Overdrive pedal, and why?

[TeleBrew]

Does anyone out there play through a tube amp that has a built-in drive channel (I have a Fender Hot Rod Deville 4X10, which also has the "more drive" channel, basically an overdrive boost), and also use an overdrive pedal?

If you do, why?

Which pedal do you have and which amp do you use it with?

If you don't, why not?

I don't, or haven't yet at any rate, because I like the drive channel on my amp already, especially the more drive feature. I've always played through an amp, either solid state or tube, that had a dirty/drive channel. I've never owned an overdrive pedal.

I posted a similar query on the amp forum, so my apologies to those who see both posts.

[jjh37854]

well the simple answer is, "because it sounds good"

some people dont like the sound of thier oversdirve channel, so either use the clean with the OD pedal or use teh OD pedal to change the voice of the drive channel. It also can act as a solo boost.

jjh

[Tim Bowen]

My knee jerk reaction is that I historically have not gotten on with multi-channel amps, even the high dollar models. I don't really know that much about the "Hot Rod" series. I occasionally encounter them as "backline" at some of my jobs. I think the clean channel is pretty decent, but the breakup character of the drive channel has always sounded a bit harsh and severe to my ears at real world bandstand volumes. If I were to utilize the drive channel for my purposes, I'd probably keep the gain and saturation fairly low, as to the end result of going for, say, a Rolling Stones type of subtle grind. If I wanted to boost the signal of the drive channel, I'd use a dedicated booster circuit, not an overdrive, distortion, or fuzz.

One of the biggest reasons that I don't get on with drive channels on multi-function amps is because I prefer the sound of analog delays straight into the front of moderately breaking up vintage-style tube amps. With the drive channel on amps, a delay (digital or analog) sounds pretty horrible to me, as placed straight in. On the flip side, I hate the way that delay sounds as placed within an effects loop of a gainy amp (sounds fake and superimposed to me).

I get my best tones by utilizing tube amps with simple circuitry that are moderately breaking up (or on the verge thereof), analog dirt stomps with loads of headroom and minimal inherent compression (unless it's a compressor), and analog delays.

[bowlfreshener]

Because an overdrive pedal makes it go to 11.

[xjazzy]

When I was using my Tech 21 Trademark 60 amp (solid state) I had the overdrive channel of the amp slightly distorted for overdriven rhythm and a Marshall Blues Braker II pedal for the lead playing.
So it was BBII + Overdrive of the amp for lead, Clean and OD channel for rythm.
It was one of the best sounding rigs I had.

[GoldieLocks]

You definitely need to try some Overdrive pedals into the clean channel of your amp. You'll probably be amazed at the difference.

I've tried numerous Overdrives into my Hotrod Deluxe. All of them sound better to me than the overdrive channels in the amp. Good pedals make the amp sound tighter with less Flubb & tonkyness than the amp distortion has.

I've heard that the gain channels in the Hotrod series aren't running through tubes. Only the clean channel. (not sure how true that is). Probably you don't have a separate preamp tube for the Overdrive channel, like most really good amps do. I imagine its still using the tube in the clean channel as a bassic sound.


So...go try some overdrive pedals. (warning - your guitars pickups can greatly affect your overdrive tones). you might want to bring your guitar with you too.

[blacklove]

I never cared for the drive channel of the Hot Rods, but that's just me and the way I play guitar.

If you put a decent overdrive pedal in front of your HR on the drive channel, and dial them in just right, you might hear more harmonic overtones, which can be really nice. More complex than the 'bee in a tin can' sound.

It can't hurt to experiment. You might end up being VERY pleased.

[chickenpicker]

I use a 1985 Sessionette 75, which has two channels; plus a Guyatone PS-015 overdrive.

The key (I think) is setting both the amp and the pedal to low drive levels, so that you get a nice sound, with a bit more drive when the pedal's on. The bee in a tin can sound is for people who haven't learned about tone.

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

You definitely need to try some Overdrive pedals into the clean channel of your amp. You'll probably be amazed at the difference.

I've tried numerous Overdrives into my Hotrod Deluxe. All of them sound better to me than the overdrive channels in the amp. Good pedals make the amp sound tighter with less Flubb & tonkyness than the amp distortion has.

I've heard that the gain channels in the Hotrod series aren't running through tubes. Only the clean channel. (not sure how true that is). Probably you don't have a separate preamp tube for the Overdrive channel, like most really good amps do. I imagine its still using the tube in the clean channel as a bassic sound.


So...go try some overdrive pedals. (warning - your guitars pickups can greatly affect your overdrive tones). you might want to bring your guitar with you too.

+1

When I had my Hotrod Deluxe I never cared for the overdrive channel.

If you run a OD pedal into the clean channel you get a much nicer tone in my opinion. Also you have the benefit of still having the second channel on the amp free if you still like it.

Also both channels on the Hotrod amps are tube powered.

[TeleBrew]

Cool. Thanks for all the advice, especially those of you who chimed in today. I've got an MXR Custom Shop GT-OD on the way ($89.99 w/free shipping!). I like that it's a little hotter than your average OD pedal, but you can still choke it back if you want. I'll let you all know how much I really like it once it arrives and I've had more time to play with it.

BTW, I like the drive channel sound on my Hot Rod Deville, but it's more of a distorted sound than a true classic OD tone, I guess.

I will certainly try the MXR on the clean channel, as suggested by GoldieLocks & Boneyguy. Thanks folks!

[SabuJSE]

Fulltone OCD. Adds bite to my clean channel, and thick stauration to my overdrive channel. Cleans up wonderfully - in both channels - when the guitar volume is turned down.

Gives me many more tonal options - fantastic wee pedal, that one.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

I've heard that the gain channels in the Hotrod series aren't running through tubes. Only the clean channel. (not sure how true that is). Probably you don't have a separate preamp tube for the Overdrive channel, like most really good amps do. I imagine its still using the tube in the clean channel as a bassic sound.

It's true.

In both drive settings, solid state diodes and transistors are used.

It's kind of like having an overdrive pedal (in this case, 2) inside of your amp.

The problem with SS overdrive in a tube amp isn't so much the fact that it's solid state - it's usually crude circuitry, with little or no adjustability. Diodes are either on or off when there is sufficient voltage present (usually 1~6 volts). Thus, they clip hard. To soften the clipping, they will typically be bypassed with capacitors, and different types of diodes may be mixed...

Tim Bowen alluded to another issue with amps such as the Hot Rods - harshness when using an effects loop. Even when using a great pedal in a Hot Rod's effects loop can present a problem - solid state buffering. If your pedal or effect drives the "return" on the amp too hard, it's gonna clip in a most unfriendly way.

[boneyguy]

QUOTE=GoldieLocks;948055] ................

I've heard that the gain channels in the Hotrod series aren't running through tubes. Only the clean channel. (not sure how true that is). Probably you don't have a separate preamp tube for the Overdrive channel, like most really good amps do. I imagine its still using the tube in the clean channel as a bassic sound. ............ .[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

It's true.

In both drive settings, solid state diodes and transistors are used.

It's kind of like having an overdrive pedal (in this case, 2) inside of your amp.

The problem with SS overdrive in a tube amp isn't so much the fact that it's solid state - it's usually crude circuitry, with little or no adjustability. Diodes are either on or off when there is sufficient voltage present (usually 1~6 volts). Thus, they clip hard. To soften the clipping, they will typically be bypassed with capacitors, and different types of diodes may be mixed...

Tim Bowen alluded to another issue with amps such as the Hot Rods - harshness when using an effects loop. Even when using a great pedal in a Hot Rod's effects loop can present a problem - solid state buffering. If your pedal or effect drives the "return" on the amp too hard, it's gonna clip in a most unfriendly way.

All channels of the HotRod amps are tube powered. They have s.s. rectifiers, reverb driver and effects loop but the drive channel is not s.s. It is tube powered.

Preamp:
Clean: 12AX7 and ½ 12AX7, Drive: Two 12AX7s
Power:
Class AB1, 2 x 6L6GC

[amp boy]

i use the Durham Crazy Horse.
it's all i need or want from a driving pedal.
i also, primarly use it through a clean channel.
i have a cheap vox vr30 with reverb. it's the best $200 amp you can get,
well for me anyways. since it's made in china you can find some lemons, but if you look you can find a good one.

[Tele-phone man]

Boneguy has it right; the lead modes of the HRDlx are all-tube signal path. What confuses some people when they see the schematic are the switching FETs. There are 2 FETs that are used purely as switches to bring cathode-bypass capacitors into the circuit to increase the gain in More Drive mode. There are no clipping diodes. All the other transistors and diodes are either in the switching circuits or in the effects loop or reverb driver.

That said, I agree that the drive settings on stock HRD amps are not the most inspiring lead sounds available. This harshness occurs in just about any amp that tries to get massive gain out of two stages of 12AX7 gain. However, I used to get absolutely killer lead sounds out of the drive mode by keeping the gain at about 6 and then feeding the amp a Tube Screamer clone set to a slight boost with mild dirt. The combination works because no one stage is being driven to complete saturation, neither in the pedal nor in the amp. I've found that this basic recipe works for just about every amp I've tried, and usually much better than the amp drive all by itself. It doesn't work as well when using a pedal that has too much bass. Best results occur with a pedal that trims some bass, such as a Tube Screamer.

[11 Gauge]

--

[greggorypeccary]

I love the normal channel in my HRDx, when turned up a bit it's way fat! When I hit Ms. Foxy Brown, I get more of a Marshally sound (with a bit of tweed). Hate the drive channel...

[TeleBrew]

I received my MXR GT-OD today & it's really great. I played it through the clean channel on my HRD & it sounds fantastic. It gives a nice boost to the drive channel, too, but with a much different sound. Now when used alone, to my ears, the drive channel sounds more like a distortion pedal when compared to the clean channel & the GT-OD. The drive channel isn't a "classic" OD sound at all. The GT-OD does not sound very good with More Drive switched on, though. Too much boost, perhaps?

Adding an OD pedal made my rig even more versatile, in that I have clean, overdrive, distortion (Drive), distortion boost (More Drive), along with my Boss MD-2 for nastier distortion, and with my Little Big Muff for fuzzy sustain.

Now I get it!!

[Teleblooz]

Originally Posted by bowlfreshener

Because an overdrive pedal makes it go to 11.

My Blues Jr goes to 12. Nyah-nyah!

[fauxsuper]

One of the things you should try is to set the gain fairly low on the pedal and the output level on the pedal fairly high: you're going to slam the input tubes of the amp with this signal which will be another source of tone/distortion. You can then use the guitar volume to control how hard you hit the pedal.

I have an Ibanez SD-9 that I set the gain just on the edge of distortion: and then I set the level for a slight boost when I hit the pedal for solos. I usually set the levels with the guitar's volume backed off a mite. This gives me lots of options. If I'm using a guitar with two volume controls I use an Earnie Ball volume pedal to do this.

Setting everything on the "just starting to distort" level can give the volume control on your guitar an almost amazing level of control and give you an amazing range of sounds.

Think of the pedal/amp combination as interactive and play with the various level controls to find the most useful sounds: EXPERIMENT!