages of your playing and learn Theory.
I do understand theory for what Theory is, meaning.. on paper. I can probably sight read standard notation better than most average players but not with a guitar in my hand. Tab i can breeze through while playing but its "paint by numbers" like Jazzbender said. I dont retain any useful information, just the licks.

This whole thread has been extremely helpful in finding exactly what the deal is and why Guitar theory escapes me. Please continue to feed information my way. My area of this state is pretty far away from any Theory teachers beng able to one on one with me so im leaning on the masters of TDPRI for HELP!

[garytelecastor]

I am still very curious as to what you are looking for. What is it exactly about theory that you want to learn?

[telecaster803]

Relating it to the fretboard mostly. Being able to use it "in flight" . Like i said, i can sit down and write a bunch of the formulas out and figure out what scales are what and stuff but as soon as i start to play guitar, it wont carry over.
I used to be a sax player. Concert trained. I wonder if thats making it hard.

[boneyguy]

Guitar College has a nice array of home study courses available. I've not taken any but they look like really good quality. If you've got a few bucks to spend I'd recommend this one. Or this one which is far more involved.

Now that I'm looking at them again it's giving me the urge to try some out. The guy who designed the courses is a real good jazz player and music educator.

Anyway, just a thought.

[telecaster803]

I may have to look into that. I have a book called Serious Guitar by Mike Hoffman that im reading now but, like the rest of the books.. they just dont sink in when im playing the guitar.
Is there a "Learn how to learn, learning guitar book" somewhere? haha

[Larry F]

Telecaster803, from reading your posts, it sounds like you read a book, but then don't know how to apply it in practice. If that is the case, maybe you can start with a few projects.

First, experiment with chord substitution. That topic is probably covered in most books. If you read about it without playing it on the guitar, then it won't necessarily make sense, since you are must manipulating symbols, not sounds. Some basic substitutions to try: vi or iii instead of I; ii for IV or vice versa; viio for V, as well as extensions of V such as 7, 9, 11, 13 and altered notes such as b5 and +9.

Second, create melodies based on chord patterns. For every chord that is played, play one of the chord tones in the melody. Try to make the melody as smooth as possible, by using common tones and moving by step.

Are these ideas too basic for you? If you find yourself stumbling because you can't find the chords or notes, then that gives you a target to shoot for.

[telecaster803]

Thats a great idea, i never thought of that . Im going to print that out and do it with guitar in hand.
Im not above anything basic at this point and i hope i never am. Actually, the more baisc the better at this point.

I highly appreciate it!