stinking repair shop

[praisegtr]

I just got my strat out of the shop. I know enough to know that it is not right but would like some more cut-throat ammunition to use against them.

They put a graphite nut on it for me. The old one had been filed down too close by the previous owner. That's the risk you run when buying off ebay. Anyway, the grooves are not deep enough on the high e & b strings. When I bend a full step on frets closer too the nut, the strings slip out of the groove & then return. Won't this cause the edge to wear down to the point that ther is no distinct groove?

Second, I had them do a routine set up as the action was a little high. When I took it in it had a wound 3rd string. When I picked it up it had a plain 3rd string. Won't the intonation be off when I return to using my preferred strings?

Third, the afore mentioned 3rd string BUZZES horribly!!!!

Why did I take this Fender dealer my new toy so they could keep it for 3 1/2 weeks for shotty work I could do at home in 2 hours??????

highly frustrated!!

Any tips on dealing with these knuckleheads?

[Soapbarstrat]

Ask them to give you a refund, or make the guitar RIGHT, or you'll post who they are on several internet sites. I'd like to know who they are.

The strings should not pop out of the nut and none of the strings should buzz, and yes, changing to an unwound 3rd is not setting up the guitar with your preferred string gauge.

Some of these shops kill me, cuz some of those guys think they are better "luthiers" than me, cuz I don't work in a retail store (mainly so I don't have to hang out with clowns like that all day)

[telemann51]

Originally Posted by praisegtr

They put a graphite nut on it for me. The old one had been filed down too close by the previous owner. That's the risk you run when buying off ebay. Anyway, the grooves are not deep enough on the high e & b strings. When I bend a full step on frets closer too the nut, the strings slip out of the groove & then return. Won't this cause the edge to wear down to the point that ther is no distinct groove?

That's a poorly made nut. The strings should never slip out of the slot. They should make that right. Show them what happens. If they quibble, then they are charlatans and should be exposed as such.

One thing to watch out for: they might just file the slots deeper without taking into account the rest of the setup. This might make the nut slots too deep. You'd know this from the buzzing you'd get when you play an open string.

Second, I had them do a routine set up as the action was a little high. When I took it in it had a wound 3rd string. When I picked it up it had a plain 3rd string. Won't the intonation be off when I return to using my preferred strings?

In short, yes. Most electric guitars are strung with plain third strings. This is not a major issue. They should make it good, though.

Third, the afore mentioned 3rd string BUZZES horribly!!!!

Why did I take this Fender dealer my new toy so they could keep it for 3 1/2 weeks for shotty work I could do at home in 2 hours??????

Possibly because they advertised their expertise. Now they need to make good. Give them that chance. One hint: don't talk to the repair guys before you talk to the store manager.

Any tips on dealing with these knuckleheads?

Give them a chance to make it good. Deal with the store manager or owner. I've never found a truly dishonest one but they might have hired someone who isn't quite as qualified as they said they were.

[Rob DiStefano]

This should be a no-brainer - your g'tar was serviced, you're not happy with the results, take it immediately back to the store owner or manager and get what you paid for in the first place. Nut cutting isn't rocket science, but you do need to know what yer doing and have the proper experience - in your case, the person that cut your g'tar's nut sounds like he hasn't graduated Nut Cutting 101 - yet. YMMV.

[stantheman]

very possibly the most important part of the "feel" when you play. plus, you're the only one who knows what's perfect for you...they don't know...they ain't you!!!
I've had fabulous success with the Graph Tech Tusq which is a pre-cut man made ivory that ships to you for about 12 buckeroos and if I didn't pay so much for "the
bone" on my Strat I'd change that too!!!!! seriously the graph tech sounds WAY BETTER. The only thing you do
is file it down to the height YOU want it to be. I would never consider letting even a skilled shop guy guy do my
nut again, it's too much Moolah and does not sound as good as the Tusq. you really should learn to do this stuff
yourself it's actually fun and gives you a feeling of accomplishment. Dan Erlewines' book geetar repair is THE place to start....you've been missin' a lotta fun and you don't know it.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by stantheman

very possibly the most important part of the "feel" when you play. plus, you're the only one who knows what's perfect for you...they don't know...they ain't you!!!
I've had fabulous success with the Graph Tech Tusq which is a pre-cut man made ivory that ships to you for about 12 buckeroos and if I didn't pay so much for "the
bone" on my Strat I'd change that too!!!!! seriously the graph tech sounds WAY BETTER. The only thing you do
is file it down to the height YOU want it to be. I would never consider letting even a skilled shop guy guy do my
nut again, it's too much Moolah and does not sound as good as the Tusq. you really should learn to do this stuff
yourself it's actually fun and gives you a feeling of accomplishment. Dan Erlewines' book geetar repair is THE place to start....you've been missin' a lotta fun and you don't know it.

There are only four main nut concerns - material, slot spacing, slot depth, nut cutting chops.

Material - subjective at best as there are lotsa good nut materials to choose.

Slot Spacing - somewhat subjective as the max spacing is limited to the fretboard width at the nut ... this is a choice and you simply tell your luthier what you want, or what you think you want, or just leave it up to him/her ... again, this isn't rocket science and most g'tarsts won't even perceive minute variations in slot spacing ... NOTE: max slot spacing is at the mercy of how steep the fret end angles are cut, not the fingerboard width!

Slot Depth - the best slot depth is where the resulting nut relief is acceptably small ... that is, the distance between the top of the first fret and the bottom of a string when the string is fretted at the second fret ... nut relief should be minimal and never non-existant (where there is no nut relief at all).

Cutting Mechanics - there's more to nut cutting than the three items listed above, just as there's more to making music than understanding what notes to play.

In essence, aside from the nut material itself, there aren't many different variables to slot spacing and slot depth for a given g'tar neck width at the nut. It's pretty much a given just what the slot spacing and depth need to be for a given g'tar. Any competent nut cutter, that has proper nut cutting chops, would have NO problem setting up a nut properly for any given guitar without knowing anything about the g'tarist.

Finally, about nuts with pre-cut slots - yes, sometimes they work just fine and are the right width, with a decent slot spacing, and the slots are pre-cut to the proper depth to allow good nut relief for the g'tar the nut's intended for ... if not, it's simply not a good nut and you need to modify it ... most likely the issue of slot depth will need to be addressed, so - do you have the proper nut files to recut slots lower? do you know how to properly increase the height of a nut slot (you'll still need nut files!)? do you know how to use a nut file, or are willing to learn? IMO, chances of a pre-cut nut fitting *absolutely perfectly* aren't good at all, unfortunately. YMMV.

[genelovesjez]

The store that does my guitar work is very good - when they don't get it just right, they fix it. Usually on the spot and for no additional charge. That is the type of service you should expect. On the other hand, there are stores around that I have just learned to stay away from. I consider the money I spent there to be market research. From the sounds of your experience, you've found a store you should stay away from - they messed up on some pretty basic things. You can try to find restitution with these guys, but I would be inclined to put a period on it and look for a tech you can rely on.

[Pedalworld]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

There are only four main nut concerns - material, slot spacing, slot depth, nut cutting chops.

Slot Depth - the best slot depth is where the resulting nut relief is acceptably small...

Cutting Mechanics - there's more to nut cutting than the (the) items listed above, just as there's more to making music than understanding what notes to play.

GREAT POST!!! I believe that the nut is the least understood - but most important factor in a guitar set.

Previously, I would have work done at a shop then have to tweak it myself....just got to where my tweaking became better and just did it all myself.

Hey "praisegtr", I would write the issues down about the set up and strings and take it to the manager. But take a few deep breaths andn be nice and relaxed before you go in.

Over 3 weeks for a nut is insane ~you could buy three nuts, tools and practice / teach yourself in about 90 minutes.

[praisegtr]

Thanks for all the insight! I took it back and remained calm. Too calm in fact. I don't think he understood how irritated I was the day before.

I bought Dan Erlewine's book. Its not a light read. Probably be a while before I have the confidence & the opportunity to put much of it to use.


Thanks again for the back up!! I knew I wasn't expecting an unreasonable amount from these guys.

[Pedalworld]

Originally Posted by praisegtr

I bought Dan Erlewine's book. Its not a light read. Probably be a while before I have the confidence & the opportunity to put much of it to use.

What do they charge for a nut? 30~40 dollars?

That will get you started with a few files.
Go to a pawnshop and buy the cheapest nastiesty thing you see and try making a new nut for it.

[Kevin]

I use the TUSQ pre-slotted nuts, too -- because I like the material and the spacing of the slots.

I've never had one, though, that worked perfectly in any of my guitars. For one thing, the TUSQ nuts are radiused at 9.5" and are 1 11/16" wide. Only one of my guitars has that combination -- most of mine are 7 1/4" radius and 1 5/8" nut width. Every time I've used one of these nuts, I've had to file the sides to fit the slots. On some, I've had to cut the tab (if it was a curved slot) and on others I've had to file the bottom of the nut.

On every one, again, I've had to deepen the slots and file the tops. I'd probably be as well off to just buy a blank, since I have to alter the TUSQ nuts so much, but, as I said, I like having the spacing pre-cut as a guide.

[Soapbarstrat]

Like the other Rob (my name's Rob too), I don't think getting a pro set-up nut is very D.I.Y friendly, but if you have the motivation to do it, no one can stop you. It's a very easy thing to practice on though, cuz, you can make a nut, mess it up, pull it out, try a new one, round and round we go.

Get some 1/8" plexi for a Fender or 1/4" or abouts for you Gibson cult members, and make a real cheap plexi nut, that you can practice getting the slots just right. Then when, and if, that turns out, you can get the magical mystery nut material that costs $5.00 each or whatever.

The proper tools are the problem for the average player who is only going to own a few guitars.

But you can get away with just buying files for the first 3 or 4 string slots, and for the bigger slots, I even prefer to clamp a piece of sandpaper around a small metal dowel or feeler gauge with a small door hinge with screws and bolts to squeeze the sandpaper firmly around the dowel or feeler gauge.

I want to try out that "slip stone" material, but I heard it's "hard to cut". Would like more details about that.

One big mistake many make (I did it myself many years back) is to cut the nut-slots with the guitar laying on the bench with a neck support under the neck. Then if you file them as low as you think they can go, they end up being TOO low when the guitar is held in the playing position. I actually prefer to do the nut when I have a neck "frozen" in the playing position on my neck-jig.

Before you start adjusting the nut slots, you should capo the strings at the first fret and set your string height at the bridge correctly. I often go back and forth, re-checking the string height at the bridge and sometimes adjusting it again, before getting the nut slots to their final depth. You also need to have the neck relief set properly FIRST.

Japanese "feather edge" file is great for the high E slot. Been using one for 16 years. Also have the Grobet .010" nut file, but it breaks on it's own. Temper temper.