Any M-Audio/Linn Black Box Mavens Here?

[Anchoret]

Just wondering. I came into one of these recently-discontinued things a few months ago and dismissed it as a doorstop, but recently got bored and gave it another look.

Despite M-Audio's feeble documentation and crucial lack of editing software, it looks like it might have some interesting recording possibilities for advanced users, but the more I doink around with it the more unanswered questions I have.

Any Brainiac here successfully get into this thing in any depth?

Thanks for any useful information from those with direct experience with the unit.

[Tdot]

Wow, they overhauled their website, I didn't know they dropped the Black Box. I have one, and think it's a really cool toy. I guess Line6 Pods just own the market for this slot.

Originally Posted by Anchoret

Despite M-Audio's feeble documentation

The M-Audio site still has support for driver downloads, manuals, and user FAQ's section.

and crucial lack of editing software,

It should have included Ableton Live, and GT Player Express. But will work with any of the popular software titles (GargeBand, ProTools...).

it looks like it might have some interesting recording possibilities for advanced users, but the more I doink around with it the more unanswered questions I have.

I packed mine away before I moved last fall and haven't got it out yet. But you can use it as a stand alone amp/effects modeler with headphones, or use it as an modeler/effects pedal into your real amp, or USB into your computer. The XLR port has phantom power so you can use dynamic and condenser mic's.

Without a manual or guide it can be a puzzling device to start with, but it's worth the time to check it out.

[Anchoret]

Originally Posted by Tdot

Wow, they overhauled their website, I didn't know they dropped the Black Box.

Just recently. I smelled it coming. A lot of buyers were disappointed with the poor documentation and lack of editor, not to mention the egregiously flimsy and pricey optional pedal unit. Rather than correct the situation M-Audio just pulled the plug. The device was at the end of its marketing cycle anyway, I assume.

This is really annoying, as upon closer examination the device has a lot of interesting and sophisticated capabilities, many of which are totally undocumented.

It should have included Ableton Live, and GT Player Express. But will work with any of the popular software titles (GargeBand, ProTools...).

Yes, it came with those (outdated as they are), but there's no editor, which any serious modeler/multi-effects unit requires for intelligent -- and above all, efficient -- deep programming of patches.

Sound Tower has a third-party editor for the Back Box and possibly with the commercial demise of the unit, they will cut this program loose as free orphanware, which would be nice. Fingers crossed.

Going through the disorganized and spotty .PDF documentation still leaves me with huge gaps in what it even takes to scratch-program a preset.

you can...USB into your computer.

My biggest question results from the claim I read elsewhere that if the Black Box is hooked up to the computer via USB in order to, say, beat-synch the track's effects to the song in your recording program, you cannot use the computer's sound card to monitor what you're doing respective to the other tracks, that your sound device is blocked by the Black Box.

This makes no sense to me. How does one monitor the tracks with which he is playing? This seems to defeat the whole purpose of the unit and renders it useless for recording. Was I misinformed about this? I certainly hope so. The documentation does not seem to address any of this.

[Tdot]

Originally Posted by Anchoret

My biggest question results from the claim I read elsewhere that if the Black Box is hooked up to the computer via USB in order to, say, beat-synch the track's effects to the song in your recording program, you cannot use the computer's sound card to monitor what you're doing respective to the other tracks, that your sound device is blocked by the Black Box.

This makes no sense to me. How does one monitor the tracks with which he is playing? This seems to defeat the whole purpose of the unit and renders it useless for recording. Was I misinformed about this? I certainly hope so. The documentation does not seem to address any of this.

That can't be right. It's just an interface to get your guitar signal into the computer, which can be monitored as a track in your software like all the others. They probably plugged headphones into the Black Box, instead of the computer audio.

[Anchoret]

Originally Posted by Tdot

That can't be right.

I certainly hope not.

It's just an interface to get your guitar signal into the computer, which can be monitored as a track in your software like all the others. They probably plugged headphones into the Black Box, instead of the computer audio.

No, I understand that the Black Box connects to the computer (and thus the recording program) through either the S/PDIF digital outs or the analog outs and you can record your tracks with them. It's like most other similar devices in those respects. If I can, I always use the S/PDIF with modelers/effects as it eliminates an additional analog>digital>analog>digital conversion cycle in the signal.

The USB connection, however, is required for the much-ballyhooed beat-synched effects to be clocked from the recording program in the computer so that they are in time with the song you're making. Of course, you have to be able to audibly monitor the other tracks so that you know what you're doing. As I understand it, the USB connection is not communicating any audio signal, but merely the MIDI control data to operate the beat synchronization within the Black Box, and its resulting audio output is going back to the computer via the S/PDIF or analog audio outs. The Black Box has no audio playback input as I understand it.

OK, so far, so good, but the claim is that configuring the USB connection disables any other sound device from the computer, so that you can't play back audio through your soundcard/monitors as long as the USB connection is made to the Black Box. This seems impossible to me also, if for no other reason than the soundcard has to be operational in order to be recording through the S/PDIF or analog audio outs from the Black Box.

I repeatedly heard this odd claim made and accepted elsewhere in a user discussion about the Black Box, and can only assume the explanation was leaving something else out.

[Tdot]

Yes, but I still don't buy that complaint.

Dang, which one of those boxes downstairs has my Black Box in it?

[Anchoret]

Originally Posted by Tdot

Yes, but I still don't buy that complaint.

I've been struggling to find an explanation for it; perhaps that it eliminates the system's soundcard as a MIDI device (logically, this makes more sense to me), though that was not what was said. Perhaps it was implied.

Dang, which one of those boxes downstairs has my Black Box in it?

If you find it and figure it out, let me know.

[Tdot]

Okay I found the brown box with my Black Box. Downloaded the latest driver and realized that I never got the newer firmware updates. The new firmware amp models are even better, but some of the controls are rearranged. I'll have to spend more time with it.

I don't have an S/PDIF cable to play with, but the USB cable does carry audio. I think the complainers just haven't done the correct setup for audio in/out and USB device. I was able to connect the guitar to the Black Box, then USB to my G5 tower, and listen to amp models and all tracks, with headphones plugged into the computer.

I did have to set the sound preferences in my system, and preferences in GarageBand. One thing I did read from M-Audio, if the driver is not installed, the Black Box will have limited computer/recording features regardless of firmware version.

The Sound Tower editor looks pretty straight forward for only $30, but a freebie would be nice.

• G5 dual tower
• Mac OS 10.4.11
• Garageband 2.0.2
• M-Audio Black Box
• driver v1.7-2
• firmware v1.6.4

[analogmike]

I met with M-Audio at NAMM and it is still available. Now it's called the Black Box Reloaded, a software update. I just got one with protools but have not had time to hook it up yet. It seems like a cool audio input device that can do so much more, a great tool for writing and recording.

[Tdot]

The "Reloaded" is the second version (firmware and new plastic label). However I can't find a Black Box product on the current M-Audio site. Which would indicate that it's discontinued.

The original (mine) can be updated to "Reloaded" with a firmware update.

Black Box Reloaded info video

I haven't spent enough time with it to get into all the goodies but it is a slick unit even for the amp models alone.

[Tdot]

FWIW: The Black Box is back on the M-Audio site.