in search of .... the perfect fuzz

Ringo · April 13th, 2003, 06:49 PM

I'm looking for a fuzz pedal that will nail the Ernie Isley tone ( as on Who's That Lady etc...)
supposedly he used the old EH Big Muffs.
I've had a few of them and some of the new ones, only one of the old ones that I had was close.
Any suggestions?
Thanks

genelovesjez · April 13th, 2003, 08:35 PM

It sounds to me like he's using more than just fuzz - possibly a compressor, and definitely some type of modulation effect, like a phaser or chorus (the whooshing is somewhat reminiscent of my Voodoo Vibe chorus). You might want to check out a germ fuzz.

Ringo · April 14th, 2003, 12:09 AM

I know he's using some other effects, supposedly he uses a Maestro PSA1 phaser.

hawaiibuckeye · July 7th, 2003, 10:18 PM

great question... Did you find any suitable solutions? The tone in that song has gotta be one of the all time greats.

Steven · July 8th, 2003, 12:04 AM

It may be slightly of topic sound wise (I dont know how Ernie Isley sounds) but I use the BJF Pink Purple Fuzz and I love it (although it was expensive). It gives you a lot of different Fuzz sounds and it realy exels in the Strat into clean Fender amp category. Muzictoyz sell it. Check out the mp3s!

http://www.musictoyz.com/

(Never bought anything from Musictoyz so I dont know how they are)

MJ Harnish · July 8th, 2003, 12:40 AM

Musictoyz has a pretty notorious reputation of selling you stuff they don't have in stock, charging your CC right away, and then taking months and months to deliver. I've talked with some people who've got there stuff right away and others who are still waiting for a pedal or pedals 8 months after they ordered them. YMMV.

If anyone remembers J&S Music, this is the exact same type of behavior you got out of those guys right up until they folded up shop, taking a lot of people's $$$ with them.

MJ Harnish · July 8th, 2003, 12:54 AM

Nailing that tone is going be tough b/c it was probably created in the control room as much as through a set of pedals. To my ears, I hear a phaser set pretty mildly. The fuzz itself does sound a lot like a BMP though it lacks the bottom end girth through some combination EQing and the pedal's tone control. The phaser might also be playing a role here since phase cancellation may be altering the tone. Alternatively that might be some sort of octave up effect or octave fuzz instead. It also sounds pretty compressed which probably happen in the control room.

You might try a BMP modded to the specs of the original "triangle knob" ones which used smaller coupling caps (0.1uF vs 1.0uF in most later BMPs); this would let through less bass and helps clear up the congestion of the pedal (it sounds a bit less "Siamese Dream" like).

An alternative would be to fool around with an octave fuzz (like a Roger Mayer Tychobrae or the Fulltone version) which can get you much closer to that synthesizer, ball-park organ kind of fuzz tone. Do you have access to a Danelectro French Toast (I think that's the name for their FTM clone); you might fool with that just to see if it will get you in the ballpark before investing or seeking out a more expensive type of octave fuzz (they all sound different).

genelovesjez · July 8th, 2003, 02:21 PM

A flanger might help too.

hearmytrain · July 8th, 2003, 02:48 PM

[quote="Ringo"]I'm looking for a fuzz pedal that will nail the Ernie Isley tone ( as on Who's That Lady etc...)
supposedly he used the old EH Big Muffs.

I think i remember an interview with him about the time the song was released...he intentionally was doing the Jimi vibe and i think it was a silicon (Red) FF into a Univibe (if you listen to BOG you can hear tones that Ernie was picking up on)...Brad

Brad · July 8th, 2003, 03:14 PM

Now, I think I remeber a Guitar Player artice stating he used a Roland Jet Phaser ( or Bee Baa ) for Who's that Lady. I could be wrong. I could be dreaming......but somewhere in that impacted gray matter known as my brain is a rememberance of Ernie and a Jet Phase. I've never heard ( let alone seen ) one, so....take it for what it's worth!

MJ Harnish · July 8th, 2003, 03:32 PM

Hmmm, so far we have 3 different interviews and 3 different rigs described. :? Maybe he was actually use a Line6 POD prototype

moosapotamus · July 8th, 2003, 03:45 PM

There were a few folks over at Aron's who built Jet Phaser clones that, reportedly, NAILED Ernie Isley's "Who's that Lady?" sound. fwiw :)

~ Charlie

Tim Swartz · July 8th, 2003, 04:44 PM

I'm pretty sure that song predates any Roland pedals ('72?). It has been long touted that the phaser was the big square Maestro job with the big colored switches, which I guess is believable, there just weren't too many phasers at that time, it would be prior to MXR. I'm not sure if the Small Stone was out yet or not, it really sounds more like one of these to me, as that Maestro is a bit wimpy on the woosh woosh. As for the fuzz, Big Muff is certainly a probabability, but the big silver wedge Maestro Fuzz pedals (with the balls control) could also do this (the big wedge phasers could also be another phaser possibility). It is definitely the fuzz into the phase. Definitely a great sound!

jordanl · July 8th, 2003, 06:30 PM

according to guitar player(Dec 02 p.73) it was the Roland AP-7 jet phase.

Ringo · July 8th, 2003, 08:25 PM

I don't think it's a flanger, at least not a pedal flanger .
I had one of the Maestro PSA1 phasers, that and an old Big Muff get pretty dang close IMO.
I'm really pretty sure that it isn't a Univibe, doesn't have that "warble" that a Univibe does, listen to some Hendrix and Trower, you'll see what I mean.
The Maestro's are GREAT sounding phasers, but they are HUGE, AC powered, and leak some signal even bypassed ( so do the Phase 90's that I've owned!)
I really don't hear an octave in Who's That Lady, some of the other Isley tunes Ernie was using an octave fuzz for sure.
So here's my take, compression ( pedal or studio) Maestro Phase - as mentioned this predates the Roland phaser, probably an early model Big Muff or maybe a Maestro fuzz, to my ears the Fuzz Faces just don't get that smooth tone that Ernie has on record.
Somebody ought to try and email Ernie and find out what he used!
Fun thread!
And I had a Dano French Toast, that definately isn't the tone! too rude!

Ringo · July 8th, 2003, 08:48 PM

I just did a search and found this site
http://guitargeek.com/index.php
The Guitar Rig Database, they have our man Ernie listed, according to their site he used ( uses?) Cry Baby, Big Muff, Maestro Phase, Roger Mayer Octavia A/B box into a Marshal and an old Acoustic amp.
Who knows for sure but it's a cool site, check it out!

Tim Swartz · July 8th, 2003, 11:17 PM

I don't think there were any pedal flangers (or even rack) available in the early '70s. I think the first one was the Electric Mistress (Filter/Matrix, not the tamed down Deluxe version) and that came out in about '76 or '77, followed shortly after by the ADA and MXR. These came about with advent of the bucket-brigade delay chips...as did a slew of chorus and delay devices.

wink12 · July 11th, 2003, 08:23 PM

Just found an article from a Guitar Player from May of 1990. He was interviewed about his solo cd High Wire-which is excellent. Anyways, he said his tone on the new songs are similar to "That Lady"." Getting that tone involves using a fuzzbox like a Rat, a Strat, a little purple flange box by Boss (BF-2), and amp." I've also heard it was a muff he used but who knows.

April 13th, 2003, 06:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ringo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis TN Posts: 1,909	in search of .... the perfect fuzz I'm looking for a fuzz pedal that will nail the Ernie Isley tone ( as on Who's That Lady etc...) supposedly he used the old EH Big Muffs. I've had a few of them and some of the new ones, only one of the old ones that I had was close. Any suggestions? Thanks

April 14th, 2003, 12:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ringo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis TN Posts: 1,909	re fuzz I know he's using some other effects, supposedly he uses a Maestro PSA1 phaser.

July 7th, 2003, 10:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
hawaiibuckeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 21	ultimate fuzz great question... Did you find any suitable solutions? The tone in that song has gotta be one of the all time greats.

July 8th, 2003, 12:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
Steven Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 511	Ultimate fuzz It may be slightly of topic sound wise (I dont know how Ernie Isley sounds) but I use the BJF Pink Purple Fuzz and I love it (although it was expensive). It gives you a lot of different Fuzz sounds and it realy exels in the Strat into clean Fender amp category. Muzictoyz sell it. Check out the mp3s! http://www.musictoyz.com/ (Never bought anything from Musictoyz so I dont know how they are)

July 8th, 2003, 12:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
MJ Harnish Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hattingen, Germany Posts: 457	Musictoyz has a pretty notorious reputation of selling you stuff they don't have in stock, charging your CC right away, and then taking months and months to deliver. I've talked with some people who've got there stuff right away and others who are still waiting for a pedal or pedals 8 months after they ordered them. YMMV. If anyone remembers J&S Music, this is the exact same type of behavior you got out of those guys right up until they folded up shop, taking a lot of people's $$$ with them. __________________ MJ Harnish Suburbs: Where they cut down all the trees and then name the streets after them.

April 13th, 2003, 08:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
genelovesjez Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Age: 41 Posts: 3,735	It sounds to me like he's using more than just fuzz - possibly a compressor, and definitely some type of modulation effect, like a phaser or chorus (the whooshing is somewhat reminiscent of my Voodoo Vibe chorus). You might want to check out a germ fuzz.

July 8th, 2003, 12:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
MJ Harnish Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hattingen, Germany Posts: 457	Back to the original question... Nailing that tone is going be tough b/c it was probably created in the control room as much as through a set of pedals. To my ears, I hear a phaser set pretty mildly. The fuzz itself does sound a lot like a BMP though it lacks the bottom end girth through some combination EQing and the pedal's tone control. The phaser might also be playing a role here since phase cancellation may be altering the tone. Alternatively that might be some sort of octave up effect or octave fuzz instead. It also sounds pretty compressed which probably happen in the control room. You might try a BMP modded to the specs of the original "triangle knob" ones which used smaller coupling caps (0.1uF vs 1.0uF in most later BMPs); this would let through less bass and helps clear up the congestion of the pedal (it sounds a bit less "Siamese Dream" like). An alternative would be to fool around with an octave fuzz (like a Roger Mayer Tychobrae or the Fulltone version) which can get you much closer to that synthesizer, ball-park organ kind of fuzz tone. Do you have access to a Danelectro French Toast (I think that's the name for their FTM clone); you might fool with that just to see if it will get you in the ballpark before investing or seeking out a more expensive type of octave fuzz (they all sound different). __________________ MJ Harnish Suburbs: Where they cut down all the trees and then name the streets after them.

July 8th, 2003, 02:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
genelovesjez Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Age: 41 Posts: 3,735	A flanger might help too.

July 8th, 2003, 02:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
hearmytrain Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Marietta Ga Posts: 188	Re: in search of .... the perfect fuzz [quote="Ringo"]I'm looking for a fuzz pedal that will nail the Ernie Isley tone ( as on Who's That Lady etc...) supposedly he used the old EH Big Muffs. I think i remember an interview with him about the time the song was released...he intentionally was doing the Jimi vibe and i think it was a silicon (Red) FF into a Univibe (if you listen to BOG you can hear tones that Ernie was picking up on)...Brad

July 8th, 2003, 03:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
Brad Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 1,294	Fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Now, I think I remeber a Guitar Player artice stating he used a Roland Jet Phaser ( or Bee Baa ) for Who's that Lady. I could be wrong. I could be dreaming......but somewhere in that impacted gray matter known as my brain is a rememberance of Ernie and a Jet Phase. I've never heard ( let alone seen ) one, so....take it for what it's worth! __________________ We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old becasue we stop playing.

July 8th, 2003, 03:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
MJ Harnish Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hattingen, Germany Posts: 457	Hmmm, so far we have 3 different interviews and 3 different rigs described. :? Maybe he was actually use a Line6 POD prototype __________________ MJ Harnish Suburbs: Where they cut down all the trees and then name the streets after them.

July 8th, 2003, 03:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
moosapotamus TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 10	There were a few folks over at Aron's who built Jet Phaser clones that, reportedly, NAILED Ernie Isley's "Who's that Lady?" sound. fwiw :) ~ Charlie __________________ www.moosapotamus.com

July 8th, 2003, 04:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,812	I'm pretty sure that song predates any Roland pedals ('72?). It has been long touted that the phaser was the big square Maestro job with the big colored switches, which I guess is believable, there just weren't too many phasers at that time, it would be prior to MXR. I'm not sure if the Small Stone was out yet or not, it really sounds more like one of these to me, as that Maestro is a bit wimpy on the woosh woosh. As for the fuzz, Big Muff is certainly a probabability, but the big silver wedge Maestro Fuzz pedals (with the balls control) could also do this (the big wedge phasers could also be another phaser possibility). It is definitely the fuzz into the phase. Definitely a great sound!

July 8th, 2003, 06:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
jordanl Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Farmingdale, NY Posts: 554	Roland AP-7 Jet Phaser according to guitar player(Dec 02 p.73) it was the Roland AP-7 jet phase.

July 8th, 2003, 08:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ringo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis TN Posts: 1,909	lot's of different opinions here for sure! I don't think it's a flanger, at least not a pedal flanger . I had one of the Maestro PSA1 phasers, that and an old Big Muff get pretty dang close IMO. I'm really pretty sure that it isn't a Univibe, doesn't have that "warble" that a Univibe does, listen to some Hendrix and Trower, you'll see what I mean. The Maestro's are GREAT sounding phasers, but they are HUGE, AC powered, and leak some signal even bypassed ( so do the Phase 90's that I've owned!) I really don't hear an octave in Who's That Lady, some of the other Isley tunes Ernie was using an octave fuzz for sure. So here's my take, compression ( pedal or studio) Maestro Phase - as mentioned this predates the Roland phaser, probably an early model Big Muff or maybe a Maestro fuzz, to my ears the Fuzz Faces just don't get that smooth tone that Ernie has on record. Somebody ought to try and email Ernie and find out what he used! Fun thread! And I had a Dano French Toast, that definately isn't the tone! too rude!

July 8th, 2003, 08:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
Ringo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis TN Posts: 1,909	check out this site, gear set ups of the stars I just did a search and found this site http://guitargeek.com/index.php The Guitar Rig Database, they have our man Ernie listed, according to their site he used ( uses?) Cry Baby, Big Muff, Maestro Phase, Roger Mayer Octavia A/B box into a Marshal and an old Acoustic amp. Who knows for sure but it's a cool site, check it out!

July 8th, 2003, 11:17 PM	#17 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,812	I don't think there were any pedal flangers (or even rack) available in the early '70s. I think the first one was the Electric Mistress (Filter/Matrix, not the tamed down Deluxe version) and that came out in about '76 or '77, followed shortly after by the ADA and MXR. These came about with advent of the bucket-brigade delay chips...as did a slew of chorus and delay devices.

July 11th, 2003, 08:23 PM	#18 (permalink)
wink12 NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: indiana Posts: 2	Just found an article from a Guitar Player from May of 1990. He was interviewed about his solo cd High Wire-which is excellent. Anyways, he said his tone on the new songs are similar to "That Lady"." Getting that tone involves using a fuzzbox like a Rat, a Strat, a little purple flange box by Boss (BF-2), and amp." I've also heard it was a muff he used but who knows.