Danelectro FAB Distortion - uh...

[Ed P]

Originally Posted by R. Stratenstein

I was blown away by the FAB Chorus I bought for under $20 ! Fabulous sound.

I love mine - the best chorus I've ever owned, and just picked up another for super cheap - about the price of my wife and I getting lunch at McDonald's and a whole lot healthier!

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by chamberpop

@11 Gauge,
Wow, an ODR-1, huh? Never had one, but always heard good things. Thanks for the pedal guru insight on this thing.

No problem. I was going to scratchbuild an ODR-1 so that I could have true bypass and generally make it more rugged. Some folks can get the stock ones to work fine for years without issues, but I'd like to make a bulletproof one.

...But the parts count is kind of crazy high for an OD pedal, so I never got back to it. And unless you keep the gain/drive really low, it gets very aggressive, and is much more like a distortion (big surprise). Not how the Nashville crowd uses it, but John Scofield doesn't use a Rat to play stuff like Judas Priest, either.

Originally Posted by chamberpop

@blowtorch,
Please post if you do the A/B with the Nobels! Thanks!

Yes - please do! I'm always on the lookout for simple circuits that just plain sound good, because lots of times it is all I have time to scratchbuild any longer. And I am more interested in the comparison at higher gain amounts, since I have a boatload of fantastic OD pedals already. The distortion pedals that have passed muster with me are much more limited - I am extremely picky about upper order harmonic content that causes that "chewing on tin foil" feeling, as well as many of them simply sounding overly compressed, too much "thud" in the lower registers (I don't want a metal pedal), etc. I also loathe pedals with knobs/knobs/knobs/controls/switches/switches/trimpots/etc. - just a 3 (okay, maybe 4) knob layout, please.

[blowtorch]

Well, I just did an A/B comparison of the Nobels ODR-1 and the FAB Distortion.

Not real sure what to say, as they both sound great, and yet sound different.

Overall the Nobels has more present bottom end, which I guess is what makes it a hit with all these tele players who hate stomping on a TS and hearing their low end disappear.
To me the Nobels did better at the "drive at zero, level cranked" slight bit of grit trick. And the FAB disto did better at rocking out, there's more gas behind it. So in this case I'd say that the Nobels truly is best suited for OD and the Dano FAB Distortion is best suited for , well, thicker distortion, as their respective names to imply.

Not too sure what else to say. The Nobels kicks ass for taut tele twangin'. The Dano FAB dist. does a nice, full, rich, Marshall reminiscent distortion. Both excellent sounds.

[chamberpop]

blowtorch,

Thanks for reporting back on your comparison. I suspected there would certainly be a difference. The FAB sounds good as a lower gain drive, but it's kind of like there's an "on" effect when you go from zero to 1 or 2 on the drive knob. Does yours do that? It's a pretty prominent jump in volume and dirt.

It's only a $14 pedal, so I don't want to make that big a deal out of it. But, I'm wondering if the one I have has a little issue with the pedal (as I mentioned above)? Or do they all do that? If no one else's does, it might be worth sending the thing back for a replacement, because I think I might actually use this thing at live shows if I can get a reliable on/off action on it.

[blowtorch]

"Does yours do that? "
Not that I've noticed, I'll check again when I get a chance.

I used the Dano FAB Dist in band practice last night, and while it sounded real good, it wasn't as rich and full in a band context as I'd found it to be by itself.

Still a hell of a deal though, at less than 20 bucks. And really I didn't fiddle adjusting it much. Those counter-intuitive knobs drive me nuts! I plan on messing with it some more, but I think that for higher gain distortion, my GFS Brownie Classic is probably gonna remain my go-to box.

[adeiderich]

I have the FAB Overdrive - it's ok with some amps, not so good with others (no definition).

The Danelctro 600ms Delay for $24 is a little gem though. I use it on all of my non-reverb amps to add a little depth. I will definitely search out the FAB Distortion and most likely get it under $15. Thanks for the tip!

[Chiogtr4x]

Originally Posted by blowtorch

"Does yours do that? "
Not that I've noticed, I'll check again when I get a chance.

I used the Dano FAB Dist in band practice last night, and while it sounded real good, it wasn't as rich and full in a band context as I'd found it to be by itself.

Still a hell of a deal though, at less than 20 bucks. And really I didn't fiddle adjusting it much. Those counter-intuitive knobs drive me nuts! I plan on messing with it some more, but I think that for higher gain distortion, my GFS Brownie Classic is probably gonna remain my go-to box.

I have a few OD/Dist boxes that don't "turn ON" until you advance the Gain knob a bit- including my Dano TOD. as well as my Biyang "Tube Screamer" ; there is usually a little "static noise" when first advancing the Gain knob, then it kicks in...No big deal.

I gotta agree with Blowtorch, no contest when putting the Dano FAB D up against the GFS Brownie; the Brownie can do a lot, plus for a pedal that is capable of high-Gain, it may be the quietest dirt pedal I own!

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by adeiderich

I have the FAB Overdrive - it's ok with some amps, not so good with others (no definition).

Unless I wasn't really paying attention, the schem for the Fab OD that Clay Jones drew up sure looked like a straight up TS to me, so it should have all the strengths/weaknesses of one.

When I get some time, I'm going to try and convert a SD-1 into a Fab Dist. The SD-1 has the basic skeleton in place. The most notable changes will be to:

- add the hard clipping diodes to ground

- convert the second stage into the "active tone sweeper" circuit that the Fab Dist uses. It will require either a dual op amp or a pair of plain old transistors, so I will have to see what will fit better.

...either way, even though the Dano pedal is so affordable, it would be cool to have something tweakable in a metal box.

It would probably just make more sense to do a custom circuitboard, but with pedal modding fever so rampant, a fairly easy DIY approach could probably be made using the SD-1 as a basis. The hardest part would probably be simply replacing the tone pot if the stock 20K unit couldn't be tweaked to give the right sweep.

Since CJ didn't put the values in the schemo, it will require some value guessing, but for a op amp/clipper pedal, the values of certain parts are usually fairly standard.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Chiogtr4x

the Brownie can do a lot, plus for a pedal that is capable of high-Gain, it may be the quietest dirt pedal I own!

I just pulled out the old runoffgroove.com Peppermill the other day, and put it as a caboose after my Biyang Mouse (same thing as the Brownie).

I now get to have my cake and eat it, too. I can keep the gain on the Mouse at noon or lower, and then ramp back up the gonzo with the PM after it. The coolest part is that by tweaking the gains on those two pedals, I can vary the amount of sag/looseness, or make it very tight and authoritative. It really gives the Rat/Brownie/Mouse a nice dual personality.

And yes - even when used in conjunction with the PM, it is still a quiet combo.

[Chiogtr4x]

^^ What is a Peppermill?!?!?

[jimdd]

i love mine!

i love the danelectro fab tone fuzz even more (the bigger, cast iron kind from the mid-90's.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Chiogtr4x

^^ What is a Peppermill?!?!?

It's a really subtle DIY project. The circuitboard is about the size of a postage stamp.

Really mild OD tones. REALLY mild.

That's why someone like OLC doesn't offer a kit for the Peppermill, but they do for many of the other wonderful projects by runoffgroove.com.

Here's a link to the DIY Peppermill page (warning - pedal egghead material alert).

And here are two (not too fantastic) sound clips of it.

Clip 1

Clip 2

I say not too fantastic, because they are using the Peppermill with cab sim straight into a computer (with a reverb patch). IMO, it sounds much better when you add a decent tube amp to the mix, because it is soooo subtle on its own.

[thinling]

You could leave the Dano always on and put it in a true-bypass loop with a switch - maybe something from Loop-Master. That would cost you more than the pedal, but you could use it for other things too...

[Chiogtr4x]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

It's a really subtle DIY project. The circuitboard is about the size of a postage stamp.

Really mild OD tones. REALLY mild.

That's why someone like OLC doesn't offer a kit for the Peppermill, but they do for many of the other wonderful projects by runoffgroove.com.

Here's a link to the DIY Peppermill page (warning - pedal egghead material alert).

And here are two (not too fantastic) sound clips of it.

Clip 1

Clip 2

I say not too fantastic, because they are using the Peppermill with cab sim straight into a computer (with a reverb patch). IMO, it sounds much better when you add a decent tube amp to the mix, because it is soooo subtle on its own.

Thanks! The clips sounded OK, you can hear what it does- so you pair that up with the RatMouse, right?

which way?

Guitar>OD (Peppermill)> RatMouse>amp
or
Guitar>RatMouse>Peppermill>amp

note:I'm prone to "stacking anxiety", probably as I may use one of the 'dirts' at too high a gain, and then loose control

edit: Just read the "Peppermill" copy- now I want one! Just like the "cranked Fender amp/old Deluxe Reverb " description- though I would probably say similar things about the response or sounds of Dano TOD/Timmy, BD-2 (at Low Gain), or LTD. Are they ALL similar circuits, or just coincidentally reach the same general destination? I guess the Peppermill is simpler?

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Chiogtr4x

which way?

Guitar>RatMouse>Peppermill>amp

^^That way.^^

You typically want the box with the distortion and "core EQ" in front, and then something like the Peppermill comes second, since it is what I refer to as a "mild assist." That way, you can vary just how tight/loose/extra distorted the arrangement is.

Originally Posted by Chiogtr4x

I would probably say similar things about the response or sounds of Dano TOD/Timmy, BD-2 (at Low Gain), or LTD. Are they ALL similar circuits, or just coincidentally reach the same general destination? I guess the Peppermill is simpler?

Peppermill is MUCH simpler. It is really just one transistor driving another one. The first is a mosFET, like in a SHO. The difference is that it isn't set up for so much gain boost, or so much bass (it isn't supposed to clip on its own). The second is a jFET, which is driven into mild clipping, since jFET's give probably the most amount of "amp-like harmonics."

The PM has a simple fixed "tone circuit" on its output that removes just a little bit of treble.

And that's it.

The BD-2 can probably be considered a more complex derivative, but a stock one relies on clipping diodes to alter/limit/control the distortion, because the daggone gain available can be so high as to clip harshly.

Timmy/LTD/etc. are all op amp with clipping diode circuits - really traditional in design.

Lots of gain/clipping diodes = "somewhat traditional" IMO. Kind of just a loose application of the term though.

[Chiogtr4x]

Thanks again for once again your great answers to my non-stop questions (sometimes I feel like the annoying kid that will not stop saying "Why?" ) Now, if I can understand/retain the knowledge or not is my challenge...

I'm gonna try something similar to your above formula using the Brownie and try out my other OD's, as I still find the need to produce more drive/sustain than just what I get from the SOS of turning up Gain/Volume from just one box....thanks !

[Chud]

Got a Fab on order. Should hopefully see and hear it by the end of the week!

[Chiogtr4x]

OK, One more Keith, please!

- after re-reading the differences between the Peppermill and the OD's I cited, is the PM closer in design to the Blackstone? Or am I just digging a deeper hole here...

[cstamper]

Originally Posted by R. Stratenstein

I was blown away by the FAB Chorus I bought for under $20 ! Fabulous sound.

Agreed. Very liquid and shimmering.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Chiogtr4x

Oafter re-reading the differences between the Peppermill and the OD's I cited, is the PM closer in design to the Blackstone?

Maybe on its lowest settings. The PM isn't really anything unique other than it is just very low gain with "abnormally higher" harmonic content.

I guess it is something that is just so very hard to get from op amp/clipping diode-type OD's. Not impossible, but considerably more difficult at the really low gain settings.

You can pop something in front of your BD-2 with Galaxie Mod and get something similar, but you have to run the gain on the BD-2 fairly low, because you want most of your distortion and EQ shaping to come from whatever is in front. The "caboose pedal" is only intended to add just a little more sweetness, and allow control over how tight/loose the tones are. So maybe the GM BD-2 as the caboose, with a TS clone in front, drive set low? Maybe your Brownie might work, but I have a feeling that it could be too much bass at most/all settings.

...Since the PM is such a low gain device, it seems to work really well with this setup.

There are quite a few mosFET or jFET boosters out there, but again they aren't config'ed as a true OD like the PM is.

But if you have access to a Blackstone and can run it with the drive super low, that might be worth trying.