The secret to Strat trem tuning stability is floating the trem?

[cotecj]

So, I set my new (used) Squier Strat up with a GFS tremolo, new tuners and a graphite nut. I set the tremolo so that the bridge was resting on the body, I figured it would be easier to tune, and probably stay in tune better. No way. If I so much as looked at the trem bar, the thing was out of tune. I gave up on it and put the guitar away for a week, after tweaking everything over and over again. Finally, tonight I decided to try setting the trem up so the bridge is floating 1/8" off the body, like Fender recommends. Well, what do you know, now it stays in tune perfectly. Who would have thought? Has anyone else experienced this? Does anybody set their tremolo up flush with the body, and use it successfully?

[braderrick]

I've always had the opposite effect. When floating I can not keep the guitars in tune. All of my strats are set up with down action only on the tremolo. On vintage style tremolos I just put an extra spring or two in and tighten up the claw. If I can bend any string a whole step without the tremolo moving on it's own I'm in good shape. It seems to me the problem was with only 3 springs and a loose claw, I could bend one string and all the others would go flat. On my American two post tremolos I set them up the same only I also drop the two posts down so that all four corners of the tremolo plate are flush on the body. Seems to give better sustain too. I should also add though that I seldom use a tremolo.

[JayFreddy]

Originally Posted by cotecj

I decided to try setting the trem up so the bridge is floating 1/8" off the body, like Fender recommends. Well, what do you know, now it stays in tune perfectly. Who would have thought? Has anyone else experienced this?

I'm with you. But I've had to sand, replace, and/or replace several nuts in the process.

I can dive till the strings hang loose off the neck, and it comes back in tune...

The guitars I've played where the tremolo is "down only" you have maybe 2 or 3 full steps before you are past the "point of no return" and it won't come back into tune.

If someone can recommend a trick to getting a "down only " tremolo to stay in tune, I'd like to learn it.

[vintage2]

I gave up long ago with these things. I cut and sanded a block of wood to sit between the bridge block and the body. no trem, but stays perfectly in tune no matter what string bending i throw at it.

[voided3]

I always set my vintage trems flush with the body, and you need to make sure that the six screws in the plate don't touch the plate (at least not with a lot of down pressure). The best way to check this is by having the strings and trem springs removed, then back off all six screws until they are about an 1/8" from the top of the plate, then tighten them one at a time until the plate lifts a little and back it off until the plate rests flush. Or just back them off a bit (haha).

There also are the obvious nut, string tree, and how-well-the-strings-are-installed factors.

[Ironwolf]

The Strat I assembled from Mitey Mite and GFS parts has a 2 post floating trem, and I've got to say it stays in tune with no problems.

[Octave Doctor]

A lot of times, certain guitars just work better with trems--the '65 Strat I had was great about coming back in tune, but I've had others where nothing I did worked. The best stock tremolo strat I have now is from a Strat Pack guitar, it's crazy how well it works for an $80.00 pawn shop guitar. The Peavey Predator is a whole different story.

[Tim Armstrong]

I've gotten very good results with a Hipshot Tremsetter. I'd note that it's kinda important to tweak it just so, but once you do, definitely does a great job...

Tim

[Steinar G]

I've yet to meet a Strat that won't stay in tune with the bridge set up floating, after a little tweaking, that's what they're made for. Flat to the body on the other hand, never works for me no matter what I do....
I know many people have the opposite experience, but this is how it's worked for me.

[frogger]

There are many factors that determine how well a trem works. How well the nut is cut is crucial as well as string guage, number of springs used, locking or non-locking tuners, 6 screws in front of bridge plate must be of correct height. My experience with Strat trems is to always keep it floating about 5 mm above the body. When flush with the body I find it alters the tone slightly and decreases sustain. Original spec vintage Fender trems where not designed for deep dive bombing. Also setting the trem flush with the body changes the break angle over the saddle which effects string tension thus effecting trem stability.

[Ivan]

With some strat trems I find the saddles cause more problems than the nut (the saddles "catch the string", pulling them sharp after using the trem).
When that's the case, I find a floating trem works better as the break angle on the strings isn't as sharp.

However anyone who has major problems with the trems on strats (after a good set up of course) should look into Nut Sauce. In my experience they're better than any graphite nut/saddle.

[frogger]

+1 using nut sauce..great stuff

[Astro1176]

to the OP - I see you put in a load of new stuff - did you put in new springs too? With my first strat, I found the tuning relatively unstable for about a week or 2 - not terrible, after lubricating and attending and setting things up nicely, but generally you would have top retune after a song or so. After that, the thing settled down and is really stable, even when doing a lot of trem work. Something settled down in that time, maybe it was the springs stretching in. (It wasn't the strings - I have put new strings on since then and they stretch in within hours at most)

I do have my trem floating, but if there are things you prefer about having the plate flat to the deck, I would give that another go to see if it was just things settling in that caused your initial tuning problems.


PS - I am so put off with the name of 'Nut Sauce' that I find it difficult contemplating ever trying it, I will stick with 3 in 1 oil and graphite...

[JayFreddy]

FWIW, The "Nut Sauce" is a Teflon-based lubricant. You can get the same stuff for less money, without the silly name:

http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Perform...=pd_sbs_auto_4

BTW, I used to use locksmith's graphite, but it didn't always work for me. Then started mixing it with petroluem jelly (aka vaseline), and that worked better, but it could get messy.

In an effort to control the mess, I started using petroleum jelly only, and I've found that's all in need. The trick is to apply it in small quantities to the nut slots with a toothpick, and wipe off any excess.

Teflon has a slight edge over petroleum jelly in that it lasts a bit longer. With petroleum jelly, you need to apply it every time you change strings. With Teflon, you'll probably want to do the same thing, but you can get away with skipping a treatment.

Since the petroleum jelly cost about 99 cents for a lifetime supply, I'm fine putting it on once a month when I change strings.

Maybe someone reading this who doesn't know what to get me for Christmas can give me a $3 bottle of Teflon...

[Dizi]

All of my Strats have six-screw trems flush-mounted, but they all required a setup for tuning stability. I think this is why Fender recommends floating the trem. Its easier than showing someone how to diagnose and resove stability issues.

[cotecj]

Yes, I used the new springs that came with the trem. Interesting theory. I didn't think about that. To answer some of the other questions and comments, I cut a new graphite nut (and it came out really good!) and lubed the slots with pencil graphite. I've used nut sauce on other guitars, and it's great stuff. I think the problem with setting the trem flush on this guitar is that it doesn't sit really flat on the body, so it wasn't always returning to the same place. I'm enjoying the floating trem now that I've got it, so I'll just leave it that way.

[Pinball_Wizard]

I just added two springs, and started working the claw to where it's flush to the body, but got lazy. So it's a little closer

Stays in tune except the 2nd string gradually sharpens, going sharp is better than going flat, and it usually takes more than ten minutes of playing to occur, so it's predictable.

Adding two strings really gave the strat more of an aggressive tone, not as mellow, and working the trem takes more effort.

[Astro1176]

Originally Posted by JayFreddy

FWIW, The "Nut Sauce" is a Teflon-based lubricant. You can get the same stuff for less money, without the silly name:

http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Perform...=pd_sbs_auto_4

BTW, I used to use locksmith's graphite, but it didn't always work for me. Then started mixing it with petroluem jelly (aka vaseline), and that worked better, but it could get messy.

In an effort to control the mess, I started using petroleum jelly only, and I've found that's all in need. The trick is to apply it in small quantities to the nut slots with a toothpick, and wipe off any excess.

Teflon has a slight edge over petroleum jelly in that it lasts a bit longer. With petroleum jelly, you need to apply it every time you change strings. With Teflon, you'll probably want to do the same thing, but you can get away with skipping a treatment.

Since the petroleum jelly cost about 99 cents for a lifetime supply, I'm fine putting it on once a month when I change strings.

Maybe someone reading this who doesn't know what to get me for Christmas can give me a $3 bottle of Teflon...

Thanks very much for that, I will try it. I once had a bottle of some exotic molybdenum silicon lube used for guns which worked pretty well, and to be honest I don't have a problem with graphite on the nut and 3-in-1 on the tree & bridge, but I am a sucker for hi tech better stuff that makes no difference!

[Axis29]

A properly cut nut, a little pencil graphite in the slots and my trems all float with three springs... No problems with tuning at all!

I find the tuning problems always end up being at the nut.

[play_loud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Oyc6slYRc

Try watching that you tube link.. Simple way to solve the problem.

It worked for me!

[Dizi]

Originally Posted by play_loud

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Oyc6slYRc

Try watching that you tube link.. Simple way to solve the problem.

It worked for me!

All he did was stretch his strings. He did nothing to address the problem with his strings binding at the nut, which he proudly displays at 7:40 mins. If he was my tech I'd fire him.

[Justjammin]

I've recently built a 62 RI Strat, I upgraded to a Callaham, using their installation instructions using (10's) 4 springs and floating, this strat sings.

If I de-tune to Eb, 1/2 to a full turn off the spring screws, bingo