Are 'vintage' RATs that good?

[logan2z]

I'm in the market for a fuzz pedal and the RAT is on my radar. I've been watching some eBay auctions and even the rattiest 'vintage' RATs seem to fetch well over $120. Are they that much better than current production RATs? Is the LM308 chip that crucial to the sound of the RAT? My hype-o-meter is pegged.

[artdecade]

The LM308 is the key, but you don't need to spend big bucks to get one. There are clones and ProCo reissues that all use them. Just look for the chip and don't worry too much about the other stuff.

[logan2z]

Originally Posted by artdecade

The LM308 is the key, but you don't need to spend big bucks to get one. There are clones and ProCo reissues that all use them. Just look for the chip and don't worry too much about the other stuff.

The only ProCo reissue I'm aware of that uses the LM308 is the 85 Reissue White Face and that's $200 new. Used ones are well over $100 too. I'll look at some clones.

[artdecade]

You can find new ProCo Reissues new on eBay for 135 BIN. I have bought a couple from this seller in the past.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Proco-Limite...item256ea338c1

ProCo didn't really stop cutting back on LM308s until the early 2000s so there are a lot of used ones out there. I see a big box reissue with the 308 on the 'bay right now for 70 bucks.

[logan2z]

Originally Posted by artdecade

You can find new ProCo Reissues new on eBay for 135 BIN. I have bought a couple from this seller in the past.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Proco-Limite...item256ea338c1

ProCo didn't really stop cutting back on LM308s until the early 2000s so there are a lot of used ones out there. I see a big box reissue with the 308 on the 'bay right now for 70 bucks.

Thanks for the pointers. I somehow overlooked the auction for the big box reissue

[Dr. Bill]

The RAT is a great pedal, but I don't think of it as a fuzz. It's a distortion pedal, and a very good one at that.

[ArchangelYabbo]

Thanks for the link...
Any reason to mod a ProCo Reissue? Or use as is?

[gypsyseven]

Yes, they are.
I had both, an older one and the current RAT2.
The old one sounded great, the new one not...

[p8t8r]

What would you say about this?

[gypsyseven]

Originally Posted by p8t8r

What would you say about this?

I had one of these, but sold it unfortunately

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Dr. Bill

The RAT is a great pedal, but I don't think of it as a fuzz. It's a distortion pedal, and a very good one at that.

Actually, it's a fuzz, and a distortion, and an OD. And it kills at all three, which is all the more impressive.

If John Scofield and Bill Frisell can use a Rat for just a touch of heat to give that slightly breaking up amp sound, it might just make it worthy of being considered king of the drive boxes.

[jbmando]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

Actually, it's a fuzz, and a distortion, and an OD. And it kills at all three, which is all the more impressive.

If John Scofield and Bill Frisell can use a Rat for just a touch of heat to give that slightly breaking up amp sound, it might just make it worthy of being considered king of the drive boxes.

.011, I traded an '88 Rat for one of your 72°. I am quite happy with my deal. I guess the Rat was more versatile, but the lack of an LED made it a little hard to use for me.

[Radspin]

For what it's worth, I bought a RAT about five years ago on impulse and I don't know if it had a different chip than the LM308, but it sounded terrible. Used it on one gig for a couple of songs and was thankful I had brought another overdrive with me. It wasn't the one that looks like the pictures above--it was the smaller box with "RAT" in big block letters.

[schenkadere]

Originally Posted by Radspin

For what it's worth, I bought a RAT about five years ago on impulse and I don't know if it had a different chip than the LM308, but it sounded terrible. Used it on one gig for a couple of songs and was thankful I had brought another overdrive with me. It wasn't the one that looks like the pictures above--it was the smaller box with "RAT" in big block letters.

I've tried them over the years...it's not for everyone...don't feel like you're missing something if you don't dig it...might not be for you. There are a lot of things folks love that I don't...Fender amps for one...Rat for another...just not for me. Whatever works for you.

Maybe I just haven't found the right Rat...idk.

Back in my early playing years there was the Rat, MXR dist +, DOD 250, Tube Screamer and Big Muff. I went with the Muff...it simply had that wall of warm, smooth dirt and sustain that helped me get where I wanted to be with my limited amp budget...circa 1980-84...even then the Rat didn't do it for me.

[wrathfuldeity]

recently got a rat2 off cl for way cheap, got a 308 chip and did the ruetz switch mod...very cheap and easy diy. anyway I like it better than the few other dist pedals....really quite a range from od to dist to fuzz

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by schenkadere

Maybe I just haven't found the right Rat...idk.

A Rat has a very strong voicing. It has a pair of filters (not to be confused with THE filter control), that cuts bass at around 60Hz and 1.5KHz, with the latter being a lot stronger.

...If you think about the midrange emphasis of a TS, and know that it cuts bass at ~720Hz, you can realize that the Rat is going to be much more pronounced at double that frequency, which puts you into the upper mids, an entire octave up.

And - this "EQ character" is not at all linear. If you set the amount of drive or distortion low, the bass barely gets emphasized. This is why it makes for a great OD or barely breaking up sound. But since most folks think the Rat is just a hard core distortion pedal, many will never try it this way.

...As you turn up the gain/distortion, the lower 60Hz bass filter gets emphasized more, but because of the non-linear relationship between it and the 1.5KHz filter, you can "miss the sweet spot" where the distortion is fairly tight and defined, has enough girth, but is also "loose enough" to not sound like the typical distortion pedal. Once you pass the sweet spot, the Rat is very bombastic sounding, and much more like a fuzz.

All 3 controls are also very interactive. It takes awhile tweaking the three for taste, and if/when you switch guitars, you usually have to alter the settings a bit.

While a Rat can work okay at low volumes supplying 100% of the distortion, IMO it sounds really good at higher volumes and the distortion backed off a bit. This is how guys like Jeff Beck got such a killer sound out of one.

So for a lot of users, the Rat is not an "automatic pedal." That's a shame, because many of the ones that are (really tight, oodles of sustain and saturation for days, etc.) don't have as "3-D" or "organic" of a sound.

It also should be noted that part of the piercing quality of many Rats in a home setting becomes really usable and GREAT sounding on stage - it is only in isolation that they tend to sound harsh. And the pedal that sounded great at home will usually cause your guitar sound to disappear on stage!

IMO, you can't approach the Rat like most other drive boxes - the controls interact too much, and the characteristics of the pedal changes radically as you up the distortion control. If you go into it think it was just made for extreme distortion and set that control either high or to max, you will probably end up passing on a Rat every time and favoring other pedals.

[mal paso]

Perfect for mild OD, IMO, never really use the full blown distortion




And +1 for 11Gauge, of course

[Chiogtr4x]

Originally Posted by mal paso

Perfect for mild OD, IMO, never really use the full blown distortion




And +1 for 11Gauge, of course

I'm not using mine (a GFS Rat clone) for 'full-blown' distortion but at about 1/3 Gain setting, it is making my new best friend, a Vox Pathfinder, just "sing" with a smooth OD with great sustain...amazing how good these two sound together.

[JoeNeri]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

It also should be noted that part of the piercing quality of many Rats in a home setting becomes really usable and GREAT sounding on stage - it is only in isolation that they tend to sound harsh. And the pedal that sounded great at home will usually cause your guitar sound to disappear on stage!

Amen, brother!

Best "cut-through" pedal I've ever had, and I can adjust the distortion from overdrive to distortion as needed. Once you discover this aspect of a Rat, you'll toss all of your tubescreamers.

[Chiogtr4x]

Originally Posted by JoeNeri

Amen, brother!

Best "cut-through" pedal I've ever had, and I can adjust the distortion from overdrive to distortion as needed. Once you discover this aspect of a Rat, you'll toss all of your tubescreamers.

^^ This is pretty much exactly what I have done!
- my Blues Driver (at low Gain) gives me a little warm breakup, and the Rat really can do the rest...Just don't need anything else- just play!