Strats, why?

[JohnnyCrash]

I hope this doesn't start a war...

I love Telecasters, and just about any Gibson model... I want to make sure I'm covering all of my bases tonally for the studio, so from time to time I have bought a Strat, only to sell it after being very disatisfied (gone through 4 or 5).

The music by guys who played Teles or Gibsons I enjoy, while those who play strats, even the great players, I never have enjoyed (OK except Jimi). I even dislike SRV's *tone* (I know it's almost blasphemy)... Clapton's tone of the Bluesbreakers album was awesome (Les Paul), but on the Layla sessions it was terrible (to me, again, no wars here).

Duck-clucky tones and whimpy "springy" sounds seem to be the Strat's only forte - something I do not like, want, or need.

Personal taste notwithstanding... there HAS TO BE SOME EXAMPLES OF A GREAT CLASSIC STRAT SOUND I HAVE MISSED. The guitar is legendary and a best-seller...

CAN ANYONE CONVICE ME OF THE STRAT'S USEFULLNESS AND GREATNESS?

I love guitars (catalogs are almost porn, I'm sure you ALL understand that), so I'm almost *looking* for an excuse to buy a Strat!

It may simply be an issue of taste, but I'm sure some of you guys could sway me... perhaps a *specific model* (I may have been buying the wrong Strats over the years).

[Mark Davis]

First off its not the guitar that makes the music its the person playing it.

Maybe this is easier to understand this way.

Rembrandt and Picasso probably used the same type of brush when they painted their paintings but each persons paintings look completly different from each other yet they both used a brush and the same paint type.

Listen to Mark Knopfler he sounds good on Strats Les Pauls Teles and acoustics.

[Kevin]

This topic: why?

Nothing useful or informative here. Peope buy strats cos they like them. If you don't like them, don't buy one.

Simple.

Anytime you start a post with:

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

I hope this doesn't start a war...

you obviously think that it might. Thus, it might be best to avoid the topic, altogether.

Personally, I prefer a good strat to most teles. Do I feel the need to convince/persuade you to see my point of view? No.

[chickenpicker]

Until I acquired my tele, which is great, I had used a 1979 strat for many years. A fine guitar with a "dark" sound - I know it's hard to explain, but dark is the best word I can think of.

It's still a great guitar, and I continue to use it. The sound is different than my tele, but not worse. Just different.

[0le FUZZY]

<li>The Stratocaster iss prolly the most copied lectric guitar roun.
<li>Very inovative from Leo and the gang and very comfortable tew play.
<li>Knott my cup of tew but it duz hold a very special place in American guitar production history.
<li>There issa reason they are still top sellers in Fenner's production line.

CAN ANYONE CONVICE ME OF THE STRAT'S USEFULLNESS AND GREATNESS?

<li>NOPE !! but I am cornvinced that it iss boff of those thangs.

0le FUZZY

[Wild Rice Chris]

Everytime I listen to Rory Gallagher's album, Live in Europe, I want to buy a strat to try again (I've owned dozens, and none of them stay). I eventually realised that I just don't like to play strats much.

http://rorygallagher.com/html/liveineurope.htm

I now know that the strat tones I like can be had in a good tele, but I haven't found the tele tones in a strat. To each their own, I suppose.

[maestrovert]

3 words for ya:
Bridge of Sighs

seriously, the tone Robin Trower achieved on this one track is quite enough to cement his place in the Hall of Fame all by itself !
it's one of the most purely thrilling sounds i've ever heard, and it still moves me. i was priviliged to hear it live once also, not 20 feet from his amps.that tone is round, full and deep, gritty and clean and SINGS!!!!
if you've never heard the track, please give it a listen(actually the whole album's good too)
and play it loud....no, play it REAL LOUD !
;-)

'course, it's jest m.h.o.

[JohnnyCrash]

Mark Knopfler, come to think of it, I do like his sounds on Les Pauls AND Strats (Thanks Mark!).

Sorry if I pissed you off Kevin. I did not mean to. It may just be as simple as you suggest, it simply may not be "my cup of tea".

Ole Fuzzy, those reason's you list are exactly why I felt I may be "missing out". As usual your unique language and info was enjoyable. Thanks!

chickenpicker that made plenty of sense to me. Dark, good description. Thanks!

Wild Rice Chris and maestrovert - thanks for the homework. I've heard OF them guys, but have NOT heard them as of yet. Any other info on what those guys played their Strats through?

Also, sorry maestrovert for the previous "snip" at you in another thread. You're a true gentleman.

WHAT MODEL STRAT WOULD YOU GUYS SUGGEST? The pickup selection stock from Fender is if-y and the quality is confusing (American have better fretwork etc).

[Wild Rice Chris]

And oh boy, do I respect that opinion--My introduction to Bridge of Sighs was when a band my dad and brother were in covered it, and also did another one from that album, I forget which. I went and bought the CD right away.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

CAN ANYONE CONVICE ME OF THE STRAT'S USEFULLNESS AND GREATNESS?

If Clapton, Beck, Guy, Knopfler, Gilmor, and many others haven't done that, then I must agree with Kevin that a Strat might not be for you.

That's perfectly ok, though.

I, for example, have spent a lot of time fixing my friend's Strats and I've worked on some real beauties, in terms of quality and cosmetics, but they feel so uncomfortable that I just can't still play the damn things!

Les Pauls? SG's? nope, and nope. No ZZ top or AC/DC for me either.

But that's just me, not the instrument.

[Andre']

I like strats and there sound a lot, but I don't play them in my music cause I don't use a quack sound. Also, I like the asthetics of a tele more. But as far as not being able to play them cause of the feel? Isn't most of the guitar's feel in the neck? When your playing your guitar, holding the neck, not the body. If I wanted to have a strat sound in my music I would just have Rob build me one with my specs. I feel that if you use quack, you shouldn't turn back! So be a tele man or be a strat man. At least that's how I feel about it.[/quote]

[jazzrat]

Not many people still follow AL Stewart but he has always had fine sidemen with great strat tones.
For instance on "Year of the Cat" and The Dark and Rolling Sea" Beautiful, round, tones. Tim Renwick, Peter White and Stewart Cowell I think were the players

[Mark Davis]

WHAT MODEL STRAT WOULD YOU GUYS SUGGEST? The pickup selection stock from Fender is if-y and the quality is confusing (American have better fretwork etc).

The ones I like are these.

Vintage Player Strat MIM USA hardware TX pickups
Robert Cray Strat MIM best pickups
Jimmie Vaughan Strat MIM with all USA hardware
50's-60's Classic MIM great for the $$.

The only USA one I would consider would be the new Eric Johnson. I have owned 4 expensive Custom Shop Strats and found you can buy the 4 x's less expensive MIM models change the pickups and basicly have the same or better sound.

[Ian]

Check out "Ah Via Musicom" ,lots of Eric's "1000lb Voilin" tone. Sure there's Es-335,one Acoustic track,and one Tele tune,but Eric Johnson's Strat tones are HUGE!!!
CHEERS!!!

[Jimo]

I hear you about Trower. I remember laying on the floor with "Daydream" cranked through the headphones and I think I "left" my body for 5 minutes--whew baby!----------had that Univibe whirlin'------cheers!----JIMO

[Montana_Dawg]

Trower- Too Rollin' Stoned

Blackmore- Smoke on the Water, Child In Time, Stargazer, Man on the Silver Mountain, Highway Star.

Gilmour- Time, Another Brick in the Wall, pt.2, Comfortably Numb

Knopfler- Sultans of Swing

Clapton- Cocaine

J.J. Cale- Call Me the Breeze

Tony Joe White- Polk Salad Annie, Even Trolls Love Rock and Roll

Jeff Beck- Rollin' and Tumblin'...makes the wah and whammy bar sound awesome together

SRV- everything

Jimi- everything

ad infinitum

[TexGoneNW]

I'm a Gibson guy from way back who is grabbing a Tele for every gig now.

I have spent over thirty years going into music stores and picking up almost every guitar that interested me to see if it was going to turn me on more than another guitar I already had.

I started playing on a non-reverse Gibson Firebird I, and have been a fool for P-90's most of my playing life. I eventually traded that Firebird and an SG Jr. with a HUGE FAT neck and a dog-ear P-90 plus cash for my Les Paul Pro prototype that was the first guitar I bought new. I still wish I had the SG Jr., but the Firebird was really a tough guitar to gig with, and the Les Paul Pro was my gigging guitar through college (probably why my shoulder/back is bad on that side, what a boat anchor!).

I bought my '71 Tele in 1980 on lay away when it had blue exterior latex on it and nobody was buying used Tele's, and it's still my favorite gig axe for what I'm playing nowdays (blues). Long intro is over, now for the point:

Only recently have I picked up a Daphne Blue MIJ 50th anniversary Strat with a rosewood board that I like. I had TRIED to like Strat's many times, and the rosewood board ones seem to be the only ones that have ever, ever had the siren's call. Even then, I have only played less than a handful that have made me consider buying one.

The one I have, it's shown me that the Strat has its place. The pups aren't as strong, but they're musical.

I used to think the only Strat I'd like would be hardtail, but I like Tele's better for that tone (have the '71, a Vintage Reissue, and recently aquired an Esquire - maybe a throwback to the SG Jr. love, but it has its own thang going). I've always naturally gravitated to a guitar that sustains well without being plugged in, and the Strat's with tremelo just don't do that. They're more percussive, and that's part of the Strat thang. I adapt how I play a little bit when I play a Strat for that reason.

The Strat is the #2 guitar on the blues gigs, and I'm carrying two Fenders mainly because the other guy who occasionally plays guitar has the humbucking sound covered.

If I carried three, I'd rotate a Gibson (maybe with P-90's), a Tele, and a Strat.

[scot]

I love Strats. Especially my super beat up 1972. It should be noted that Hendrix mostly played a Strat for two reasons. It had a wang bar, but more importantly, it was a double cutaway! For a guy playing upside-down guitars...that was key. Imagine playing a Les Paul ass end up? Or a Tele? Couldn't reach the high frets as easily as a Stratocaster..that is for sure. In the end...it was and is...all about the fingers and the heart.

[JohnnyCrash]

This has been an interesting response. THANKS GUYS!

TexGoneNW, I may be in the same boat as you. I am probably mostly all Gibson. The Telecaster is such a close second that I could survive a house/studio fire as long as I've still got my reissue Les Paul 57 Custom, AND my Telecaster - either of them gets burned I'd be devastated.

Blackmore, PinkFloyd, all of them guys are GREAT, and I am a fan of the music, but the tone is still lacking to *my tastes* and uses.

I am a heavy bluesman as well, so I think TexGoneNW's posting hits ME closest to home... I cannot get enough P90s... I was even looking into a P90 Strat briefly... unfortunately I dislike alot of Strat blues sounds/tones (don't hate me).

That being said, I still cannot bring myself to go out and buy a Strat... I did try (what I think was) a '66 reissue (Closet Classic series). I loved the neck.

It just must be a personal taste kind of thing.

JIMI HENDRIX
Jimi is associated with Strats, but he did use Flying Vs as well - perhaps the easy access and whammy bar was the attraction there as well. Jimi is a guitar great, but I'm not into that kind of tone... he was more into effects and textures, etc. Let's face it, he also used 40 foot COILED cable (effectively making the cables' run longer than actual applicable length) and plugged into effects... tone loss was not a huge concern (or perhaps not as well known as it is today), especially high end/Treble.

I'm more of a "plug and play" kind of guy (no effects, accept the occasional wah pedal)... for that, Telecasters and Gibsons are touch-responsive, distinctly characteristic, have more sustain (than Strats), and are full of tone... the Strat's vibrato does have more range than any Bigsby though - if the bar was an issue to me (like it was for Jimi).

NO KNOCK TO THE STRAT PLAYERS, new and old. I guess a Strat just isn't for me, personally. Different strokes for different folks. Thanks everyone for helping me out!

[TexGoneNW]

I was a teenager who went to Armadillo World Headquarters to see the Electromagnets when they'd open for other acts that nobody came to see...

One time I was in South Austin Music, or the store that it was back then (on South Lamar with the other store with the suit of armor out front). When I could drive, I'd go to Austin and hit all of the stores.

This was back when EJ was playing an ES-335 pretty much exclusively.

There he was, looking all Jeff Beck-ish, trying out Strats. Heck, he may have picked up an old sunburst then (that's what he was trying out).

I knew he had a rep back then, but I kept out of his face. Heck, he was just there doing what I was doing, and we were both busy!

Jimmie Vaughn, Anson Funderburgh, and bunches of other guys I like get their tone with Strats, so I don't mind trying to nail that sound by having one. When a SRV tune is called for, I can't help but grab that Strat in a hurry. A good 'un to have in the arsenal, and I'm glad I finally found one I liked and was in a position to pick it up. Really, only maybe three or four others in the whole time I've looked, and I think there's a real art to setting them up (not simple, IMHO).

[RevMike]

....finding the right one. I've had a few Strats over the years, but was never crazy about them. I always thought the were cool looking, great sounding guitars, but they just didn't feel right. Until a few months ago, I was visiting my family in NC, and I picked up a nice, plain white standard Strat. It just felt good in my hands. Plugged it in, sounded great. So, I grabbed it. It is now shares equal time with my #1 Tele. I love my Strat and don't think I'd ever give it up.

[photoweborama]

I like mine. It makes sounds my Tele can't. but my Tele makes sounds my Stat can't.

My strat has the best neck+middle tone I've heard. If for anything, that makes it worth it.

[stevieboy]

Ronnie Earl and Anson Funderburgh get some pretty good blues out of strats

[moonshiner]

Steve Howe from Yes was also a strat guy... though he used lots of things, I have seen him mostly on strats... (Don't look very often... )

I own a 74 Strat... it's not a ducky strat... It doesn't quack.. Mostly because of the pickups and addition electronics...

Quackless Strat

Find a strat that feels right and then experiment with the pickups and electronics until it produces a sound that you enjoy.. if not... Don't use one...

[Sarge]

Man, I don't know what strats you been playin' but if you pick a good one up and it ain't there you're best to stick with Gibsons or teles. Many a guitar that I don't like still sounds great when played thru a good amp. Maybe thats your problem? I think ANY guitar sounds good if you can play. Tone is in the fingers and soul.

[SinnerBoy61]

Originally Posted by Wild Rice Chris

Everytime I listen to Rory Gallagher's album, Live in Europe, I want to buy a strat to try again (I've owned dozens, and none of them stay). I eventually realised that I just don't like to play strats much.

http://rorygallagher.com/html/liveineurope.htm

The Irish Tour '74 album has to be my favorite...a '61 Strat through a '58 (I believe) Bassman. :) "Calling Card" was good as well, but more towards the rock scheme of things. Check them both out ;)

[maestrovert]

'jes my humble 2 cents....
i believe one of the secrets to GREAT Strat tone is in the bridge set up....mine are set up thus:
remove strings and springs, and laying the guitar flat on the bench, loosen the 6 screws at front of bridge plate, so the plate lays flat on the body....
one at a time, tighten the 6 bridge screws so they just BARELY begin to lift the rear (bottom) of the plate up off the body, then back off of the screw JUST until the plate again lays flat....continue for all screws.
restring and respring, i personally use a "fair" amount of tension with 4 springs, so the plate stays tight to the body for maximum tone transfer and tuning stability in case of a broken string.

The springy "sproing" sound some Strats have is due to string energy being robbed....Strats do not necessarily "quack" when tone transfer to the body is maximized...sustain is enhanced too !

i rarely if ever use the # 2 or 4 position on my 5way equipped Strats, preferring either the neck or bridge Pups all by their lonesome !

one BIG secret to good tone with any guitar is: it's voice, how it sounds acoustically, unplugged in a quiet room.....
if it doesn't sound good without an amp, it'll NEVER sound great with one ....i choose my guitars for their "voice", and do not buy sight unseen.....

Hope this helps ya Johnny !
as always, 'jes my humble 2 cents

[chickenpicker]

Mine's set up thus:

All 6 screws down tight.

All springs pulled tight back.

Don't even think about whammy, or the body will crack (due to the tight screws).

I found a long time ago that I didn't really use the whammy, so disabled it. More sustain, and better tuning stability. If I want to bend a note down, then a bit of forwards pressure behind the neck usually suffices!


There was the one gig, though, when the guitar went way out of tune - yup, the neck screws had worked very slightly loose!

[JohnnyCrash]

You know, just about every Strat I tried had little or no "unplugged" resonance.

Maybe the key is picking out the right one.

"Quackless" options, pickup swaps, etc... the Strats I DID OWN, were really fun to work on due to the pickup, switch, and knob configuration... alot of CUSTOMIZING OPTIONS are available... "hotrodding" is written all over Strats!

It ain't my amps, I'll tell you that much. And claiming it's my fingers or skill is not safe territory to tread with anybody on a guitar forum :)

I may hunt for a good, resonant, cheap MIM Standard and go from there... it does seem like a personal taste sort of thing, so I'm sure it still won't get alot of mileage for MY TASTES, but having a guitar you don't already have, may just be the thing a track (or layered track) might just need one day.

[lenny]

i found a cool strat, and since then i have grown to love it almost as much as my tele's.
why?
quack, of course. nuthin like it on any other guitar
it's very comfortable
the whammy bar is fun and gives a cool effect if used tastefully
the bridge pup sounds good for distorted rock and roll.
neck pup does a really nice overdriven blues sound.
it twangs pretty damn well, and if i closed my eyes and made it less comfortable i could almost fool myself it's a tele on the bridge pup. *almost*
probably most importantly, i found a cool old early 80's mij that i paid $100 dollars for off a guy i work with. it needed work, but for another 100 i have an awesome strat. i feel bonded to it, like i rescued it :P

which off the shelf strat? i'd definitely go jimmy vaughan for the cool wiring scheme and the fat v neck (no tone on middle pup)
anyway, good luck on your strat search

[e-merlin]

Most of my "influences" are Strat players, so I do like Strats. I'm Tele first, though. I mostly use a Strat for the in between tones. I prefer the Tele's bridge pickup tone. However, lately I've been trying to cop Brian "Too Loud" MacLeod's tone from his last two albums with Chilliwack. To me it is the definitive Rock and Roll Strat tone. I don't know who his influences were but I sure would like to!

[TeleH00]

Personally, I LOVE strats, they just feel wierd to me. I own one strat, don't play it out. Teles just do it for me.
Tone to the Bone bros!!

[GUITARmole]

I may hunt for a good, resonant, cheap MIM Standard and go from there...

I didn't know such a thing existed! :D

Seriously, good Strats are few and far between (much rarer than good Teles IMO). I'd save your money for a really nice Strat or stick to Teles!

Go to a music store and play a Strat with an ash body, vintage style neck, and good pickups (Fender CS, Fralin, Lollar, etc). There's really no point in saying you don't like Stratocasters UNLESS you've played a really good one (Vintage, Cunetto Fender, CS Relic, etc). If you have played a "good" one and still don't like them, so be it! Maybe you just don't like Strats.

[TexGoneNW]

You don't have to go top dollar to find a good Strat.

The Jimmie Vaughan line has been touted as a great "bang per buck" Strat, and I've found the build quality on MIJ Fenders to be very, very good.

[GUITARmole]

You don't have to go top dollar to find a good Strat

Agreed! I've jumped the Fender ship and have replaced them with Parts-O-Casters for much le$$ than an equivalent CS guitar.

Still, you're not going to find tone nirvana with a 5pc MIM body in my opinion.

Some of the MIJs are good guitars though!

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Personal taste notwithstanding... there HAS TO BE SOME EXAMPLES OF A GREAT CLASSIC STRAT SOUND I HAVE MISSED. The guitar is legendary and a best-seller...

CAN ANYONE CONVICE ME OF THE STRAT'S USEFULLNESS AND GREATNESS?

Wow.

You're over the age of twelve, right? And you're familiar with the playlist of Classic Rock radio stations (while certainly not exclusively, but plenty of Strats there)?

If the answer to both these questions is "yes", then the answer to your question is probably "no".

[refin]

Originally Posted by jazzrat

Not many people still follow AL Stewart but he has always had fine sidemen with great strat tones.
For instance on "Year of the Cat" and The Dark and Rolling Sea" Beautiful, round, tones. Tim Renwick, Peter White and Stewart Cowell I think were the players

I was going to say the same thing.Ditto on "Bridge Of Sighs" by Trower.Andy Fairweathe Low is good too.
Another fine strat player who doesn't get much mention is Ed King on the early Skynyrd albums,especially "Second Helping."
I know,burned out "Sweet Home Alabama",but what phrasing and tone.Jeff Beck has also been known to wrangle a strat into uncharted territory.

[refin]

Also.........a little unknown tidbit.
Albert Lee played a strat when he toured with Clapton ("Just One Night") and played and sounded great....his be-boppish solo on "Further On Up The Road" is a masterpiece.

[JohnnyCrash]

Yes, I am over the age of twelve, haha.

Like I mentioned... I know plenty of GREAT guitarplayers have played Strats. MY PROBLEM is not them or their great songs, MY PROBLEM IS their sound.

EXAMPLE
Clapton is a perfect example, the Bluesbreakers album had incredible guitar tone, but Clapton's guitar-SOUND on Derek and the Dominos - Layla was terrible! I enjoy the music, though.

Hendrix got a *workable* tone, but then again in the studio and with all of the effects... not really the kind of music I play. SRV was awesome, BUT the overall guitar sound wasn't to my liking.

I was saying somehow I might have missed a Strat sound that was not thin, quacky, and weak... but DUH, that's a Strat's appeal, the "Strat sound" - so the Strat just isn't for me.

As a Tele-freak, I figured I should try to do Fender justice and get a Strat. Now I know where I really stand on Strats... SO, I wired my Tele with a middle pickup... just in case I ever need to fake with a Strat middle - you know, like for jams, or something :)

[maestrovert]

you've not yet heard Robin Trower's track "Bridge of Sighs" from the album of the same name ? your description of "thin, quacky and weak" most definitely does NOT apply !
opposite of your stated preference Johnny, i generally find the tones of dual-coil "humbucker" equipped guitars too dull, blurry, dead and muddy.... i for one much prefer the distinct tones of Teles and Strats, as the harmonic make up of the notes rings through better ....there's just sumpin' 'bout that clean, crystalline bell like quality of their tone that's so much more "musical sounding" than humbuckers.......but that's jes me.....
but i think i'd be willing to bet that most others here would find that Tele and Strat tones also "sit in the mix" better too!

of course, judicious use of the tone controls on fine guitar amps does wonders for one's tone no matter which type/brand of guitar being played.....

jes' M.H.O.