Differences between Pedals and Racks?

[showard]

So, I have been kind of curious lately what is the determining factor for throwing the pedals away and start using rack mount processors?

Is it just that the delay rack mounts and modeling rack mounts give you more options?

What are the essential rack basics for a "new country" guitar player? Some sort of slap back delay and distortion.


I know absolutly nothing about them, so talk down to my level please.

Thanks,
Steve

[Barrett]

So back in the early 80's I used to play through a 65 BF Super Reverb and a non-master volume Marshall Super lead with a 4x12 cab. For effects I used a Ross Compressor, a Boss OD 1 I think, a tube Echoplex and a Crybaby wah. The signal was split to the two amps via an ADA stereo chorus of some sort. The sound was absolutely huge. For reasons that can probably only be best summed up as gear boredom I sold the amps ($300 for the BF Super... sniff, choke) and bought what was all the rage at the time. An ADA MP1 preamp, a Mesa Boogie 50/50 stereo poweramp and an Alesis Quadraverb stereo rack effect unit. Oh, and a BBE sonic maximizer and a Rocktron Hush to tame the whole cacophony. This was all housed in an intimidating 10 space case. I also bought a stereo Marshall 4x12 cab to replace my previous one.
I controlled the settup with a Rockman midi pedal.
I fought with that settup for years. I never sounded the same again. The Quadraverb offered quite a few different effects and eq settings that all pretty much sounded the same. I could save like 128 preset sounds. What did I do? I had four or so presets that I used. Clean, clean chorus with delay, distortion, and distortion with delay. In the mid nineties I sold it all and now play through a TopHat combo with my tube echoplex, Fulldrive 2, a Fulltone Fatboost Crybabay wah and a chorus. The tone I love has returned and the settup is so much simpler.
Now I'm sure there is some killer rack stuff out there today (I know it) and I don't mean to sound too biased against the rack gear. But personally I wish I had stayed with my simple settup. And I REALLY wish I never sold the BF Super aaarggh!!!!! Don't know if this post was helpful or not, hope so. Just my 2c, good luck on your decision. -b

[showard]

Well, I haven't decided anything. Right now I am just curious about the whole thing as I have no idea what it is all about. As I am hear in Missouri, I just know when I go down to Branson and talk with some of the guys playing shows for a living down there, they are always using some type of rack mount. So, actually, you pretty much reminded me in the paragraph above that I have no clue on them, because I didn't understand most of what you said :)

So, do you have to have a preamp to run a rack with say a couple of processors? If you do, that may count me out as I don't want to spend the money. Was the preamp just like a head? What is a midi pedal, just like a stomp controller?

Sorry, don't have much of a clue, trying to get one.

[showard]

Oops,

I asked if you needed the preamp to run it, I meant do you need a poweramp to run it.

[TheGoodTexan]

I've always bumped up against technology when dealing with rack gear. In other words I'd buy a "model 1", then a year later they release the "model 1b" and I'd have to trade up to that. Some serious G.A.S.

Don't get me wrong there are a few examples of collectible rack gear, like the old Ibanez analog delays, or the Tri-Chorus. But most of that stuff gets dumped off into pawn shops and used gear stores, and 10 years later you can get that ADA preamp for $75.

It just seems that with most pedals it's much easier to find a good sound really quickly, as opposed to floating through digital menus forever. ???

[alabubba]

I've always felt that the best I would ever do would be a tube amp up on a stand and a pedalboard that would keep my pedals set-up, protected and ready to play. This gives me the best tone, the most flexibility and the most portability. Plus, it never grows out-dated. The incremental cost of an upgrade is the cost of a new pedal, or a new speaker, etc. not a whole new set-up.

My oldest pedal is one I bought in 1975, I use it as much now as then. All I've done to it is replace the switch with a 3p2t, add a power jack, and wire it for true bypass.

There are times when it may not be on the board, because it is fun to sub pedals in and out of a pedalboard. Kinda find it nice that I'm not locked into any one manufacturer's idea of what good overdrive or distortion is...

[roger]

At Jamboree USA I get to see a lot the pro rigs and I see more Pedalboards than racks. The racks I do see have a pedalboard controller. I prefer the pedal board as it is less of a hassle( I can't afford a guitar Tech) and Stomp boxes seem to be more predictable. It seems to me the best tones I hear are Guitar/Amp guys. I think of the guitar player for Ronnie McDowell, Strat through a Top Hat Plexi with a 2x12 cab. KILLER TONE!!!!

[hippietim]

I have 4 rack mounted effects:[*]Line 6 Echo Pro[*]Line 6 Filter Pro[*]Line 6 Modulation Pro[*]BBE 362

I REALLY like what I can get out of these units. For now I'm still using my pedal equivilants until I figure out the rig I'm going to use for my current band. My current rack also has my MIDI guitar stuff and I'm not sure whether I'm going to use it all or not.

No matter what, I will continue to use my pedals. I'm not giving up my Fulltone Ultimate Octave, Bad Horsie II Wah, Soldano Supercharger, and AnalogMan TS9DX. Those pedals work with either my pedal delay and chorus or with the rack. The rack just provides way more capability.

[Steven]

I went throu the Rack-Experience in the eighties. The biggest problem with that kind of set up IMHO is that you cant tweak your sound "in real time" as opposed to pedals and an amp. You dont have the time during a song to start searching throu the menues to find the volume/pre amp drive/rev level/delay time adjustment. When you find it the song will be over. Also, if you have 128 different sounds in your paches and end up in a venue that needs less bass than you have a lot of tweaking to do. The biggest pros of a pedalboard/amp set up is that you can change your sound easy by just turning the knobs and if you´re not completely satisfied whith one of your effects you just replace that one. What do you do if you like everything about your processor exept the reverb for instance? Should you replace the whole unit or get another one for the reverb? Nowadays I use a pedalboard and a tube amp and I like that a lot more than my old rack (although it looket very cool with all the lights glowing on stage).

[11 Gauge]

...kinda the best of both worlds, if you will.

but i do keep the rack end sparse - no midi switching, eq units, fancy preamp units.

typically my rack stuff is limited to things like my Lexicon MPX 100 for delay/reverb/rotary cab sim effects, plugged into an effects loop and slaved out to a 2nd amp if needed (of course the unit is stereo). i don't switch effects on the fly - the Lexicon uses a stomper type switch for bypassing. just twiddle some knobs (just like an amp or pedal) and onto the next number.

i've also had great luck with the little Alesis Nanoverb. just turn a few knobs and use a bypass stomper.

other than that it's just a few pedals in front.

i don't even use a rack box - just set the unit on top of the amp.

but i always throw these effects into a loop. older amps don't have a loop. if that's the case, no rack effects with those amps, period.

if you're more of a 'pedal guy' like i am, this is a pretty good solution IMO. ymmv.

[Barrett]

with my original post. I ended up going the whole preamp, poweramp route because I was really into having a stereo signal. You don't need a preamp or poweramp to use rack effects, that is just one way and it allowed me to be in stereo. Yes a preamp is similar to a head, just without the power section, (now I'm getting into sketchy territory because there are WAY more technical folks than myself about here). The midi pedal was a stomp controller that allowed you to change the settings of the rack effect as well as the preamp at the same time. So one button would turn off distortion, turn on delay and chorus (or whatever you programmed) with one click.

If you want to play around with a rack unit, all you need is an amp with a decent effects loop and you might get great results, and have some fun playing with it without breaking the bank.
Good luck
-b

[Nick Fanis]

and honestly no "real" rack can even hold a candle next to it.
Midi rack are a pain in the for me and for anyone who does not have the patience of a saint when they break down on stage.
I know that many pros use them but remeber they also use stompboxes and they have dedicated guitar techs who run them.

A few years back I was backstage at a U2 concert in Greece and the guitar tech was actually changing the patches for the EDGE while he was playing (of course the guy had the biggest effect chain I've ever seen!!)

Do yourself a favor buy a few good stompboxes and a nice tube amp and experience devine tone!!!

A telecaster is mandatory too

[TheGoodTexan]

Originally Posted by Nick Fanis

A few years back I was backstage at a U2 concert in Greece and the guitar tech was actually changing the patches for the EDGE while he was playing

Something cool that I've seen at a live show - the guitar player had almost all of his pedals mounted in his rack and wired through a switcher...not a big deal, except that the effects loops were being switched on and off automatically by an iMac laptop that sat atop his rack. The guitar player's iMac was connected to the drummer's iMac, which was generating the drummer's click tone.

So the drummer had all of the measures of the song programmed into a Cakewalk-style program, generating his click - and the guitar player had the same program running, switching his pedals on and off at specific points during the song.

Room for improv? No
Room for concentrating on actually playing the guitar? Yes