Robert Cray Models

[frogger]

I am looking for a great hardtail model and wanted to get feedback on the two Cray models. I know the CS version has gold parts and better wood but for the price how does the Standard Cray model compare? Both models have the CS pups and with the fixed bridge, should offer good tuning stability. The bigger C neck should offer stability and a bit more sustain. I have a Vibro-King so no problem getting his sound. A major dealer is offering the Standard model in Inca Silver with his greatness's signature on the pickguard at a super price. Should I go for it or opt for the CS model?

[fenson]

Originally Posted by frogger

I am looking for a great hardtail model and wanted to get feedback on the two Cray models. I know the CS version has gold parts and better wood but for the price how does the Standard Cray model compare? Both models have the CS pups and with the fixed bridge, should offer good tuning stability. The bigger C neck should offer stability and a bit more sustain. I have a Vibro-King so no problem getting his sound. A major dealer is offering the Standard model in Inca Silver with his greatness's signature on the pickguard at a super price. Should I go for it or opt for the CS model?

IMo the CS is a waste of money that being said if you could compare the two side by side well one maybe better than the other, and maybe not. IMO ordering in a CS could be a waste. That Vibro King will make anything sound great IMO. if the one at the shop is a price you want to pay and sounds good plays good I would go ahead and grab it, Just because a guitar comes from the CS doesnt mean it will be any good , they put out their share of dogs. I know, I have played some not a Cray but some of their other vintage offering. Good and bad in all of Fenders Lines IMO. The MIM are fine guitars I think the only thing a person would want to change out would be the Tuners.
lONG STORY SHORT IF THE ONE AT THE SHOP IS A GOOD EXAMPLE AND PRICE GET IT. Always best to play before ya pay !

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by fenson

IMo the CS is a waste of money

My thoughts also. The CS Robert Cray in Inca Silver was played through a Pro-Sonic and it sounded all right but there was no love in the assembly of this guitar at all. It had been ordered and refused, was really being given away but I would not go for it. CA glue all over the extremely pale pinkish rosewood board, and the pale maple neck birdseyes looked like boils. Hideous, and I'm a birdseye guy, I promise you. The neck was not deep but had instead fat shoulders, almost a tumblehome effect. I find the MIM is quite different and I'd go that way time after time.

[Mark Davis]

The MIM one is just fine. Its got better sounding pickups same wood as used on the CS one just no Nitro and 4 x's less exxpensive new.

Here is the one I had.

[fenson]

Hey Mark I think we have similar tastes in Strats.

[frogger]

Thanks guys, looks like I will get the Standard Cray. I will tweak it to my taste with a pro set-up and perhaps upgrade the tuners to gotoh if the originals don't work right. Inca silver looks best to me with the burst a close second. It will be nice to have a Strat that won't be a pain in the arse when it comes to tuning stability.

[fenson]

Originally Posted by frogger

Thanks guys, looks like I will get the Standard Cray. I will tweak it to my taste with a pro set-up and perhaps upgrade the tuners to gotoh if the originals don't work right. Inca silver looks best to me with the burst a close second. It will be nice to have a Strat that won't be a pain in the arse when it comes to tuning stability.

Happy picking and if you do not know this already the pots and switch are the same ones used in the AVRI 57,62 ,as well as the MIM classics.

[Mark Davis]

Originally Posted by frogger

Thanks guys, looks like I will get the Standard Cray. I will tweak it to my taste with a pro set-up and perhaps upgrade the tuners to gotoh if the originals don't work right. Inca silver looks best to me with the burst a close second. It will be nice to have a Strat that won't be a pain in the arse when it comes to tuning stability.

All these need is a good setup and thats it. The pots and switch are the same as used in the CS and AV models. The tuners work great mine stayed in perfect tune the whole time I owned it I could just pick it up and play it and never had to even touch the tuners after its inital tuneup out of the gig bag and even then just had to tune the b-e strings.

[Brent Hutto]

In addition to the 'burst one in our Classified here at the moment...

...there is a used one on eBay right now that is still in a rather lowball price range with a day to go on the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-Artist-Se...em280211092332

Also a violet one, brand new, not attracting any action with a starting bit of around $420 shipped. That's about what I just paid for a dinged-up one but mine is Inca Silver, the one true Robert Cray Strat color

[pbenn]

There was one for sale in Toronto last week:

http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/msg/607211540.html

Probably sold by now....

[frogger]

Placed my order at my dealer and he said Fender had it in stock in Inca Silver. Also ordered a deluxe G&G case in tweed so I should get everything in 2 weeks. The gig bag is nice but I don't care for them to protect the goods. I almost ordered the sunburst but that could be a crap shoot depending on how well they matched the 3 piece body. I'm hoping the neck isn't too big (AKA older Beck models) yikes those necks where monstrous! I have small hands but I love the wide-fat neck on my PRS so I shouldn't have a problem with the Cray.

[Brent Hutto]

I just got my Inca Silver MiM Cray today (and older used one) and to me the neck is anything but huge. It's is exactly like my MiM Standard Telecaster up in first position and then gets maybe 1/8" thicker than my Tele up under the higher frets. And it's a C-shape so no big shoulders. If anything I'd rather it be a few percent beefier all around.

Mine does seem to be about 1mm wider than my Tele though, which is weird.

[gtrman911]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

I just got my Inca Silver MiM Cray today (and older used one) and to me the neck is anything but huge. It's is exactly like my MiM Standard Telecaster up in first position and then gets maybe 1/8" thicker than my Tele up under the higher frets. And it's a C-shape so no big shoulders. If anything I'd rather it be a few percent beefier all around.

Mine does seem to be about 1mm wider than my Tele though, which is weird.

thank you.
mine was the same as yours...NOT FAT! NOT chunky.
if anything, it may have had a similar shape to an early 80s Bullet.

that being said, i changed the neck on my MIM SB RC. it now sports a USA Fender RW neck, and it rules!

[FrankB]

I have one of the original guitars that they made for him in the mid 1980's
it's a MIJ cream/mapleneck stratocaster. Well, he didn't want it so a friend of mine bought it off of his roadie, I bought it a week later for $200.00
Reason he didn;t want to use it, from what I was told is because he didn;t want any "hendrix" comments coming his way. makes sense to me I guess.
I still play this strat everyday and use it for gigs also. nIt's heavy but it sounds great.

[frogger]

My Cray arrived today and the neck profile was perfect. The neck joint was sloppy and the position of the dots on the fingerboard was off. I think the bridge holes where drilled wrong so the strings didn't line up like it should have. The pups sounded great and the sustain was very nice. The rosewood board wasn't uniform in color with not so great fret work. Sorry to say it didn't come home with me due to build issues. I will continue my search for a great hardtail.

[Jakedog]

Ensanada strikes again. Somehow I am not at all surprised.

I gave an MIM Cray a shot a couple of years ago, it was great, until it needed a truss rod adjustment. I tried to tighten it, only to find that it was maxed out. From the factory. Brand new. I've given Mexico a chance so many times, and have ALWAYS been disappointed. I know in any line that Fender has, a few dogs will slip through now and then, but Fender Mexico seems to consistently turn out poo.

Keep your eyes peeled, used Am. Std. and Am. Series hartails show up all the time. Usually in the $550-$700 range. Much better build quality, and nicer wood to begin with. You won't get the vintage appointments, but you will get a really nice strat at a fair price, that will also hold it's value over time. If you don't like the pickups, swap 'em. The rest of the guitar is a flat out winner. I've been gigging Am. Std. guitars since 1990, and don't even mod them anymore.


Jake

[Brent Hutto]

There's another thread just started today about an Made in USA Telecaster with similar quality-control issues. Go figure, a crew from Ensenada must have snuck into California that day...

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

a crew from Ensenada must have snuck into California that day...

There are so many places one could take this satement, but they would all just be SO wrong.

I would never say the USA guitars are without fault. I have seen several with serious issues, from the Hwy 1 line, all the way up to CS stuff. I even bought an Am. Std. Strat once, and got it all the way home to do a set-up before I realized it didn't even have a truss rod installed, just an empty channel. However, it has been my experience from 23 years of playing guitar, and almost twenty of that with predominantly Fender electrics in the stable, that the bad ones are far more of an exception than a rule.

I have bought several MIM pieces, a dozen that I can think of, not one of them was without a major issue. There's no way my luck is that bad. I don't always keep my kharma in line, but that's just ridiculous.


Jake

[tjalla]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

I even bought an Am. Std. Strat once, and got it all the way home to do a set-up before I realized it didn't even have a truss rod installed, just an empty channel.Jake

[pchilson]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

I have bought several MIM pieces, a dozen that I can think of, not one of them was without a major issue. There's no way my luck is that bad. I don't always keep my kharma in line, but that's just ridiculous.


Jake

A dozen MIMs and they all had major faults?
What are some of these major faults?

No strings.
Headstock broken off.
They didn't install the body...

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by pchilson

A dozen MIMs and they all had major faults?
What are some of these major faults?

No strings.
Headstock broken off.
They didn't install the body...

Usually it's the bridge off center, or mounted crooked. Several had some of the worst fretwork I've ever seen. One so bad it wouldn't play above the 14th fret without a major leveling. Twisted neck on another. One with a truss rod so low in the channel, you couldn't get a wrench onto it, only about half the nut was showing.

I say it all the time, why anyone would spend money on these when a used Am. Std. can be had so inexpensively is beyond me. I'll never buy another one.


Jake

[Brent Hutto]

Ah but think how cheap the used MiM's come!

If I had the same experience as Jake I would no doubt have the same opinion. But looking through the Fender guitars in my local dealer both the MiM and American ones seem to range from pretty good to darned nice in the fit and finish department. None of them look like a few thousand dollar hand-built acoustic but I've not come across any with serious ugliness either (probably because the dealer fixes or sends them back before putting them on the shelf).

USA or Mexico these are generally mass-market, factory production widgets that roll off an assembly line and are only as good as the QC regime that is enforced.

At the higher price point where the American Fenders are positioned I wouldn't doubt that they ratchet up the setpoint of their quality target. But I'd need to see the guitar before committing to the purchase no matter which. None of them are going to be guaranteed to meet our picky taste for nigh-perfect instruments.

[pchilson]

No disrespect intended Jake but why did you purchase these particular guitars if they had these types of issues instead of another one hanging next to it? Were they mail orders?

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by pchilson

No disrespect intended Jake but why did you purchase these particular guitars if they had these types of issues instead of another one hanging next to it? Were they mail orders?

No offense taken, your not the first guy who doesn't believe my probelms with these things. Several were mail orders, two were on-line classified buys (not from this page). The one with the low truss rod issue, I just didn't notice right off the bat as the neck was in fine form so there was no reason to try to adjust it until spring hit and the weather changed, much like the Cray with the maxed out rod.

I see more than guitars than most folks, been through around 300 electrics in the last ten years. I just like to change things up alot, and often get tired of a color, and that is often the only impetus I need to swap into a new guitar, or sell something I have to buy another.

One of the reasons I've had so many, is that my first real electric was a '90 Am. Std. Tele in Midnight Wine. I shortly after bought a matching strat. I sold them both a couple of years later for other colors, but always wanted another MW strat w/rosewood board. Well they haven't made that color on a US guitar in a LONG time, and they are tough to find. But have always made it on the MIM's. So I kept snapping them up hoping to get a good one. Never did. Right now I am on a similar quest to actually see one of the newer ones in Candy Cola, and see if the color is comparable, but so far, no luck finding one of those either that I can see in person.

Part of my trouble is that if this many QC problems seemingly plague one model, of one color, what am I to expect from the rest of the line? Where would you be with your thoughts on these were you in my shoes?

My creed for for living is "it ain't that hard to do s#!T right." I've been extremely frustrated by these things over the past several years, and will not buy another. I just can't see the value in them either when I can always pick up an Am. Std. used any time I fancy one for $450-$550. I just bought a '93 two weeks ago for $450 out the door, it's a beauty, and needs nothing. Even if an MIM was in good order mechanically, by the time I bought one and upgraded everything that needed it, I'd be over what I spend for a quality US instrument. Doesn't make sense to me.


Jake

[Mark Davis]

Ive owned over 15 MIM Teles Strats and BASS guitars and they were all flawless. There wasnt anything wrong with any of them.

I did buy them all online from a mom and pop shop and he ordered a few of each model and picked out the best ones for me and they all had pro setups with fret leveling crowned and polished.

Ive owned 5 USA made Fenders and they all had flaws of some sort runs in the paint sloppy neck pocket fits.

http://www.marcondo.com/marcondo/RC/index.html

Pics of my Cray are inside that link check it out how good the workmanship is.

[pchilson]

Jake, I can see you've done the sampling by numbers and I don't doubt your word at all. We all know there is good and bad in everything, guitars included. I've only had experience with three, one MIA and two MIM, all good sofar.

Mark, thats one good looker you got there.

[Mark Davis]

Originally Posted by pchilson

Jake, I can see you've done the sampling by numbers and I don't doubt your word at all. We all know there is good and bad in everything, guitars included. I've only had experience with three, one MIA and two MIM, all good sofar.

Mark, thats one good looker you got there.

There are some real good MIM's out there but finding a good one in a shop like GC isnt easy thats one reason they get a bad rep.

[pchilson]

My two MIMs, one current and one former have both been upgraded by previous owners. Both of them received upgraded tuners and pups. I'm changing the neck and mid in mine this evening and hope to have a sound more compatible to my ear. This is certainly not and upgrade forced by workmanship but by choice.
I'm of the mind you need hands on when buying so you can approve or reject the given specimen. I don't think I would ever ebay a guitar, I would consider online from a Sweetwater or the like. Don't fancy the idea of returning one but knowing you can would make me consider it. I would much rather and have just buy them local or craigslist.

Sorry, I've strayed way off topic. I'll stop now.