How to keep a strat in tune?

[Tony Reid]

I would like some advice on how to keep a strat with a vintage tremolo in tune. I use a Callaham unit. I do a lot of string bending and I also like to use the trem to lower the pitch of a note (like a reverse kind of bend). So far I find I can do one or the other, but not both; otherwise the guitar tends to go out of tune. I know some people recommend doing a quick dip with the tremolo after bending a note, but I find this a little too distracting when I am doing a solo. When tuning I tune up to the note after giving a quick dip with the trem. I have the unit adjusted flat on the guitar body so that it will only lower the note.
However, at this point I have simply given up and have the 5 springs adjusted very tight so it doesn't move and the tremolo arm is in the draw.
Is it possible to set up a vintage tremolo so that you can bend notes and also dip with the trem? Or should I build a strat no. 2 with a Floyd Rose unit?
Any advice would be appreciated.... Boris?...Mellecaster?...

[wolfman63]

I've installed a graphite nut, and not used the string trees on the headstock. Also premium tuners. I also do a lot of string bending, and have kind of a ham fisted heavy touch, and use extra heavy picks. The trem has just three springs, and is adjusted "flat." Seems to stay in tune reasonably well. This setup works well on both my Strats.

[PennyCentury]

Only the cowboys stay in tune - Jimi Hendrix

[atroy]

Originally Posted by wolfman63

I've installed a graphite nut, and not used the string trees on the headstock. Also premium tuners. I also do a lot of string bending, and have kind of a ham fisted heavy touch, and use extra heavy picks. The trem has just three springs, and is adjusted "flat." Seems to stay in tune reasonably well. This setup works well on both my Strats.

This is great advice from Wolfman.

I have three springs and a floating trem. I like to keep the whole thing "loose" so to speak and not bind it up. I also use a little 3-in-1 oil with a little bit of pencil lead (I know they have better stuff for this but it's what I was taught and it seems to work for me) on the nut and bridge and then work the trem out. Deep dives, fluttering, wild shaking, etc. Just to get it all loose and worked out. Then tune back up if neaded and play as you normally would and see how that works. Stays in tune really well for me.

And as Wolfman suggested, nice tuners.

[Groovey Records]

Change your strings the day before the show not the day you play out

[Kornelius]

Maybe you could find some inspiration in this thread
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/bad-dog-c...s-sissies.html
It is called "whammy bar are for sissies" from a Brad Paisley quote!

[Stratotwanger]

http://www.tremking.com/
This is the answer you are looking for. Detune any string and stay in tune and so and so and so on.

[superhand]

+1 for graphite and 3 in 1 oil. Keep your nut and bridge lubed and you should be fine.

And always stretch your strings when they are new of course.

[Dizi]

Use less winds around the posts, rely on a string tree(s) for your break angle over the nut. Winds are great on a Telecaster, but are a headache on a guitar with a trem. Sounds tho like your biggest issue is binding at the nut, causing you to dip your trem to unbind the strings.

Nothing a good setup can't fix, no need for a Floyd.

[superhand]

I hate Floyd Rose bridges. I think they should be banned. Although, I saw something pretty cool yesterday on allparts.com. Seems like a good idea, if it works:

[Tony Reid]

O.K. To summarize:
Cowboy meets sissy ...
Graphite, 3 in 1 oil....
Good tuners (I have Grover vintage kluson style, should be O.K.)
3 springs, loose-ish...
New strings a day or 2 BEFORE a gig...
May need a Tremol-no....

I'll try again and report back next week.

Thanks for all the advice.

[atroy]

Hey man, Floyd Rose trems have their place in our gear universe. You can do unspeakable, relentless things to your guitar and the tuning is still there. I haven't owned a Floyd equipped axe or treated a guitar like that since the 80s or so. But very hard to knock them out out of tune. I used to walk the guitar across the stage by wildly shaking the trem, sort of bouncing it along. I saw SRV do it and had to try it.

[neocaster]

Graphite or not, make sure your nut is properly cut. Also a big fan of graphite for string trees. They're there to preserve the break angle over the nut. The vintage trem is a whole lot less touchy than one floating on a pair of studs. I break out an Ibanez RG570 with a Kahler Floyd Rose copy from time to time and no matter what I do, I have to tweak the fine-tuning on the trem every 20 minutes.

[leonard d rock]

anybody use a locking nut with a vintage whammy if the nut is the problem?

[Octave Doctor]

I have a Floyd on my Washburn MG42, I don't have it quite as solid as my old Yamaha RGZ, but it's pretty close. This mechanism requires some patience, but it CAN be made to work.

Of all 5 of my regular Strats, my Squier STRAT, the cheapest one of the bunch, is the one that stays in tune the best. Go figure.

[Squier Buyer]

big bends nut sauce....use it mostly cause I like the name. 3 springs, no problems.

[Al Watsky]

Lots of 3 & 1 and a well cut nut.
Lube the pivot points on the bridge plate lip , the trem spring claw hooks , the nut and the string trees.
The nut needs to be well cut. I prefer non graphite nuts so the precision is critical.
If you plan on using the trem lots you might consider locking tuners.
I like the traditional trem. Its the right sound. You can make it work. A little logic goes a long way.

[pullchord]

No way a floating trem is going to work without a locking nut.....I guess some players' ideas of being in tune differs from others. Those two guys in the demo ain't in tune to my ears at the end of that video.

[Twang King]

i set mine so that it is flat against the body. loosen the middle 4 screws half a turn, graphite dust on the net, oil the bridges, klusons

[brookdalebill]

I just tune a lot.
I check it between songs, and when I perceive something is out.
A lot of times, it's one of the other guys in the band.
Just takes a few seconds with a Boss TU-2.
Always tune "up" to pitch.

[flyingbanana]

[BritishBluesBoy]

My '82 stays in tune perfectly. The key is a well cut nut and plenty of lube...

[sa paine]

I have to agree with it being more of a problem with the nut rather than the trem. If the nut is cut well the Vintage trem will work just fine.

[Bluej58]

Open the slots a little and make sure the bottoms are round, on the wound strings you can use an old string and graphite to polish the bottoms a bit, graphite is an abrasive.
I also use a product from Stew Mac called Guitar Grease that seems to work well.

[jefrs]

When I fitted my strat vintage bridge, I sharpened and levelled the fulcrum holes, also arranged the screw heads so they did not foul the bridge plate at any time. That way the fulcrum point stays put and always returns to the same position. Nice, well cut, bone nut, the strings must not bind, no lubricant. I can have the trem as loose as a barn door on two or three springs, whammy hard as you like and it stays in tune.

[Zeppelanoid]

Originally Posted by BritishBluesBoy

The key is a well cut nut and plenty of lube...

Weirdest porno EVER.

[cotecj]

Properly cut nut and Big Bend's sauce helps quite a bit. I've never been able to get a flat trem setup to stay in tune. They are designed to float, and work best that way. Let if float about 1/8" and you should be all set.

[jbmando]

Five springs and screw them all the way in. Make your trem block so it can't bend up in pitch, only down. When I played only a Strat, I tuned 1/2 step flat and played GHS Nickel Rockers 11's and I never broke a string and it never went out of tune. This trem setup along with properly cut nut slots are key to staying in tune when you bend and use the tremolo.

[cband7]

I use locking tuners on everything; check Guiterfetish.com. Also roller trees might help. Replaced a cheap vintage trem that had NO bevel at all on the plate with one from GF; huge difference. Anyone have any experience with Kahler trems?

[Mark Davis]

Here is what I do has always worked for me.

Loosen strings.

Loosen the 6 screws that hold the bridge to the body so they ae all above the plate.

Screw down the outside screws hard to the body. Just tighten the 4 inside ones so they are snug. That helps the bridge pivot and return to pitch better.

I use 3 or 4 springs depending on the guitar and set the bridge so it lightly floats against the body not the 1/8" Fender recommends but just when you do a bend it doesnt move. Its a balancing act but once you get it set lube all the string contact areas and adjust everything it will stay intune for quite awhile.

[JayFreddy]

Personally I've always found it necessary to totally "float" the trem for it to stay in tune. On a vintage style Strat trem, there should be at least a 1/2 step up when you pull on the bar. That way, if you do get any binding at the nut when you recover from a dive bomb, you can pull up on the bar to correct.

That "Tremol-No" thing looks a lot like an accessory that Kahler used to sell for their Steeler and Spyder model Floyd-style tremolos...

Originally Posted by jefrs

...well cut, bone nut, the strings must not bind, no lubricant...

I have heard it said that bone is a preferred material for making nuts because the bone actually has trace quantities of fat in it, which results in a natural lubricant.

But you can't overstate the value of a good set of nut files:

Originally Posted by BritishBluesBoy

The key is a well cut nut and plenty of lube...

That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I use graphite on acoustic guitars, but in my experience, graphite can be messy. If you get it on your clothes, it's nearly impossible to get the stain out.

My luthier uses a Teflon lubricant, which is what's in Big Bends' Nut Sauce.

I also used Vaseline for years, and it works just as well as the Teflon IMHO, but you need to reapply it a bit more often. Recently discovered that Chapstick works great too:



It's not as messy as Vaseline, oil, or graphite, and the applicator is the perfect size to live in a guitar case. Since it comes in flavors, it makes your guitar case smell good too. The Strat with the Mint Green pickguard gets Peppermint, while the Candy Apple Red gets Cinnamon or Cherry...

[jefrs]

I think that's the problem right there, the screws must not be screwed down. They all have to be clear above the plate. If they are screwed down then the plate is pressed against the body, it is supposed to pivot against the screw shanks. If the plate rubs against the body then it binds there. If it touches the screw heads then its pivot point is pushed down and it will not return to the same position. Look at the thing as though it is a balance with springs on one side and strings on the other, the screws are the knife-edge fulcrum, the thing must move smoothly and cleanly without touching anything else. Once it does that it will stay in tune and can be dive-bombed or pulled-up too.

[jefrs]

Originally Posted by JayFreddy

Personally I've always found it necessary to totally "float" the trem for it to stay in tune. On a vintage style Strat trem, there should be at least a 1/2 step up when you pull on the bar. That way, if you do get any binding at the nut when you recover from a dive bomb, you can pull up on the bar to correct.

That "Tremol-No" thing looks a lot like an accessory that Kahler used to sell for their Steeler and Spyder model Floyd-style tremolos...I have heard it said that bone is a preferred material for making nuts because the bone actually has trace quantities of fat in it, which results in a natural lubricant.

But you can't overstate the value of a good set of nut files:



That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I use graphite on acoustic guitars, but in my experience, graphite can be messy. If you get it on your clothes, it's nearly impossible to get the stain out.

My luthier uses a Teflon lubricant, which is what's in Big Bends' Nut Sauce.

I also used Vaseline for years, and it works just as well as the Teflon IMHO, but you need to reapply it a bit more often. Recently discovered that Chapstick works great too:



It's not as messy as Vaseline, oil, or graphite, and the applicator is the perfect size to live in a guitar case. Since it comes in flavors, it makes your guitar case smell good too. The Strat with the Mint Green pickguard gets Peppermint, while the Candy Apple Red gets Cinnamon or Cherry...

I've got my trem pulled-down by the springs at the moment to see if it changed the tone but before that the tail was set floating to pull up by over 4 semitones. Neither way gives me any tuning problems.

I use a bone nut because it is easy to work with pukka nut files and it looks good. Bleached bone nuts have the fats removed, unbleached have some fats left in them and imo polish up better. Cheap plastic nuts sound funny. The better plastic nuts, graphite, tusq, etc work quite well. The trick is to sit the string right so it passes over at the correct angle, is snug but does not bind. No lubricant of any kind should be necessary.

Vaseline (petroleum jelly) is the preferred engineering lubricant for plastic components, especially threaded Bakelite and Tufnol. Do not use mineral (machine) oil on plastic (it acts as glue), it is for metal components.

[Old Cane]

If you have a strat what won't stay in tune just get it fixed or get it sold. I bought my '66 in '73 and can't think of a time it was ever out of tune, once it was tuned when chaning strings. This includes several incident with drunks heads and dental work.

I know all of the stories, old wives tails and so on about pulling 3 times, sticking out your tounge, putting you left leg in, taking it back and then shaking it all about, using the grease from the side of your mother-in-laws nose collected in winter and buying a pencil hand made by a pregnant Hopi medicine woman to rub in the slots.

It's all crap. If your guitar is set up to work correctly it'll stay in tune. If not, fix it. Adjust the bridge correctly, set the neck appropriately and have the nut properly cut.

[KidTelecaster]

Originally Posted by PennyCentury

Only the cowboys stay in tune - Jimi Hendrix

Love that quote. One of the truest (and funniest) things Hendrix ever said.

I remember Dave Grohl being asked if it was hard having Nirvana break up and starting his own band. I think he said something like "one of the biggest things for me was making the realization that being in a rock band doesn't mean you have to play out of tune."

So there's both sides of that coin!

[Zmatko]

Originally Posted by BritishBluesBoy

My '82 stays in tune perfectly. The key is a well cut nut and plenty of lube...

So by that if we groom the nuts and hit the lube..

[JayFreddy]

Originally Posted by jefrs

Vaseline (petroleum jelly) is the preferred engineering lubricant for plastic components, especially threaded Bakelite and Tufnol. Do not use mineral (machine) oil on plastic (it acts as glue), it is for metal components.

Good information, thanks for that. I've never used anything other than Vaseline, Teflon (nut sauce), and graphite. The Chapstick is basically Vaseline too.

I guess the point is that there is more than one way to lube your nuts... Some are just plain wrong, while some are better than others. Some just smell better than others...

[E5RSY]

I believe someone posted this awhile back. If it works, it's definitely the cheapest route:

[Kuzin Flake]

The only string that acts up on my strats is the "B". after I do some serious whooper of a bend, then at some point I'll smack the bar and its fine again..something Ive come to accept over the years.Then again I do own strats with floyd roses and I dont play my standard trem strats any differently( well for the most part).3 springs-well stretched strings-lubed every thing, Im pretty aggresive towards bending and bar use, I guess its something you gotta get personal with ,know your instruments likes and dislikesand find Home in between.Once you get the bugs out she'll be a dream.

[MondoGuitar]

At risk of being shot I'll mention I put Sperzels on everything here (even the cat) and they seem to be the Bee's Knees. I can teach bends all day on my Brian Moore without having to tune up more than once or twice.