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Old May 21st, 2012, 11:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Appetite for Destruction tone in a box

I know this is impossible and a Telecaster forum probably isn't the best place to ask this question. But have any of you ever come anywhere close to the modded Marshall tone that Slash had on AFD? The closest I can get with my own gear is my Classic 30 on the dirty channel with a MXR GT-OD boosting it and adding some color.

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Old May 21st, 2012, 11:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Any Marshall-type pedal - The Guv'nor or Tonebone Hot British - will get you most of the way there. But a Les Paul-type guitar with PAF-style pickups into a Marshall amp is your essential tone recipe.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:12 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I'd actually go for a Marshall V1 Shredmaster to get those Slash tones. With the contour control, you can really hit the midrange sweet spot. And with the same contour control, you can knock the mids down for other types of tones or music (you can even scoop them!).

And despite the name, the SM doesn't excel at "metal tones," IMO. Turn the gain down and you get all that cool classic rock/GNR/STP/etc./etc...

...Okay - maybe some old Maiden/Priest/Scorpions/"old school metal," but that's about as far as it goes IMO. The SM is much better with the gain cranked back for crunchy midrange-laden stuff. And it was made by the same company who makes the amps that folks want the essence of.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Wampler!

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Old May 22nd, 2012, 07:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 09:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have been using my Wampler Pinnacle for this very purpose. I use my neck pickup (on my LP) with the tone rolled down and have the gain on the pedal set at about 50%. If you are using a Tele, you may have a difficult time getting this tone.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 09:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 09:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11 Gauge View Post
I'd actually go for a Marshall V1 Shredmaster to get those Slash tones. With the contour control, you can really hit the midrange sweet spot. And with the same contour control, you can knock the mids down for other types of tones or music (you can even scoop them!).

And despite the name, the SM doesn't excel at "metal tones," IMO. Turn the gain down and you get all that cool classic rock/GNR/STP/etc./etc...

...Okay - maybe some old Maiden/Priest/Scorpions/"old school metal," but that's about as far as it goes IMO. The SM is much better with the gain cranked back for crunchy midrange-laden stuff. And it was made by the same company who makes the amps that folks want the essence of.
That's a good one too! Not sure what the originals are going for, but Outlaw Supply has this one:

http://www.pureanalogeffects.com/hellrazor.aspx
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hey thanks for all the replies. I forgot to mention I use my Gibson "The Paul II" when trying to get that tone. But I like to use my Tele with it too because it still sounds cool. Just not as high gain. I agree a Marshall amp would be a good place to start but I don't want a half stack. I like combo amps.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Not sure what the originals are going for...
I got a Joyo High Gain Distortion for ~$40. It is a clone of the Hyde side of the Visual Sound Jekyll & Hyde set to "sharp." The Hyde side of the J&H is basically a Shredmaster with the bass control hardwired at a certain point.

But it is the friggin' countour control on that pedal that just lets you jump all over those Slash/classic rock tones, and absolutely pinpoint it, IMO. I'm not usually a big fan of "extra controls," but this is an exception.

I was going to scratchbuild a Shredmaster, but the Joyo was so cheap that it was impossible to not at least try. IDK what kind of longevity it will have (especially the input and output jacks), so that may make the Son of Hyde a better choice. But you could get two of the Joyo HGD's and still have a ten spot left over for some strings or something. Unbelievable...
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 02:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11 Gauge View Post
I got a Joyo High Gain Distortion for ~$40. It is a clone of the Hyde side of the Visual Sound Jekyll & Hyde set to "sharp." The Hyde side of the J&H is basically a Shredmaster with the bass control hardwired at a certain point.

But it is the friggin' countour control on that pedal that just lets you jump all over those Slash/classic rock tones, and absolutely pinpoint it, IMO. I'm not usually a big fan of "extra controls," but this is an exception.

I was going to scratchbuild a Shredmaster, but the Joyo was so cheap that it was impossible to not at least try. IDK what kind of longevity it will have (especially the input and output jacks), so that may make the Son of Hyde a better choice. But you could get two of the Joyo HGD's and still have a ten spot left over for some strings or something. Unbelievable...
.011 ,How close,from a circuit standpoint is the Joyo to the Shredmaster?Any 'wrong' component values?
I'd like to know cause I'm currently selling this on ebay UK [worldwide shipping ]and I'm pretty certain I'll be missing it!
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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.011 ,How close,from a circuit standpoint is the Joyo to the Shredmaster?Any 'wrong' component values?
I'd like to know cause I'm currently selling this on ebay UK [worldwide shipping ]and I'm pretty certain I'll be missing it!
Sweeeeet!

I want to collect all the V1's even though I prefer more compact pedals.

I still LOVE whenever I see a pic of one!

Anyway, the differences are as follows:

- no bass control (hardwired to about maybe 2:00??? guessing...)

- treble "smoothing cap" at final op amp stage is 220pF (is .001uF in the SM and this is the "blunt" setting of the Hyde side of the J&H)

- the output cap is 10uF vs. .22uF in the SM, but the Joyo uses buffered bypass, and IMO it isn't a huge difference

The above 3 are the only things I can really recall, with only two of them making much of a difference. Neither affects the contour control or the overall nature of the pedal. I personally prefer the stock SM "blunt" setting, but "sharp" does clean up much better, and is therefore a very popular DIY tweak to the SM. And it is stock with the HGD.

Besides, with the Joyo, there is no reason to hold back and keep it stock - you can start throwing all the DIY tweaks you want. I started tweaking mine immediately. I smoothed out the treble at another op amp stage, replaced the clipping diodes with something else, hardwired for less bass (only 1 resistor has to be changed), and slightly tweaked the contour control (just called mid on the Joyo) so that it couldn't scoop as much, with the mids coming in sooner.

I also rewired mine for true bypass, and destroyed the stock footswitch in the process . Small price to pay, IMO. Mine's going on my pedalboard as soon as the switch gets here, and it's replacing a super highly tweaked scratchbuilt Big Muff. While the Muff is cool, the mid emphasis is obviously fixed (I reworked it to be a distortion and not a fuzz), and the noise floor of the SM/HGD is super low in comparison.

I have a "need" for something like this pedal about 5% of the time, and IMO it has a proven track record for what it does.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 10:24 AM   #13 (permalink)
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+1 on Wampler. Go to site. The plexistortion says for that 80's era GnR tone. Only heard em on YouTube though but sounds really great, even for a pedal. Wampler is just a great, great product!

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Old May 24th, 2012, 07:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Try the Catalinbread RAH. Some great Marshall sounds in that pedal.

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Old May 24th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Try the Catalinbread RAH.
It's amazing how some alterations to the WIIO allowed for a pedal that sounds like that!
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Old May 25th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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It's amazing how some alterations to the WIIO allowed for a pedal that sounds like that!

Right on! Any ideas as to what they did?
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Old May 25th, 2012, 07:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Right on! Any ideas as to what they did?
I'll have to check in with my "owns all things C'bread" guy. To be honest, I've been so busy that all I recalled was him telling me that it was indeed that (tweaked WIIO).

I guess the "more important technical aspect" (to me) is that the WIIO/RAH both use mosFET's instead of jFET's, which are what you will typically find in the vast majority of C'bread amp'ish boxes.

My C'bread-owning friend knows that I really like messing with mosFET's, so he figured I'd be interested. I'll have to get back to him and ask for more details.

I think he said that it basically has the "Jimmy Page HiWatt" tone circuit, part-for-part. But I'm just guessing to remember what he said.

IMO, mosFET's are a little harder to master getting a good circuit for, but kudos to Nic for doing it!
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Old May 26th, 2012, 04:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
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On a side note, Howard Gee is using Rev. Willy's Mexican Lottery brand strings in .08 gauge for that Catalinbread clip. I use the same strings and they sound really good, stay in tune, and you can play for much longer with much less fatigue.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
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calling Keith....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11 Gauge View Post
Sweeeeet!

I want to collect all the V1's even though I prefer more compact pedals.

I still LOVE whenever I see a pic of one!

Anyway, the differences are as follows:

- no bass control (hardwired to about maybe 2:00??? guessing...)

- treble "smoothing cap" at final op amp stage is 220pF (is .001uF in the SM and this is the "blunt" setting of the Hyde side of the J&H)

- the output cap is 10uF vs. .22uF in the SM, but the Joyo uses buffered bypass, and IMO it isn't a huge difference

The above 3 are the only things I can really recall, with only two of them making much of a difference. Neither affects the contour control or the overall nature of the pedal. I personally prefer the stock SM "blunt" setting, but "sharp" does clean up much better, and is therefore a very popular DIY tweak to the SM. And it is stock with the HGD.

Besides, with the Joyo, there is no reason to hold back and keep it stock - you can start throwing all the DIY tweaks you want. I started tweaking mine immediately. I smoothed out the treble at another op amp stage, replaced the clipping diodes with something else, hardwired for less bass (only 1 resistor has to be changed), and slightly tweaked the contour control (just called mid on the Joyo) so that it couldn't scoop as much, with the mids coming in sooner.

I also rewired mine for true bypass, and destroyed the stock footswitch in the process . Small price to pay, IMO. Mine's going on my pedalboard as soon as the switch gets here, and it's replacing a super highly tweaked scratchbuilt Big Muff. While the Muff is cool, the mid emphasis is obviously fixed (I reworked it to be a distortion and not a fuzz), and the noise floor of the SM/HGD is super low in comparison.

I have a "need" for something like this pedal about 5% of the time, and IMO it has a proven track record for what it does.
Keith I just got my Joyo HGD and I think it sounds really close to my old shredmaster! I'd like to change that trebel smoothing cap to .001 though cause I've got the trebel rolled all the way off and its still a bit bright,but not harsh at all. However I dont see any 220pf caps in this thing.Theres only two small yellow caps,one marked 510 and one marked 101.So could you guide me to the trebel smoothing cap?
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Old November 20th, 2012, 04:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You would have to consider a DLS, no?...



Maybe my next NPD
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