Banjo sound possible?

[1four5]

I play my tele clean, through a Roland JC120. We do mostly country and gospel. I'm also the banjo player, switching to a pick up equipped acoustic banjo for a percentage of our songs. I don't have a lot of experience with effects, or even if it's possible, but it sure would make life a lot easier if I could electronically turn my tele into a somewhat convincing banjo flavor for a few songs, instead of lugging two instruments and switching all the time.

I even was interested in the Line6 Variax because of this, and actually liked the banjo setting on that thing...but the guitar itself was a pos. I would never give up my tele anyways...

Any ideas? Thanks

[Mike Simpson]

Tune to open G, roll off the bass, play with fingerpicks... an acoustic simulator pedal might help too.... probably be easier to bring a banjo.

[trevarty]

I'd rather see and hear someone playing a banjo rather than someone trying to replicate a banjo.

[jussishow]

What about using some ring modulator / resonator type effect ? I've never really used any of 'em, but when browsing through the patches/settings of the multi FX boxes I've had there's usually one Ringmod/resonator patch that produces a "tincanlike" sound ...

/J

[Skully]

I even was interested in the Line6 Variax because of this, and actually liked the banjo setting on that thing...but the guitar itself was a pos. I would never give up my tele anyways...

Did you try the 600 model? It's a quality guitar and its next is very Fender-like.

Side note: I just ordered a cheapo Rogue banjo from Musiciansfriend.com for $79.99. It was their Stupid Deal of the Day. Some Rogue instruments can be pretty damn good. A year or two ago, I ordered a Rogue acoustic/mandolin two-fer package from Musicians Friend for, you guessed it, $79.99 and, while the mandolin was nothing to write home about, I liked acoustic more than many other much more expensive guitars I've purchased.

[1four5]

Thanks for the insights and comments! I do play my tele in open G and use finger picks, and even have my low E replaced with a .009 tuned to a high G. The Variax I tried was a Acoustic 700. I played two of them in two different states and they were the same tight lifeless medocure guitars with so-so action. Cool concept, great sound, but felt cheap. Way too much money for that quality, and when I read the reviews on their electronic's reliability, I was scared away, at least for now.

I do own and a Boss acoustic pedal and a noise supressor but not much luck there. I gues I'm fanitsizing about a "banjo" pedal like, with an attack knob, plunk knob, fastfade knob, and tincan boost

I started my banjo career with a borrowed Rogue B30 banjo, not too bad as long as you can get the 5th string peg to hold tune. Caution: Banjos are the brunt of a lot of jokes...but they are very addictive when you get your hands on one, especially if you are familure with open G tuning.

[ramseybella]

This works!!
But it works best on a Strat switch in the 4th position middle and bridge pickup then take a small thin kitchen towel folded in half long ways, drape it over the neck above the fifth fret cord below the fifth.
It takes a little playing around with but it simulates a banjo darn good!!
You will get the idea.

[Tim Bowen]

My banjo "career" is every bit of two months old, so take it with it a grain of salt.


A bandmate recently moved up to a Deering electric banjo (like Bela Fleck's, minus whatever in the heck that guy's got going with the mods). The Deering has sounded great at recent shows. As barter for cutting studio tracks, my mate recently gave me his Goldtone, like this one:

http://www.goldtone.com/products/pages/ebm.asp

Sounds and plays great at home, and I'm highly thankful. I'll take it out with the pop band shortly, and hopefully it'll be a good fit.


Like I said, I'm no banjo vet, but I've worked with a few, and I've noticed some consistencies among their comments, as follows:


* If there are no volume issues/loud rhythm section to be concerned with, there's no substitute for a well-mic'ed acoustic banjo.

* If one works with a full band and a rhythm section, get a dedicated electric banjo. Whatever nuances of a mic'ed acoustic that might be lost, are made up for in spades within this situation, as to sheer practicality and a reasonable amount of predictability, in dealing with unpredictable house sound and techs.

* The banjo guys that I know haven't warmed up to the Variax, but that's not a big surprise.



I don't see any harm in looking to pedals and whatnot for this application, anymore than that of emulating a sitar... however, my experience with any sort of instrument has always been that, once one has enjoyed an organic relationship with such, it's quite tough to be even marginally satisfied with anything that strays too far from the real deal, even for a "quick fix".

[Johnir]

I also have a Goldtone EBM banjo as a supplement to an ordinary Goldtone.

The EBM is very convinient to tour with. It can fit in an ordinary gig-bag and doesn't weight a ton.

It has two pickups:
An internal humbucker that sits flush to the head. It sounds very acousticbanjo like with some bass roll off. It also has a tele-looking pickup in the neck position that sounds more like an electric guitar.

The downside with this electric bano is that I found the output a bit weak , and it needs some EQ'ing. I use a SansAmp Acoustic DI.

I've tried to make the tele sound like a banjo by tuning it in G and EQ a bit, but what you don't get is that short plunking decay of the notes on a banjo.

[1four5]

Thanks again for a lot of good comments...interesting idea with the towel, but it killed everything but a slight plunk ...however, some fun experimenting ensued...weaving paper into the strings just forward of the bridge (buzz city) then thin plastic (worse buzz) then shoelace (Hey we're on to something!) and finally yarn. Yarn worked, and the sound was interesting. Turned the original sound into a short plunk...but then bringing a little reverb and short delay back into it...got pretty close. Nothing I'd use in a show though...(um, excuse me for a few minuted while I yarn up my Tele for the next number ). Fun, but I think my banjo is still safe.

I also own a Gold Tone EBT, and have used it, but have mixed empotions. It's more versitile than a straight up banjo, but certianly not a guitar replacment for slower songs where a banjo doesn't fit, and for banjo numbers, I like the sound of my pick-up equipped acoustic banjo a lot more. The EBT is sort of stuck in between, not quite as good as a banjo but close, and switching the to neck pick-up it's not quite guitar, but close.
http://www.banjohangout.ws/users/pho...8151822007.jpg
If I was forced to use only one instrument, it would be a good choice (and the reason I bought it) but it doesn't quite make it in either direction. I rather have a really good guitar that I could coax a banjo sound out of (the reason for this thread) or just keep doing what I'm doing and switching

[SlideGuy123]

The most convincing banjo sound I've heard from a guitar involved a synth pickup. The tone was right, but what really made it work was that the guy played some accurate banjo rolls. I've been playing banjo for 30 years, and I thought it sounded like the real deal.

[bender-freak]

Originally Posted by SlideGuy123

The most convincing banjo sound I've heard from a guitar involved a synth pickup. The tone was right, but what really made it work was that the guy played some accurate banjo rolls. I've been playing banjo for 30 years, and I thought it sounded like the real deal.

you got it in there while i was reading the above posts......anyhow, another vote here for going the synth route; easy to mount, adjust and learn, and if by chance you play with thumb pick and fingers at all times on guitar as some of us do, the banjo "licks" will come overnight almost...

i use a Roland GR09 synth module, Roland GK2A synth pup on all my gigging teles, lp's, 335 types...plus B/G benders on all my giggers and B/G/A bender on one Tele....the GK2A pup is cheap; synth module not so cheap, but the beauty of the synth world is banjo is certainly not the sum total of it.....piano,sax, trumpet, coronet, trombone, fiddle, string ensemble, Hammond B3, pedal steel, harmonica, literally almost every intrument known to the civilized world can be convincingly done via synth and you don't have to carry multiple instruments; just one....minor drawback, need to use two amps or as i do; an actual full 2 channel amp...more "heavy" to pack, i know, but the benefits are priceless....cheers

[1four5]

You've got my attention. I use a Roland JC120 two channel amp already (for two instruments), and my Tele is tuned gGDGBD (g=high g) and when I play banjo numbers on it, I play banjo rolls and licks. When I play guitar numbers, it's the low G, with some interesting high g stuff every now and then. 100% of my playing is finger picked. I may look into the synth, Thanks!!!

[bender-freak]

Originally Posted by 1four5

You've got my attention. I use a Roland JC120 two channel amp already (for two instruments), and my Tele is tuned gGDGBD (g=high g) and when I play banjo numbers on it, I play banjo rolls and licks. When I play guitar numbers, it's the low G, with some interesting high g stuff every now and then. 100% of my playing is finger picked. I may look into the synth, Thanks!!!

sounds like you already have the amp part covered nicely...myself, i use a little reverb, comp, and delay on guitar "side"..but run dry for the synth side, seems to work best for my applications, anyway....i am mainly a country/jazzer/Chet Atkins wannabe on guitar.....

as far as different tunings i personally stick with standard e,b,g,d,a,e always...when i do synth banjos or whatever i will use different chord shapes...i find it helps if you try to synth another instrument it becomes necessary to "think" that instrument as far as licks, phrasing, chord voicings, etc.....i know what i mean, but probably am not explaining it well....good luck however you decide to go...cheers

[Tim Bowen]

Originally Posted by 1four5

I also own a Gold Tone EBT, and have used it, but have mixed empotions. It's more versitile than a straight up banjo, but certianly not a guitar replacment for slower songs where a banjo doesn't fit, and for banjo numbers, I like the sound of my pick-up equipped acoustic banjo a lot more. The EBT is sort of stuck in between, not quite as good as a banjo but close, and switching the to neck pick-up it's not quite guitar, but close.

If I was forced to use only one instrument, it would be a good choice (and the reason I bought it) but it doesn't quite make it in either direction. I rather have a really good guitar that I could coax a banjo sound out of (the reason for this thread) or just keep doing what I'm doing and switching

What sort of pickup are you using with your acoustic banjo? I read that you use the Roland, which is a fairly forgiving amp. The only real world options for me are whatever medium wattage guitar amp(s) I'm playing (which, tonally, is likely a non-option) or DI'ed through the house system - same options as with my mandolin. Any experience with your pickup through a PA, as DI'ed? I have a Hohner acoustic banjo that I'm curious about outfitting a pickup within.

Mic'ing is an option in an acoustic setting, but I have my eye more on the full (loud) full band thing. I appreciate the synth thing, but I have to say that I've yet to hear a Roland or Variax instrument emulation in an aggressive live playing situation that didn't sound grainy or fake (to me); however, I've heard a variety of different instrument emulations that sounded acceptable (to me) at low to moderate volumes.

I used the Goldtone with my acoustic duo (DI'ed) over the weekend, and while I enjoyed it immensely, I've not been doing this long enough to have developed a solid and intelligent opinion about it... I did a gig earlier this eve with the aforementioned bandmate that uses the Deering electric, which once again sounded fantastic. That guy routes his Les Paul, Framus lap steel, and Deering through a simple pedalboard and a high headroom Musicman guitar amp, and for the most part, sounds like a million bucks.

High headroom guitar amp would be a buzzkill for my electric guitar approach, so that's not a routing option. Any thoughts on the DI/house sound approach with full band?

[1four5]

My first banjo in a band experience was mic'ing acoustically...never again what a feedback headache. So far I've never gone direct into our PA or a house PA, but I have gone line out from my amp, using it as an eq and moniter, and that's alaways worked out good. I'm using the exact same pick up in my acoustic banjo that is in the Gold Tone electric banjo. It's the SMP or sliding mag pick-up. In the EBT it's mounted at the edge of the 8" head and the strings are fairly close, and there is no adjustment. The same pick up mounted much further back (towards the bridge) with the strings further from it, and with an 11" drum head has a much deeper tone and MUCH more balanced with plenty of knob room on my amp.

[Tim Bowen]

Thanks for following up, Dean. The prospect of a proper sound check for this week's acoustic duo job is questionable at best, and there's definitely not time to involve my Guild acoustic amp (with four 8"s and a tweeter, I've my doubts as to whether this would be a banjo-friendly pairing anyway); so I'll likely play it safe and again DI the Goldtone. This is all brand new to me, so I've a long road of trial & error ahead of me. Always educational, sometimes frustrating, but the process seems to be unavoidable.