A thread to sum up Joyo pedals pros/cons

[czech-one-2]

Originally Posted by Teleglide

I'm wondering how close the Ultimate Drive is to an OCD. Anybody A/B them?

Theres only a couple slight component values changed,its almost a 1-1 clone. But the changes did add more gain, so its a bit hotter.Just sold mine in favor of The US Dream.

[schenkadere]

Originally Posted by czech-one-2

Theres only a couple slight component values changed,its almost a 1-1 clone. But the changes did add more gain, so its a bit hotter.Just sold mine in favor of The US Dream.

Is the US Dream a Suhr Riot clone? Where can I find a demo of that pedal?

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Thighbanez

With SMT becoming the new wave...it sounds like pedal manufacturers should be combining two pedals into one enclosure perhaps?

I know that "This1sMYNE" does it all the time for regular pedals but maybe the industry should follow his lead...?

Some who use SMT seem to harness it for similar advantages, like adding extra controls and such. It's just so easy for all of that. One of the most impressive combos of traditional and SMT construction is the Diamond compressor. It is wall-to-wall components of one type or the other.

The Suhr Riot is SMT. All the Cusack pedals are SMT. All the Lovepedal pedals that Cusack made for LP (like the Les Lius) are SMT. All the Red Witch stuff TTBOMK has gone SMT.

The Tech 21 pedals were always SMT. Did you ever notice how they have what looks like a true bypass switch, but it activates just like an old Boss or Ibanez pedal? Yep. buffered bypass. At least the old ones were. IDK why they would change tact just for the new character series, Boost DLA, etc. anyway.

I remember seeing this SMT build of a Big Muff that this guy did, and he was putting it into a candy bar sized box like the Xotic EP Booster uses. He could have actually put two or three in there!

It is also kind of silly, because right now the majority of boutique-ish crowd that has circuitboards manufactured for them are using double sided boards. There's really little advantage to that with such a low parts count. But I guess if they are paying someone to lay out their boards and manufacture them for them, might as well make things look slick, with components all in nice neat rows, like a well tended garden...

...But you are right - two, three, even more actual ANALOG circuits could be put in one small box, especially if put on a dual sided board. If you go to the relay (or other logic type) switching, it's a no brainer. You have your bypass/active switch, and then you have one for cycling through the different effects. That just seems to have so much more potential to it, IF a "builder" is getting their pcbs built for them, IMO.

If you haven't cracked open a EHX Nano LPB-1, check it out. A little one transistor boost that is SMT - it's like a wide open plain in there.

I honestly don't think that Vex could have crammed the Box of Metal circuit in that little box if it weren't for SMT.

What is kind of amazing is some of the Boss pedals. They have thru-hole components on a single sided board. And most of those suckers have no vacancies in there, at all...

[TNO]

Is there much difference in sound quality with SMT components vs the better film caps, etc?

[BelairPlayer]

Originally Posted by TNO

Is there much difference in sound quality with SMT components vs the better film caps, etc?

Nope...the electrons don't know that they aren't whizzing through-hole anymore (shhh don't tell 'em).

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by willexi

Nope...the electrons don't know that they aren't whizzing through-hole anymore (shhh don't tell 'em).

That is what is so interesting - if someone wants proof that (at least in the context of stomp boxes) "premium components" is a red herring, the fact that there are some great sounding SMT pedals is it (proof positive).

SMT capacitors are ceramic, and in the context of things like amplifiers, that is a "forbidden dielectric." But if you look at some of the most highly regarded pedals ever made, many have "inferior grade" components.

It is kind of funny that the real OCD uses "cheap Xicon greenies," but the Joyo knockoff actually uses what look like the metalized film Panasonic "premium" caps.

There is also plenty of high end audio equipment that is SMT, and there just wouldn't be room for thru-hole caps of any type in lots of those devices. I have a Lexicon reverb rack unit, and since it was designed primarily for the recording studio or live sound reinforcement, it can't have just average sound quality. While I haven't taken it apart, I would be stupefied if it was anything other than SMT. Since the processor part obviously is, there is no sense in making the construction a hybrid type.

[Beazs]

Yeah but I rekon if I keep an original Finland made bjfe design pedal (in its box mind you) then in 20 years I can sell it off and retire ! It will be a novelty...

Superb though and Mad Professor type kit I think is either love or hate it etc. (I find you can get a number of useable tones out of each one making it like having a bunch 'other' pedals at the same time. Long term cost effective? not sure, but I only have 3 anyways) I'm happy.

[czech-one-2]

Originally Posted by schenkadere

Is the US Dream a Suhr Riot clone? Where can I find a demo of that pedal?

Havnt seen any yet, but if you check the Riot clips on youtube I'd have to say its definately in the ballpark.

[guit30]

Excuse me for being stupid, but, What is SMT?
JIm

[czech-one-2]

Originally Posted by guit30

Excuse me for being stupid, but, What is SMT?
JIm

Not stupid Jim. Surface Mount components......maybe the 'T' is technology?Anyway, they are minuscule little caps/resistors and diodes that sit on the suface of the circuit board.Impossible for most people to mod,but it can be done if you have owl-eyes and a needle tip soldering iron.The Bad Monkey is an early SMT pedal that mixes in a few full sized capacitors.Pretty sure it makes no difference to an electron though,its still like a drop of water through a fire-hose!

[Albionic]

the only thing i will say about surface mount is a soldering fault, dry joint etc., is much more likely to slip through the net. cant see why the components wouldn't be as good though.

[guit30]

Sort of like the mini components in Behringer pedals?

[tark]

A word of warning about JOYO pedals -

They are very cheap and they look OK on the outside BUT the final hand assembly, testing and quality control sucks.

This is typical of low cost Chinese goods - any corners cut will be on the inside where you cannot see them.

The pedals use good quality components and the metalwork is very good (again typical of Chinese parts where production can be automated). The pedals all seem to be clones of tried and true designs, some slightly modified to use a mechanical bypass switch.
I have a Classic Flanger (based on the Ibanez FL9) and a Voodoo Octave (based on the Fulltone Ultimate Octave / fOXX Tone Machine).
The Flanger did not work when I got it - opened it up and the BBD chip was floating in space with half its pins disconnected. I soldered that back in and the pedal worked.
The Voodoo Octave had half of the electrolytic capacitors inserted the wrong way round, two tone caps in the wrong place and one resistor the wrong value (compared to the Fulltone circuit). Electrolytics the wrong way round sound terrible and will eventually fail altogether.
On both pedals the foot switch was wired using a very flimsy bit of ribbon cable that was just surface tacked with solder onto the PCB.
These pedals can work well and sound great since they do use good quality parts and are clones of well known designs. But if you are not prepared to do some investigation and re-work the insides yourself you don't really know if the pedal you buy is going to work (if you order off the internet of course) and if it does you don't know if it works as it was designed to or if it may fail at some point due to manufacturing mistakes.

[czech-one-2]

Originally Posted by tark

A word of warning about JOYO pedals -

They are very cheap and they look OK on the outside BUT the final hand assembly, testing and quality control sucks.

This is typical of low cost Chinese goods - any corners cut will be on the inside where you cannot see them.

The pedals use good quality components and the metalwork is very good (again typical of Chinese parts where production can be automated). The pedals all seem to be clones of tried and true designs, some slightly modified to use a mechanical bypass switch.
I have a Classic Flanger (based on the Ibanez FL9) and a Voodoo Octave (based on the Fulltone Ultimate Octave / fOXX Tone Machine).
The Flanger did not work when I got it - opened it up and the BBD chip was floating in space with half its pins disconnected. I soldered that back in and the pedal worked.
The Voodoo Octave had half of the electrolytic capacitors inserted the wrong way round, two tone caps in the wrong place and one resistor the wrong value (compared to the Fulltone circuit). Electrolytics the wrong way round sound terrible and will eventually fail altogether.
On both pedals the foot switch was wired using a very flimsy bit of ribbon cable that was just surface tacked with solder onto the PCB.
These pedals can work well and sound great since they do use good quality parts and are clones of well known designs. But if you are not prepared to do some investigation and re-work the insides yourself you don't really know if the pedal you buy is going to work (if you order off the internet of course) and if it does you don't know if it works as it was designed to or if it may fail at some point due to manufacturing mistakes.

^ Not so sure I agree with all that. All my Joyos have metal shaft pots and use the same 3pdt footswitches as the boo-tique builders.[I did re-inforce the ribbon cable connections, but thats just me being overly cautious] Much better quality than,say, the Ibanez 10 series with their plastic pots and flimsy footswitches.Not sure about any 'wrong' component values but I've seen a schematic for the Ultimate drive and its pretty much a spot on OCD with better filtering and a couple small tweeks. Did you say you found electrolytics installed backwards? Maybe you could take a gut shot of that pedal and circle the components that were oriented backwards so other owners could check their pedals out?

[plymman]

I only started reading reviews of these in the last few days, I've ordered the Vintage overdrive and can't wait for it to arrive.

[JG806]

Originally Posted by Teleglide

I'm wondering how close the Ultimate Drive is to an OCD. Anybody A/B them?

I've got both of them on my board. They are kind of similar. The UD is like a meaner bassier cousin of the OCD. Good for higher gain sounds. I use the OCD for med/lower gain. The UD is more scooped for sure & to me looses it's mojo as you turn the gain down. So it doesn't clean up near as well as the OCD. IMO the OCD is clearly the better pedal but the UD is filling a purpose on my board for now.

[Delta63]

Originally Posted by BadgerDBad

powered just with a 9v battery

Maybe your battery is dead or the wire battery snap thing is wired in bad.
With those danelectro fab pedals, they'll make this weird screeching/siren sound
when the battery gets low. I also had a bad battery snap in one, I just soldered it back on.

[markinlondon]

My UD goes from clean to high gain in about 10 degrees of rotation on the gain knob. A bit like an older Fender Hot Rod Deluxe The overall tone is great but I'd like a bit more of a taper there. The tremolo is just fine, no complaints.

[tark]

Originally Posted by czech-one-2

^ Not so sure I agree with all that. All my Joyos have metal shaft pots and use the same 3pdt footswitches as the boo-tique builders.[I did re-inforce the ribbon cable connections, but thats just me being overly cautious] Much better quality than,say, the Ibanez 10 series with their plastic pots and flimsy footswitches.Not sure about any 'wrong' component values but I've seen a schematic for the Ultimate drive and its pretty much a spot on OCD with better filtering and a couple small tweeks. Did you say you found electrolytics installed backwards? Maybe you could take a gut shot of that pedal and circle the components that were oriented backwards so other owners could check their pedals out?

?? Did you read my post ? I said very clearly that the JOYO pedals used good quality parts - it was quality control and final finish of the internals I was concerned about. I am not sure that my posting shots of the pedal with capacitors the wrong way round would help. I only checked mine because of another post that identified two caps in their pedal as reversed. I found four reversed in my pedal so the number of caps and even which caps they are may vary.

My point about the Voodoo Octave being a clone of the Fulltone with wrong values was that in my opinion the values that varied from the Fulltone made the Joyo sound worse.

I can understand there being the odd problem with the occasional pedal from any manufacturer, but for me to buy two pedals and find serious flaws in them both seems to me to be a reason to sound a note of caution to others. Particularly for other customers who unlike me do not have the knowledge and ability to identify and fix any flaws.

I think it is a shame that these problems let the Joyo pedals down because they are clones of tested and sucessful designs - when they are properly put together they sound very good. Seems a bit dumb to me to rip off successful US pedal designs and then mess up on the final bit of hand building and quality control. Still I suppose those are the most expensive steps in building almost anything (apart from the initial R&D which in this case they don't pay for).

[11 Gauge]

I just got a Joyo High Gain Distortion (don't laugh) early last week. I had it apart inside of 10 minutes, because the intention was putting it under the knife almost immediately.

I know it's a Marshall Shredmaster clone, and I've always liked them with the gain dialed in lower. The HGD is actually almost part-for-part with the Visual Sound J&H Hyde side, which takes the Shredmaster bass control and makes it fixed at a certain level.

I just wanted to smooth out the Shredmaster circuit just a bit more, and didn't end up going super nutz with the mods.

Anyway - back to build quality with the Joyos. They are definitely about 2 steps down from the Biyang pedals, IMO. Maybe they are copying some of the hottest new-ish stuff out there, so I guess that is the upshot for many folks.

The circuitboard material is not as good as the Biyang stuff, IMO, and it arrived kind of "funky dirty." Not the end of the world, but you really don't want any kind of film on a pcb - potential trouble down the road.

The two worst parts IMO are the ribbon cable wiring from the footswitch, and the buffered bypass, which is redundant with a true bypass switch, IMO. I don't have anything against buffered bypass per se, but then the mechanical switch isn't really necessary (it just looks "boutique"). Every friggin' wire on the ribbon cables came off at both the footswitch end and the main circuitboard end, because they just tack them down at the factory, and don't feed them thru the holes. The wire is also way too thin, and the strands just snap off.

I also know that Joyo is using the buffered bypass in case they want/need to switch over to a DPDT to save some money - it would mean they won't have to modify the circuitboard.

That said, Biyang uses millenium bypass, which is essentially true bypass with a DPDT, so they are ahead of the curve vs. Joyo with that, as well.

Biyang also uses vertical pins that hold the switch fast, without the wire mess that they Joyos use.

...I was kind of aggravated with squaring away the switch wires, because I do plan on making the pedal true bypass, just so I can stick it in front of my fuzz pedals in a pinch. All the buffered parts are right near the ribbon cable connections, but it will require a little bit of ingenuity jumpering stuff around, cutting a trace from the input jack, etc.

Actually, the jacks just suck, IMO. They aren't great with any setup where they are board mounted, but in the case of my pedal, the output jack warped just enough that the male end of the cord won't "hold fast" in the bore, so I'm going to have to mess with it, probably replace it. Again, the ones by MXR/Biyang/etc. are just a bit better quality (although not much).

And I'm honestly not really big on appearance of anything mass produced, but the flaming skull and crossbones just had to go. Too bad, because I really like the flat black box (I just don't have many pedals in that color). So a little bit of painter's tape and some silver hammertone, and it looks kind of snazzy.

I'm not complaining per se, because I knew that there were going to be some quality issues. To assume otherwise is kind of...well...a poor assumption to make, IMO!

But the upshot is I got my Shredmaster, I didn't have to build it from scratch, I had the mods done quickly, and I had the horrid graphics covered up fast, too. So I'm up and playing the thing, which is where it's at for me, right now.

Oh yeah - I picked this particular pedal also because there are no surface mount parts in it. So it's a tweaker's paradise.

Here's a couple of pics, just for fun.