Deluxe vs. Standard

[jtpal25]

I'm looking to purchase a new American Strat. I played a Deluxe yesterday and thought it sounded pretty sweet. I really liked the s-1 switch.

I would like to hear everyone's opinion on the comparison between the two. Anyone really like one or the other a lot more? What are some reasons? I need some input.

Thanks

[flyingbanana]

I have a deluxe v neck...and swapped out the stock pickups/wiring with Lollar Blackfaces. The stock pickups and S1 switch seemed cool at the store, but after about 6 months of playing it, I learned a little bit about tone, and they don't have any...to my ears.

[jtpal25]

does the s-1 switching work well with the lollar blackfaces?

[PCR985]

I have an Am Ash Dlx w/ the S-1.

I think the Lollar Blackfaces are straight up vintage style single coils. These will not work well with the S-1. Part of the S-1 switches between Serial and Parallel pup combinations. I don't think you can do this w/ pups that only have two wires.

IMHO: flyingbanana is right. It started out being cool... then I learned a little bit about tone, and I yanked the whole setup out and installed Fralin VH w/ regular pots and switches.

But now, I have re-wired everything and the S-1 is back in. I've gone to a Dimarzio Tone Zone bridge and SCN's Mids and Neck (pilfered from my 57VHR). The basic problems that I set out to resolve was: Toneless SCN pup and muffled sounding S-1 switch engaged.

Here's a quick summary of my mod============================

The tiny 'special' capcitor in the S-1 switch is a:
iC 503Z cap

This is a REALLY cheap cap. It's basically a 0.05uf cap w/ a designed tolerance of +80% / -20%. Yup, you read that right. This cap can be anywhere between 0.09uf to 0.04uf at any given time.

The regular tone cap is a 0.022uf (+/- 10%) cap.

Personally, I think the SCN's sound ALOT better with a 0.047uf (or 0.033uf). A slightly darker cap takes a lot of the shrilly sound out and restores a lot more tone that's hard to dial out w/ the stock 0.022uf cap.

I ended up replacing the tone cap with a 0.047uf cap and the special tone cap w/ a 0.33uf cap (I just went w/ what I had a the time).

The result ================================

To be honest with you, if I didn't have other strats, I would not have kept the S-1 rig. The whole S-1, SCN's and ToneZones thing doesn't really fit my preference for a vintage woody strat sound.

However, the with this new setup, my DLX has turned into to my guitar of choice for hard rock or use with distortion pedals. This guitar sounds good when I want to really hit the front of my amp, or plug into a pedal. With more consistent caps, the tone controls now actually do something, and I can get a nice compressed tone when I engage the button.

One last recommendation: IMHO, the SCN's need a really small treble bleed cap. Something smaller than the usuall 0.001uf cap (I use a 0.000024uf [24pf] cap). The SCN's sound much better with a larger tone cap, but for whatever reason, the sound instantly goes to muddy when you roll down the volume. A really small treble bleed cap prevents this (I thought the 0.001uf cap made rolling the volume down sound 'weird'; you really need something smaller).


This is probably a lot more information than you were looking for....

[flyingbanana]

Originally Posted by jtpal25

does the s-1 switching work well with the lollar blackfaces?

I'm not sure. But personally, if I had to do it again, I would probably get an American Standard. The pickups in that guitar are reasonably quiet and you'll get some good strat tone without the extra 200 to 500 bucks depending where you get that deluxe.

On the other hand, I had to have the deluxe, because the neck feels exquisite in my hands. I love the feel and the guitar just rings out for days when unplugged.

Good luck...

[Michaell]

For me the Clapton circuitry is my prefered electronics on a strat.

If you like a w-i-d-e variety of tones from which to select, get the S-1 gizmo.

Having said that I can get a TON of tonal variations ( and others do too ) with standard strat electronics.

[jtpal25]

PCR985, that's not too much information, there's no such thing as too much.

Flying Banana, you're right. The V-neck is so sweet to play. I'm thinking that I'll get the deluxe and go from there. It seems to be built like a tank and I just gotta have the V-neck!!!

I'll be open to pickup suggestions if I don't end up liking the SCNs.

Thanks for you input.

[PCR985]

I really depends on what you like and the guitar.

My DLX is a heavy Ash Dlx. I've tried about 5 different sets of pickups in it.

At first, I tried Vintage style pups in it to get a woody clean tone out of it. (2 different sets of WCR's, Fralin VH's, 57/62). These pups sounded great in my other strats, but they just didn't sound right in the Dlx. Hard to explain, but this Dlx just felt heavier and more solid, than my other strats.

I finally decided to take this guitar in the opposite direction: something with higher gain. The SCN's went back in w/ 0.047 cap, cranked up the pup height, and ran it through a pedal. This was a step in the right direction.

A few weeks later, I wired up the pups from my 57 VHR to my S-1 harness, and swap out the caps as I listed above. The Dimarzio TZ, that I hated in the 57VHR sounds awesome in the Dlx. This setup w/ the modded S-1 switch LOVES gain, and a heafty guitar.

Plugged into my Timmy then into my PRRI, this guitar screams, bucks and squeals all night. It's a tone that I can't get out of any of the other guitars. I can't explain it, it just works in this solid, heavy ash body. But, when I roll back the gain and clean it up, this guitar has a big piano tone. Almost like a LP; which is kinda erie.... I was gassing for an LP, and had considered selling this guitar to fund the LP gas. Now, my LP gas has been satisfied by my Dlx.

[jtpal25]

Thanks guys. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the deluxe.

[Zeppelanoid]

I think it ultimately comes down to noiseless vs. non-noiseless pickups.

I often find noiseless pickups lacking that special "it" factor. Kind of dull and lifeless to me. But that's me. Tons of people love noiseless pickups and that's why they exist.