New Rat Day

[lareplus]

well, i'm going down to Best Buy right away and get one of those new rat clone coffee makers!

[telepath]

Originally Posted by 6ixstring

Love my 1991 rat2. Excuse the messy board. Im trying a few pedals today in different order than my usual. The four od/dist boxes you see pictured, compliment and stack nicely.

Well, that looks familiar - I have a (older red) Butah and a RAT too

.. got everythin' that Uncle John need ;)

DF - Enjoy your new old RAT.

I was late to the RAT party myself - but hugely pleased I got there eventually.

But anyways ... shhh guys.. we could just let everyone think that RAT ownership requires mandatory 24/7 Spandex and lipgloss... we can keep the smoky low gain >>> fuzzy mayhem 'secret' amongst ourselves a while

[6ixstring]

Originally Posted by JoeNeri

Hey 6ixstring, I'll see your 72 and Rat and call ya...

Oh no...you have more pedals...you win!

Seriously, the 72 stacks incredibly well into the Rat.

I must admit, it was you that inspired me to give the 72 a try with the rat. I had the rat for a while before the 72. I was looking for a pedal to kick it a little. I recently picked up the 72 on eBay and am happy with the results.

I might have a few more pedals, but I don't have the "ticking time bomb clock". You need a coiled red and blue wire attached to it...lol.

[JoeNeri]

Originally Posted by 6ixstring

... but I don't have the "ticking time bomb clock". You need a coiled red and blue wire attached to it...lol.

Now that's a DIY project that I can handle!

[JoeNeri]

Originally Posted by telepath

But anyways ... shhh guys.. we could just let everyone think that RAT ownership requires mandatory 24/7 Spandex and lipgloss... we can keep the smoky low gain >>> fuzzy mayhem 'secret' amongst ourselves a while

Just don't tell the folks over at TGP - they'll drive the price up to that of a Klon.

[bradpdx]

Still using the RAT I bought new in 1983. I only use it for "over the top" distortion (Distortion control at 1 o'clock), and employ Boss Turbo Overdrive for lighter levels of crunch.

The RAT is great for the one thing it does.

[artdecade]

Originally Posted by bradpdx

The RAT is great for the one thing it does.

The Rat is great at many, many things. The entire range of gain is totally usable. The filter is perfect. You can go from light dirt to full on fuzz.

[cellrebral]

The Rat doesn't do just one thing. You need to experiment with it a little more. It is not just a high gain pedal.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by artdecade

The entire range of gain is totally usable.

It is amazing how different the characteristics are just from 10:00 to about 12:30!

And I can't decide where I like it best...

I think I could have about four Rats on one pedalboard with the Dist (and then obviously Filter) all set at different points.

Maybe I need to scratchbuild something called the Rat's Nest that has like FOUR Rats in one box.

As cool as the Rat is for that spandex rock thing, it just kills for all the shades of grind below it, too.

And I know that Joe mentioned cranking it up for slide - I was listening to a cut off Tom Waits' Orphans, and there was a song with some slide riffs in it, and that was exactly what came to mind.

[majorbugout]

I tried a zillion times and can't get the photos to post...errrrr. so I did links and it worked. So anyway for those that were interested here are Thurston's pedals with the Rat next to the beat to hell Green Muff. I guess it makes sense that he would not use it with Sonic Youth because at small solo gigs he is only using a Peavey 64 and the Rat will make up for not having the stack he uses with Sonic Youth.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79180483@N03/6942697624/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79180483@N03/6942640112/

[dog fart]

Originally Posted by telepath

But anyways ... shhh guys.. we could just let everyone think that RAT ownership requires mandatory 24/7 Spandex and lipgloss... we can keep the smoky low gain >>> fuzzy mayhem 'secret' amongst ourselves a while

Funny thing, it turns out I wasn't using a Rat afterall. I was plugged into one of Billy G's old Rockman(s) Our secret is safe with me

[artdecade]

Originally Posted by majorbugout

I tried a zillion times and can't get the photos to post...errrrr. so I did links and it worked. So anyway for those that were interested here are Thurston's pedals with the Rat next to the beat to hell Green Muff. I guess it makes sense that he would not use it with Sonic Youth because at small solo gigs he is only using a Peavey 64 and the Rat will make up for not having the stack he uses with Sonic Youth.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79180483@N03/6942697624/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79180483@N03/6942640112/

Wow. Awesome. Thanks a million. He must be using it on the live shows that he is doing now.

[mal paso]

DF,

Congrats on the Rat!

Majorbug,

Thanks for the cool pics!

While I'm here, anybody here ever stack Rats? Currently using it for low gain OD, but was thinking about getting another for higher distortion/fuzz. Is that crazy?

11 Gauge- The Rat's nest sounds awesome

[Chiogtr4x]

Originally Posted by mal paso

DF,

Congrats on the Rat!

Majorbug,

Thanks for the cool pics!

While I'm here, anybody here ever stack Rats? Currently using it for low gain OD, but was thinking about getting another for higher distortion/fuzz. Is that crazy?

11 Gauge- The Rat's nest sounds awesome

Don't know if it's still in production (remember this in an old GP mag ad) but ProCo made a multiple Rat "DeuceTone" (?) that was two stackable Rats that could be configured Stock, Turbo, Clean, and Dirty-sounds like a pretty good idea!

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Chiogtr4x

Don't know if it's still in production (remember this in an old GP mag ad) but ProCo made a multiple Rat "DeuceTone" (?) that was two stackable Rats that could be configured Stock, Turbo, Clean, and Dirty-sounds like a pretty good idea!

Yeah IDK what all they are making these days.

I remember the rackmount pair of Rats too - the R2DU.

Here's a modded one (looks like the stuff that Beavis Audio Research does to his Rat stuff):

[Magnawolf]

That **** cra-

[JoeNeri]

Originally Posted by Chiogtr4x

Don't know if it's still in production (remember this in an old GP mag ad) but ProCo made a multiple Rat "DeuceTone" (?) that was two stackable Rats that could be configured Stock, Turbo, Clean, and Dirty-sounds like a pretty good idea!

Here ya go:

http://www.procosound.com/effects-devices/deucetone-rat

Still in production - new retail at about $180.

Reputed to be somewhat noisy, with both drives engaged and with single coils.

[11 Gauge]

I did some experimentation today with a pair of identical Rats (both are Biyang "Mice") with LM308N chips.

First, I confirmed that I had them set to get an identical sound.

After that, I subbed a OP07 into one. Despite my observations from the past, I was hoping not to observe a difference in characteristics. But lo and behold, the OP07 is a little brighter and more brash, and I had to back off the gain just a touch.

...After looking at the data sheets for both chips, all "standard measure" (i.e things that don't really matter much to pedals) specs were similar.

The one glaring difference is the LM308N has a large signal voltage gain of 300, the OP07 has a large signal voltage gain of 400.

...So there is about as close to the "smoking gun" as you are going to get, as to why the chips definitely behave/sound differently.

But I couldn't stop there...

I subbed in a LM301N, and tested again. Lo and behold, I could imagine many applications where someone may prefer this chip! It has MUCH better note detail, but the blur/growl of the LM308N is GREATLY diminished.

So looking at the data sheets again, I discovered the following differences:

LM301:

input resistance - 500K to 2Meg

large signal voltage gain - 160

slew rate - 10V/uSec

LM308N:

input resistance - 10Meg to 40Meg

large signal voltage gain - 300

slew rate - .15V/uSec

The much higher slew rate of the LM301N gives it much better performance for fast picking and dynamic chord playing - lots more note detail. The 308 will be "blurry and tube-y" in comparison.

At half the large signal voltage gain, the 301 is going to be more like a 12AY7 to the 308 being a 12AX7. So it will never be as aggressive.

The much lower input resistance of the 301 (by many factors) will give it a softer response. But since the slew rate is about 100X improved vs. the 308, it will give a nice balance of "definition versus softness."

The other good news? The LM301 is about 70 cents versus the OP07's starting price of around 80 cents (both chips are expensive compared to something like a 4558).

In a lot of ways, the LM301 is a GREAT choice for folks who will use a Rat for lower gain chores - I could see it being very popular for playing blues and such where the 308 (or OP07) are just too growly and gain-y in comparison.

...So there are the results of my semi- to non-scientific experiments. All 3 of these chips DO sound different, and there are factual reasons as to why that is the case.

[telepath]

.011 Gauge - Interesting stuff, as so very often - many thanks for taking the time and posting the results.

Sounds like you may have uncovered the Rats Nest - i.e. maybe a potential prototype right among those findings?!
Soft Rodent, Classic Rodent , Bright Rodent - all in the one box?? ;)

Ahhh, I just have to go rawk the RAT now.

[JoeNeri]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

In a lot of ways, the LM301 is a GREAT choice for folks who will use a Rat for lower gain chores - I could see it being very popular for playing blues and such where the 308 (or OP07) are just too growly and gain-y in comparison.

Thanks, Keith. Good stuff.

But I'm still a bit confused - if the 308 and OP07 are similar, and I believe the latter is in the newer Rats, what's the advantage the 308 has over the OP07?