Robert Cray sound - why not so common?

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by Warren Pederson

Gary Moore just doesn't "get it". No purer example as the above video clip.

I have not ever been accused of being a Gary Moore fan, but frankly he does not mess that tune up as bad as all that. The truth is, Collins took up 75 percent of that stage when he lived and now that this fantastic player and performer is gone, it is 85 percent of the stage. (As we see things, today.) There really isn't much room for anybody else, no matter what you do. So, does Gary just play 15 seconds and step back - why get up there at all? - everyone is gonna comment on how you got your butt kicked. It is a no win situation. Moore's manner playing at the time was a symptom of a disease that effected 2/3rds the players at that time. Why make him poster child?

What can I tell you?

Anyway, like I said, I'll take Robert Cray, please, but I've seen so many performances worse than that one by Gary - ya'll know it is a fact.

[TG]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

Moore's manner playing at the time was a symptom of a disease that effected 2/3rds the players at that time. Why make him poster child?

Because some people think it's Tastefully Correct.



This is fun.

[Tonemaster]

Originally Posted by TG

Because some people think it's Tastefully Correct.



This is fun.

Just love BB's tone when he plugs into a Fender amp. The look on his face at the end,,,"get me outta here!"

T.

[garyd5158]

This is one of the most entertaining threads ever. Its like a great tennis match or watching the "dozens" being played in the nieghborhood. (Oh my stomach hurts from the laughter...)

[TG]

Originally Posted by Tonemaster

Just love BB's tone when he plugs into a Fender amp. The look on his face at the end,,,"get me outta here!"

Yes, of course. Obviously couldn't wait to get away.

[nosuch]

oups, i did not post the youtube vid of collins with moore to diss moore.
what I wanted to show are to different concepts of sound and playing.
.... die geister die ich rief ...
both concepts have their fans and i think (to quote Klaus Wowereit) "Da ist auch gut so".

personally I am not a fan of moore but (to each his own) but I can't see any reason why that provokes so much negative feelings.

[charlie chitlin]

I hate to think of what I would do to own that Les Paul....

[dogggone]

Saw Robert Cray last night.
His tone was anything but thin..imho!
Perhaps he is not imitated because it is more challenging than it sounds.ymmv

[Tonemaster]

Originally Posted by TG

Yes, of course. Obviously couldn't wait to get away.

The vid posted is clearly not from this DVD.

T.

[SnidelyWhiplash]

Originally Posted by dogggone

Saw Robert Cray last night.
His tone was anything but thin..imho!
Perhaps he is not imitated because it is more challenging than it sounds.ymmv

Very good observation, Most guitarists nowadays can't play a gig without
their snot colored o.d. S.R.V. wannbe pedal.

[TG]

Originally Posted by Tonemaster

The vid posted is clearly not from this DVD.

T.

What DVD? That's the cover of their tour booklet.

And your point is.....?

[Roli]

Nice example of him playing neck + middle:



with John Lee Hooker.

.

[tomi]

Originally Posted by Warren Pederson

I think that a lot of guitar guys that don't get Robert Cray miss the part where Cray actually considers himself an R@B performer who gets the blues.

Yeah:

[qblue]

I think R. Cray's sound is due to the lack of REVERB. Use a medium gauge string set, utilize the pickup selector switch and the volume control on the guitar. He does use a lot of finger tone and vibrato.

You guys are obsessing about what is a simple setup. I am a reverb hound, and what I don't hear is the most obvious.

[reverberocket2]

Originally Posted by Warren Pederson

...I think that a lot of guitar guys that don't get Robert Cray miss the part where Cray actually considers himself an R@B performer who gets the blues...

My fav Cray album is the very soul/r&b influenced one he did with the Memphis Horns - Midnight Stroll

[62Caster]

Cray's hands are HUGE!!

[tjalla]

Originally Posted by reverberocket2

My fav Cray album is the very soul/r&b influenced one he did with the Memphis Horns - Midnight Stroll

Good album. "These Things" is the standout track for me, but only by a margin. Great playing and singing all around...

[qblue]

Originally Posted by bingy

No one has mentioned the rich patina that Robert is aquiring over the years...I much prefer him these days.
I thought his appearance on the Clapton Crossroads concert 07 was really great.
He is getting better, both playing and singing.

There is no doubt this guy can play and sing. I think of him as a folk singer who plays the blues. I like that he always tells a story, and usually has a R&B setup on all his songs. He is like extending the language of the blues; I thank God for this. Personally, I am tired of three chord 12 bar blues; it may be nice during a jam session, but it is tiring to listen to it these days. I did note the Lack Of REVERB in his tone. It was weird to hear a delay, because I didn't know he knew how to use the thing.

But to each his own. I love Robert and his style, but I won't be copping his style, 'cause I love reverb. If I could afford a new Princeton Amp, I would be in reverb heaven!

[Roli]

I'm not sure if he really didn't ever use any reverb (sounds like he didn't in that video), but I love non-reverb stuff. I do realize it's kind of an acquired taste. It teaches you how to play with note lengths, cause your fretted notes will ring only as long as you hold them.

Many of today's guitarists seem to forget that reverb wasn't always a regular thing to use. I read plenty of amp reviews where they say something like "sadly there's no reverb, I'll have to add a holy grail..." and stuff like that. I personally think it's not always a must, yet a lot of people tend to use it the way as if they were adding ketchup to every single meal. lol

.

[TG]

Originally Posted by Roli

I'm not sure if he really didn't ever use any reverb (sounds like he didn't in that video), but I love non-reverb stuff. I do realize it's kind of an acquired taste. It teaches you how to play with note lengths, cause your fretted notes will ring only as long as you hold them.

Many of today's guitarists seem to forget that reverb wasn't always a regular thing to use. I read plenty of amp reviews where they say something like "sadly there's no reverb, I'll have to add a holy grail..." and stuff like that. I personally think it's not always a must, yet a lot of people tend to use it the way as if they were adding ketchup to every single meal. lol

.

Agreed. I rarely if ever use it, myself.

Why the invisible dot?

[tjalla]

Opening track from "Midnight Stroll". Tasty use of 'verb here, Roli (good call btw)

[Tonemaster]

I much prefer Bob's tones with the Fender Backline instead of the Matchless.

T.

[black_doug]

Originally Posted by russv

I always practice unplugged. Badly played notes are very noticeable and it doesn't disturb anyone else.

Roy Buchanan was unplugged when he practiced.

[craigh9]

An acquaintance of mine (who I think is a member of this forum), says the Cray Strat is the best of all the Strats.

Craig

[flyingbanana]

Originally Posted by Roli

I actually can't. I find his notes rather percussive, not sustaining like compressed notes.

I had the luck of seeing Cray perform at the Avalon Ballroom on Catalina Island this last 26th, and I got the chance (briefly) to chat with the sound guy. He wouldn't say a whole lot, but did mention that Cray was not using any effects between the guitar and amps....at least on that night. I certainly couldn't hear a damn bit of compression nor anything else. Just clear loud bell like quackin.

But then again, I'm probably a newbie compared to all of you. This is just what I was told.

And again, it's a pleasure to be on board.

[Warren Pederson]

This thread has turned my into a Cray junkie. Really. I've probably listened to Poor Johnny 100 to 150 times in the last couple months. Just because I could.

[nosuch]

Me too, Poor Johnny will be the next tune we cover as soon as we find time for a rehearsal.

[JamonHamon]

Originally Posted by 62Caster

Cray's hands are HUGE!!

Hey my wife noticed that too!!!

[gemktm]

I remember when he "hit the scene" I bought a couple tapes and (certainly enjoyed them) but thought that somewhere, someone in the recording process put to much compression on his lead sound. It seemed like w/ his solos he wanted to say, "#>*! woman... you are a heartless *{*/#", but his (don't yell at me) super clean, plucky sound forced him to say "Oh fiddle sticks... thats not nice" A few weeks a go I was on the job and the tapers had a powerful system that was BLASTING RC's cd's in a large room and it sounded great! Good songs, good singing but I still felt that RC might feel a therapeutic release if he could "open the throttle" a little more! Hopefully RC is doing well.

[nosuch]

Originally Posted by JamonHamon

Hey my wife noticed that too!!!

Right next door?

[nosuch]

A tip for all you tele-boys and -girls who would like to get the quack like robert sometimes: by chance i stumbled onto a peavey omniac (I wanted to try an amp and that was the next thing looking like a tele), which by the help of a five way switch and some resistors somehow gets it. i am trying to have that in my esquire /w nocaster pickups as soon as I can and will tell you how it works out.

[GraspnAtStrings]

Been following this thread with great interest, as I am a big fan of Robert Cray's music. I love his tone. Sometimes I can hear his singing in his guitar and vice versa in a way that gives me chills. But I can understand why others wouldn't feel the same way.
My question/comment has to due with some of the terms used like "blues" and "rhythm and blues" and "soul" music. How seriously can we take this terms to describe music as it really is, rather than as a convenient way to categorize cds at a music store or songs on Itunes website? These are handy terms, but I also think they can be limiting. When you look at a roster of blues greats, everyone from Mississippi John Hurt to T-Bone Walker to Albert King, I'd be hard pressed to identify a "blues tone" or even "style." It's something more primal and mysterious that seems to connect all these artists and it doesn't have anything to do with amps or a brand of strings. I love reading about equipment, don't get me wrong, but I sometimes feel we reduce music to formulas. More important, and maybe this is going too far, but I also feel it has hurt that style of music we call the blues.
Too much "blues music" being produced today is a rehash of the past (especially the more recent SRV past, RIP), rather than a continuation of its spirit. Too many of the blues acts in clubs sound like their doing karaoke rather than creating something vital. For me Robert Cray, both in his songs and his approach to guitar sounds both fresh (fresher than a lot of younger players) but also somehow timeless. I fell the same way about Derek Trucks, the Roots, and PJ Harvey, all of whom I consider "blues" in the broader sense.
Sorry for the loooong rant, especially from a noob, but I'd like to hear what the rest of you guys think since there is such good knowledge base here (love the Robert Ward reference earlier in the thread).

[DaBender]

Vanguard era Buddy Guy has a lot of position 2 and 4 on it.

[nosuch]

I listened to "this time" last night on the way to my gig from my iPod and noticed that guitar and keys are often hard panned left and right.
sounds very transparent, I like it. John Scofield's "piety street" also sports that hard panning. Is there an industry trend coming?

[fadingcaptain]

Just to respond to the original post....lots of players don't use that clean tone because you do have to work twice as hard to wring those tones out of the guitar.

[nosuch]

I got the 5-Way Superswitch (Peavey Omniac inspired) in my MIM Esquire (w/ Nocaster PUs) since last week and played it in public for the first time yesterday.
Unfortunately the SF Super Reverb of the club was not running so I had to plug into a twin. worse things happen.
The 5-way switching gives me the traditional tele positions + a "semi scoustic" preset and a quack preset.
And the latter really works well, it nails the characteristics of a strat and (unlike most strats with the in between setting) cuts through the mix with ease. I could not try the "Es 335" preset that much yesterday but at home it seems to be working well. I am not someone into sophisticated electronics, but with a simple switch (not so simple actually, it took the electronic guy four hours to figure out how to read the shedule and transfer it to the switch he provided, which was somehow different from the one in the shedule) and some resistors my guitar now has a two more really usable sounds without taking away anything from the tele simplicity.