3-way poblem

Old Cane · September 23rd, 2008, 05:13 PM

No, not THAT kind of 3-way.

On a new strat I'm piecing together I put in a brand new 3-way. Yeah, I'm the guy that doesn't like 5-ways. Anyway, I've never had this problem before and wanted to see if any of you have.

Problem: the "in-between" sounds come so close to the middle and bridge positions they just fall on over. It's brand new CRL.

Any ideas? Shove dirt in? Liquid rust? Spill coffee? Anything?

Please don't say get a 5-way. Please. I'm asking nicely.

vjf1968 · September 23rd, 2008, 06:00 PM

Maybe you need a new 3-way switch. Is it possible this one is defective?

Old Cane · September 23rd, 2008, 06:12 PM

Well, I'm sure it is possible. I just wondered if any other 3-way holdouts like me have seen this. I haven't bought a new switch for 15 years so I don't know if they are built now to not allow it. I mean 2 and 4 are there but they sit about 2 1/2 and 4 1/2 so they just just fall on over.

Bhodie · September 23rd, 2008, 10:27 PM

If you take the switch out and look at the underside, there are little brass pieces that the slider comes in contact with to make the connection with the wires. Sometimes when you solder, they heat up and get loose. You can move the slider out of position and lightly crimp down those pieces and that will help "grip" the slider better.. just a thought..

Old Cane · September 24th, 2008, 11:34 AM

Ah, that was suggested by someone else as well. I'll give it a try tonight. Thanks! I knew on the older ones the grip was always tighter than on this one.

viking · September 27th, 2008, 04:58 AM

Just curious , why not just use a 5-way ?

braderrick · September 28th, 2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viking

Just curious , why not just use a 5-way ?

Figured that would come up eventually. I really can't help ya out as to how to keep the switch in between positions but There is a little trick I do in my vintage style strats. If I want the authentic original looking 3-way switch I'll also put a push/pull pot in. When I pull this pot it activates the middle pickup so I still have the "in between" sounds with the switch in the 1 or 3 position. It's pretty simple and it works great for me but you may not want the P/P pot either, just an idea for ya...

Old Cane · September 30th, 2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viking

Just curious , why not just use a 5-way ?

I thought I asked nicely not to ask. I do NOT like 5-ways. To me (in my opinion is what I mean here) they don't sound as good on what has come to be known as the "2 and 4" positions.

I don't understand why everyone wants things the way they were back in '57 or '62 but yet they want a 5-way switch. People go to great lengths and expense to make people think they have old beat up guitars and yet want a 5-way.

Will I ever use a 5-way? Maybe. Will I ever like it? No.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and the reason I didn't want to get into this is that apparently everyones opinion matters but mine. I'm just wrong. Anytime this is brought up I'm told I'm wrong. If I wanted to be told my opinion is worthless I could just stay off the forums and talk to my wife.

Thanks for asking.

boris bubbanov · September 30th, 2008, 09:15 PM

Old Cane, I'll tell you my experiences with this flock of 3 way AV52 FSR Teles I have. They have the traditional old style parts as best as Fender can manage, and they have (all but one) the traditional wiring with the muffled bassy tone in position 3.

So that means I need a functioning position 1.5 for the combination of neck and bridge.

Well, about half of these suckers will stay right there in position 1.5 as long as I care to play, and the other half fall out of the position, generally back into position 1.

So, I'd say you should buy 3-4 more 3 ways and just keep installing them until one behaves as you see fit.

yegbert · September 30th, 2008, 10:00 PM

My only 3-pickup guitar is a Strat with a 5-way and I've never tried this trick. But I have an Oak Grigsby 3-way switch in one Tele (maybe two), and CRL 3-way switches in my others. These CRL switches have a spring that I think makes them hard to keep in between the positions, but my Oak Grigsby has no spring and it seems like it is willing to stay in between.

CRL 3-way:

Oak Grigsby 3-way:

The 3-way Fender puts in Teles now, and sells as a replacement part, is the Oak Grigsby:

viking · October 1st, 2008, 01:37 AM

Old Cane , I didnt try to tell you that you were wrong , and just needed a 5-way ! I asked politely why you preferred the 3-way ( switch , that is !) , just out of interest.....Use what you like , no problem with me , ever...

Old Cane · October 1st, 2008, 08:08 PM

Thanks all. I had the idea of using this one in a telecaster and get a few more just to see if this one is a problem. I also thought about using the OG. The thing is, it will stay in place, i.e. half way between. The problem is that that's not the spot. I've just never had one that wasn't the "in-between" spot when it was actually in between. Looking at your picture of the OG I think it may be the one to try. That piece that contacts the nodes looks huge compared to mine. When I dink with it, that piece on mine just barely connects with both nodes (and of course, off center thus causing my problem).

I'm still tinkering and playing it. It feels great. I've also pegged it just to play the "4" for a while. So either I can use 1-3-4 (with a peg) or 1-3-5 if I let the peg fall out. And let me tell you, I know lots of guys don't like a strat bridge pickup but if you had the set of Budz pickups that I do you'd want to play it. It is just outstanding.

Thanks again. Work in progress.

Oh, and viking, no problem. I knew somebody would ask. It's just whenever I get into my reasoning it either makes me sound crazy or I get called names. Or both.

braderrick · October 2nd, 2008, 01:30 AM

"Looking at your picture of the OG I think it may be the one to try. That piece that contacts the nodes looks huge compared to mine. When I dink with it, that piece on mine just barely connects with both nodes (and of course, off center thus causing my problem)."

To be honest with ya I don't think that middle pic is an actual Oak Grigsby 3-way. It is an OG but it appears to be a 5 way to me. And the piece that contacts the lugs you are refering to IS bigger but I believe it's because it's a 5-way. I've compared one of my OG 3 ways to the pic and it's a little different and the contact piece is one of the differences, the 3-way doesn't have a contact piece quite that large... Hope this helps.

yegbert · October 2nd, 2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braderrick

To be honest with ya I don't think that middle pic is an actual Oak Grigsby 3-way. It is an OG but it appears to be a 5 way to me. And the piece that contacts the lugs you are refering to IS bigger but I believe it's because it's a 5-way. I've compared one of my OG 3 ways to the pic and it's a little different and the contact piece is one of the differences, the 3-way doesn't have a contact piece quite that large... Hope this helps.

I think you're right, I'm sorry for the mixup. That's a picture Mojo uses and it looks like the have the picture of the 5-way shown for both the 5-way and the 3-way. I hadn't looked at it in detail to notice that error. If I can find a correct picture I'll replace it.

Thanks!

Old Cane · October 2nd, 2008, 11:52 AM

Hmmm. Ok, thanks for finding this, guys. Let me know what you find. One of the supplies i buy from recommended trying the OG too so I probably will. I can always use one in a telecaster build if it doesn't work out either.

Doug Ferguson · October 2nd, 2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Cane

I thought I asked nicely not to ask. I do NOT like 5-ways. To me (in my opinion is what I mean here) they don't sound as good on what has come to be known as the "2 and 4" positions.

I agree 100%. I think "jamming" a 3-way in 2 and 4 sounds better. This has come up for discussion several times, as you well know. But 3 of my strats have 3-way switches, 2 have 5-way. I play the ones I've wired with a 3-way far more than the others.

BTW, yegbert's right about the switches with springs; they just seem to pop out of place more thn the non-spring ones. Been my experience, anyway.

yegbert · October 2nd, 2008, 08:09 PM

These are listed by MF as DiMarzio but they look just like Oak Grigsby to me so maybe they are simply repackaged. First is a 3-way, second a 5-way.

Old Cane · October 3rd, 2008, 11:44 AM

Yeah, that's smaller alright. Hmmm. Well I should have a chance to tinker some this weekend and see what I can figure out.

Doug, I've never had a problem with them staying in place but it sure seems like the pickgaurd on my '66 is narrower and helps hold it. I've replaced that switch 3 times in the last 35 years and it always worked but maybe the plastic is holding it some too.

Old Cane · October 4th, 2008, 11:07 PM

I pulled an OG out of a telecaster I had. It works fine so I just swapped them. This is probably going to be my only strat build (it's a good one!) so it won't matter if I use CRL or OG on teles but just on GP I'm going to go with OGs from now on. What a hassle.

Thanks guys for all the help. I appreciate all the suggestions. In the words of Lou Ferrigno, it worked! (you've either heard that joke or you haven't).

September 23rd, 2008, 05:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Old Cane Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Age: 47 Posts: 914	3-way problem No, not THAT kind of 3-way. On a new strat I'm piecing together I put in a brand new 3-way. Yeah, I'm the guy that doesn't like 5-ways. Anyway, I've never had this problem before and wanted to see if any of you have. Problem: the "in-between" sounds come so close to the middle and bridge positions they just fall on over. It's brand new CRL. Any ideas? Shove dirt in? Liquid rust? Spill coffee? Anything? Please don't say get a 5-way. Please. I'm asking nicely. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/otiskeithwatkins Last edited by Old Cane; September 23rd, 2008 at 06:22 PM.

September 23rd, 2008, 06:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
vjf1968 Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Philadelphia Age: 40 Posts: 896 7 Photos	Maybe you need a new 3-way switch. Is it possible this one is defective? __________________ "the cult aesthetic of liking only what's obscure is just as sick of being mindlessly led around by the nose" -Mark Mothersbaugh

September 23rd, 2008, 06:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
Old Cane Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Age: 47 Posts: 914	Well, I'm sure it is possible. I just wondered if any other 3-way holdouts like me have seen this. I haven't bought a new switch for 15 years so I don't know if they are built now to not allow it. I mean 2 and 4 are there but they sit about 2 1/2 and 4 1/2 so they just just fall on over. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/otiskeithwatkins

September 24th, 2008, 11:34 AM	#5 (permalink)
Old Cane Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Age: 47 Posts: 914	Ah, that was suggested by someone else as well. I'll give it a try tonight. Thanks! I knew on the older ones the grip was always tighter than on this one. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/otiskeithwatkins

September 30th, 2008, 09:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
boris bubbanov Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Orleans, LA + in the past Posts: 8,510	Old Cane, I'll tell you my experiences with this flock of 3 way AV52 FSR Teles I have. They have the traditional old style parts as best as Fender can manage, and they have (all but one) the traditional wiring with the muffled bassy tone in position 3. So that means I need a functioning position 1.5 for the combination of neck and bridge. Well, about half of these suckers will stay right there in position 1.5 as long as I care to play, and the other half fall out of the position, generally back into position 1. So, I'd say you should buy 3-4 more 3 ways and just keep installing them until one behaves as you see fit. __________________ Bubban0v

September 23rd, 2008, 10:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
Bhodie Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Minneapolis Age: 56 Posts: 123	If you take the switch out and look at the underside, there are little brass pieces that the slider comes in contact with to make the connection with the wires. Sometimes when you solder, they heat up and get loose. You can move the slider out of position and lightly crimp down those pieces and that will help "grip" the slider better.. just a thought..

September 27th, 2008, 04:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
viking Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Denmark Age: 42 Posts: 403	Just curious , why not just use a 5-way ?

September 30th, 2008, 10:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
yegbert Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Clinton, Maryland (US) Age: 54 Posts: 4,847 85 Photos	My only 3-pickup guitar is a Strat with a 5-way and I've never tried this trick. But I have an Oak Grigsby 3-way switch in one Tele (maybe two), and CRL 3-way switches in my others. These CRL switches have a spring that I think makes them hard to keep in between the positions, but my Oak Grigsby has no spring and it seems like it is willing to stay in between. CRL 3-way: Oak Grigsby 3-way: The 3-way Fender puts in Teles now, and sells as a replacement part, is the Oak Grigsby:

October 1st, 2008, 01:37 AM	#11 (permalink)
viking Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Denmark Age: 42 Posts: 403	Old Cane , I didnt try to tell you that you were wrong , and just needed a 5-way ! I asked politely why you preferred the 3-way ( switch , that is !) , just out of interest.....Use what you like , no problem with me , ever...

October 1st, 2008, 08:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
Old Cane Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Age: 47 Posts: 914	Thanks all. I had the idea of using this one in a telecaster and get a few more just to see if this one is a problem. I also thought about using the OG. The thing is, it will stay in place, i.e. half way between. The problem is that that's not the spot. I've just never had one that wasn't the "in-between" spot when it was actually in between. Looking at your picture of the OG I think it may be the one to try. That piece that contacts the nodes looks huge compared to mine. When I dink with it, that piece on mine just barely connects with both nodes (and of course, off center thus causing my problem). I'm still tinkering and playing it. It feels great. I've also pegged it just to play the "4" for a while. So either I can use 1-3-4 (with a peg) or 1-3-5 if I let the peg fall out. And let me tell you, I know lots of guys don't like a strat bridge pickup but if you had the set of Budz pickups that I do you'd want to play it. It is just outstanding. Thanks again. Work in progress. Oh, and viking, no problem. I knew somebody would ask. It's just whenever I get into my reasoning it either makes me sound crazy or I get called names. Or both. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/otiskeithwatkins

October 2nd, 2008, 01:30 AM	#13 (permalink)
braderrick Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kentucky Age: 25 Posts: 567	"Looking at your picture of the OG I think it may be the one to try. That piece that contacts the nodes looks huge compared to mine. When I dink with it, that piece on mine just barely connects with both nodes (and of course, off center thus causing my problem)." To be honest with ya I don't think that middle pic is an actual Oak Grigsby 3-way. It is an OG but it appears to be a 5 way to me. And the piece that contacts the lugs you are refering to IS bigger but I believe it's because it's a 5-way. I've compared one of my OG 3 ways to the pic and it's a little different and the contact piece is one of the differences, the 3-way doesn't have a contact piece quite that large... Hope this helps.

October 2nd, 2008, 11:52 AM	#15 (permalink)
Old Cane Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Age: 47 Posts: 914	Hmmm. Ok, thanks for finding this, guys. Let me know what you find. One of the supplies i buy from recommended trying the OG too so I probably will. I can always use one in a telecaster build if it doesn't work out either. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/otiskeithwatkins

October 3rd, 2008, 11:44 AM	#18 (permalink)
Old Cane Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Age: 47 Posts: 914	Yeah, that's smaller alright. Hmmm. Well I should have a chance to tinker some this weekend and see what I can figure out. Doug, I've never had a problem with them staying in place but it sure seems like the pickgaurd on my '66 is narrower and helps hold it. I've replaced that switch 3 times in the last 35 years and it always worked but maybe the plastic is holding it some too. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/otiskeithwatkins

October 4th, 2008, 11:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
Old Cane Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Age: 47 Posts: 914	I pulled an OG out of a telecaster I had. It works fine so I just swapped them. This is probably going to be my only strat build (it's a good one!) so it won't matter if I use CRL or OG on teles but just on GP I'm going to go with OGs from now on. What a hassle. Thanks guys for all the help. I appreciate all the suggestions. In the words of Lou Ferrigno, it worked! (you've either heard that joke or you haven't). __________________ http://www.myspace.com/otiskeithwatkins