Tweed Sounding Pedal?

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Axis29

It was actually the F5 that did it. I had done the YouTube things and thought I HAD to have that tone. Got it and was in love with it, verry happy. Lance came over and he says, "hmmm it sounds a lot like your Distortron". He starts messing with settings while I played and BAM. He's got them so I can't tell which pedal is on... The gain ranges were the same, the tone range was the same, etc.

Well, that is the thing with some of these amp sim pedals, because they are almost always built around either jFET or mosFET gain stages, which are supposed to have the most "tube like response." Then it's just a matter of shaping the gain and EQ at each stage. Lots of times, the circuit design mimics the actual amp's preamp, and the jFET/mosFET transistors are substituted in place of 12AX7 stages.

The "limitation of design" issue that comes into play is that for mass production purposes, there has to be a way to do it that doesn't require individual biasing of the transistors - that would be too labor intensive. Runoffgroove.com has amp sim designs where each gain stage requires individual transistor biasing. Lots of people seem to really like the Professor Tweed, and I've heard more than a few folks say that the Umble is one of the best of the best "amp sim" pedals they've ever experienced, ever (and not necessarily because it sounds like a Dumble).

Actually, I think Vex wins the prize, here. What many other guys are doing with jFET's (which tends to require more transistors in the circuit, and a lot of sorting for gain/transconductance/etc.), he does with mosFET's. It requires a lot less circuit complexity, and the "autobiasing nature" of mosFET's is vastly less of a mass production headache. So I can see why you stuck with the Distortron - it makes a lot of sense from a circuit design standpoint.

[JesterR]

Originally Posted by mal paso

Just curious as to your thoughts, was thinking about picking one up. I dig Way Huge, and they are about $30-40 cheaper than the Catalinbread

They sounds really different. RL is more neutral sounding, more like fuzz face, Flat frequency response and dependent on you amp response. Fn5 have some mid boost (not a TS-style at all), which gives it more "character" and more focused sound. and I tell it in a good way, because it still has that "sag", but better for Black Crowes-style rhythm parts IMHO.

[JesterR]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

Well, that is the thing with some of these amp sim pedals, because they are almost always built around either jFET or mosFET gain stages, which are supposed to have the most "tube like response." Then it's just a matter of shaping the gain and EQ at each stage. Lots of times, the circuit design mimics the actual amp's preamp, and the jFET/mosFET transistors are substituted in place of 12AX7 stages.

But these differences really make sense. I was A big fan of FET overdrives, as you know, had many catalinbreads and I have Menatone WMB, which is really mind-blowing pedal. And all of them sounds really different. So, I think, that seems like other parts, like tonestack are pretty similar voiced on distortron and Fn5, if they have so similar tone.

[Wampler Pedals]

Respectfully, and I definitely don't mean that my way is the only way or anything like that... I like to use JFETs for certain applications because the particular JFET I'm using has a characteristic or response that I really like. I don't personally feel that MOSFETs and JFETs and, while we're at it, op-amps, or just regular transistors, or diodes of different kinds will fill the need for every circuit.

You take something like ZVex's SHO and it's a very slick design, you can see why he used a MOSFET there and it does sound good and work great in that circuit. But there are a lot of other possibilities for making a boost or drive where JFETs are a great choice, or I'd want to use a specific op-amp. And speaking as a builder who has been really fortunate and blessed to experience growth to a scale where selection does start to matter, honestly we haven't had any trouble as far as making sure we're using parts that are within tolerance, even though we have tight tolerances for our pedals since they have to be the same pedal to pedal for pros who don't leave home without a backup or two. (For example, you never know what's going to happen on the road... Beer can ruin a pedal's day pretty quick, and if it's part of your sound, you have to put another one where it was for the gig tomorrow, and it can't sound different).

It's just a matter of picking the right part for the job, first and foremost. An "ears" thing as much as having electrical knowledge, sometimes you take an engineer-like approach and sometimes you can just tell that "for this pedal, this part is necessary to get it to sound right."

[bobk]

The wampler tweed 57 dead nails it......just got it in the mail today....quick turn around.....in a bout fifteen minutes I found a bunch of useable tones...it stacks well with other stuff,and I know one of the "holy grail tones"on here,much debated..is bruces "prove it all night tone"..its IN THERE....and more.....still playin with it,more to find but its got the screamin bassman sound down...nice job Brian......

[Tech21NYC]

Originally Posted by Whoa Tele

Thanks for all the responses. The Tech 21 Blonde is a great pedal but to my ears sounds better direct to PA. I'm looking for something to cop the clean/edge of breakup rockabilly tones. I also dig some of the early Billy Gibbons tweed tones.

How do you have the tone controls set on your amp? Which channel of the amp? No matter what pedal you choose it helps to be aware that the Blackface Fenders have a pronounced midrange scoop. This is why you had better results with the pedal through the PA which is flat response. The Tweed amps had a much more pronounced midrange. It's often hard to make a sound happen with a pedal when the amp you are playing through has exactly the opposite tonal curve that you ultimately want. Do you have the Blonde with the speaker sim defeat switch?

With my Blackface Deluxe I usually have the best results with setting the treble at about 4 and bass at about 3 or a little under as this fattens the tone. That's for any pedal not just ours. I also have the bright cap removed on the reverb channel. Of course this may not be your favorite clean setting. One trick with those 2 channel BF amps is to use an A/B setup and run your clean sound into the reverb channel and send your overdrive to the normal channel whcih can be better optimized for distortion pedals.

[Dr. Pants]

The pedal makers come out to shore themselves up.

Geez, guys, relax. Those who will buy you pedals, will
buy your pedals. Those who won't, won't.

I recently bought a Tech21 pedal, and not because of
their presence here (it actually put me off, and I almost
bought a competitors pedal) but because of the great reviews
I read *elsewhere* on line.

To me it makes you people look silly and desperate.

[bigbandtele]

Originally Posted by Dr. Pants

To me it makes you people look silly and desperate.

You really think that helping users with their product makes them look silly?

I appreciate Tech21 taking the time, and I also think they're smart to pay attention to forums like this.

[Chiogtr4x]

^^ Also, what is recommended by Tech 21 here, is often advice given by many, with respect to Deluxe Reverbs getting along with OD's (I did the Bright cap clip to mine years ago( advice given me in-person by Dave Barber-sorry to 'name drop' here, but he fixed my DR...), which improved things, but there are a few OD's I own that don't like this amp). Just seemed like general, "for the greater good advice" to me

[mal paso]

Companies that care about their product and seek to engage customers online to provide good service hardly seems silly or desperate to me.





In fact, it seems kinda awesome

[Tech21NYC]

Originally Posted by Dr. Pants

The pedal makers come out to shore themselves up.

Geez, guys, relax. Those who will buy you pedals, will
buy your pedals. Those who won't, won't.

I recently bought a Tech21 pedal, and not because of
their presence here (it actually put me off, and I almost
bought a competitors pedal) but because of the great reviews
I read *elsewhere* on line.

To me it makes you people look silly and desperate.

I'm a little confused by your response. I actually post here very little. If it looked like I was trying to sell our product that was not my intention. What I posted had to do more with why players often keep buying a pedal that does the same thing over and over. The information I provided is pretty common knowledge about amplifier topology to those of us that work in this field. It is not always common knowledge to everyone on the forums.

Did this seem like a sales pitch?

..No matter what pedal you choose it helps to be aware that the Blackface Fenders have a pronounced midrange scoop...

What part of my explanation did you have a particular problem with? The reason for my presence on this and other forums is to educate people about our products and to address misinformation as well as providing technical support. We actually get thanked by some for our participation.

[schenkadere]

@Tech21NYC

For what it's worth...I think you were providing good information and helping the guy out.

[WireLine]

There's an old saying in the studio world: you want something that sounds like a U47? Then get a U47.

You want a tweed amp sound, then get a tweed amp - everything else only gets close...some very close, but none exactly there.

That said, the Tech21 guys are appreciated by this poster. I've put them into a very short list of manufacturers that I actually respect, simply because they interact with users (both the valid and the sharpshooters trying to make a name for themselves.)

I wish more manufacturers would make an attempt to actually interact with the people they are selling to, but after a couple of the comments here, I see why they don't.

Tech21, check your PMs, please.

[stephenyi]

I will also suggest the Clark Gainster for gritty, tweed tones. I have the now discontinued (and cheaper) Barber version.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by WireLine

I wish more manufacturers would make an attempt to actually interact with the people they are selling to...

Should almost be par for the course, if time and/or other obligations permit. If it's gear that has a bit of a learning curve for best results, it becomes increasingly more important.

IMO.

[mindlobster]

I have the original Tech21 Blonde, and it's a permanent part of my sound. I was also wondering if you'd had the one with the speaker sim switch or not. The difference for me I guess is that I'm not worried about how 'authentic' it sounds, as long as it sounds good.

And I also think it's cool if Tech21 post on here. I didn't feel it to be a sales pitch.

[Whoa Tele]

Originally Posted by Tech21NYC

How do you have the tone controls set on your amp? Which channel of the amp? No matter what pedal you choose it helps to be aware that the Blackface Fenders have a pronounced midrange scoop. This is why you had better results with the pedal through the PA which is flat response. The Tweed amps had a much more pronounced midrange. It's often hard to make a sound happen with a pedal when the amp you are playing through has exactly the opposite tonal curve that you ultimately want. Do you have the Blonde with the speaker sim defeat switch?

With my Blackface Deluxe I usually have the best results with setting the treble at about 4 and bass at about 3 or a little under as this fattens the tone. That's for any pedal not just ours. I also have the bright cap removed on the reverb channel. Of course this may not be your favorite clean setting. One trick with those 2 channel BF amps is to use an A/B setup and run your clean sound into the reverb channel and send your overdrive to the normal channel whcih can be better optimized for distortion pedals.

Thanks for taking time to offer this info. I do have the bright mod on my DRRI and also have a Eminence CRex installed. You were dead on when you suggested the issue of tweaking the amp to the pedal and not getting the clean tone I want. I had the Blonde w/o the defeat switch and while I found some very nice rhythm tones, the lead sounds were a bit too bright for me. Moreso with the Liverpool than the blonde. I'm not a huge tweaker to begin with as I prefer to keep it simple (especially live) . IMO Tech 21 makes a great product but you have to invest time finding the sweet spot.

[hybridrocknroll]

My vote is the Wampler Tweed '57. Just got it in the other day and it nails any Bassman tone you can imagine. Made my Dr. Z sound layperson fat and meaty. Absolute top quality pedal.

[gmann]

I have the FN5 and the Les Lius. I find the FN5 to have too much gain for my needs and I'm not really crazy about the way the LL is laid out. I think it's the better sounding pedal tho, at least for me and what I doin'. However, neither is on my board att. What probably will be on my board soon is the Wampler '57. I have the Black '65 and am very impressed with it. I've seen 4 or 5 of the '57 pedal demoes and they were all different which points to the versatility of the pedal. The LL and the FN5 were good at what they did but not all that versatile IMO. Twice I've gone to order it and it's been sold out. Soon tho, I shall have one.

[Tech21NYC]

Originally Posted by Whoa Tele

Thanks for taking time to offer this info. I do have the bright mod on my DRRI and also have a Eminence CRex installed. You were dead on when you suggested the issue of tweaking the amp to the pedal and not getting the clean tone I want. I had the Blonde w/o the defeat switch and while I found some very nice rhythm tones, the lead sounds were a bit too bright for me. Moreso with the Liverpool than the blonde. I'm not a huge tweaker to begin with as I prefer to keep it simple (especially live) . IMO Tech 21 makes a great product but you have to invest time finding the sweet spot.

The speaker sim defeat switch on the V2 models would have made it easier to use the pedal in your situation. It also depends on how your amp is set. How do you have it set and with what guitar? The Character series work best into a very clean platform as they are emulating an amp in its entirety. Preamp, output stage distortion and speaker emulation.

I have an old Silverface Deluxe reverb that was modded to Blackface specs and we put it in a head cab. It's a great amp but it distorts very quickly and is not what I consider the best "clean" pedal platform. Also as I said those amps have a pretty pronounced mid scoop. I run mine at anywhere from 3 to full up and not usually use a pedal in the studio. Of course I either attenuate it or I use a baffle. It's not what I consider a loud amp. I've never really put a reissue through its paces so I can't really comment on how they compare.

There is certainly an abundance of choices. Although it's a bit more work, don't discount the use of using both channels of your amp. It's kind of like a poor mans Eric Johnson/Carl Verheyen rig. You have your real clean channel optimized for that sound and the other channel optimized for distortion.