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Old January 19th, 2012, 11:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Klon Buffer (Technical Question)

Trying to avoid discussion of buffers, benefits, preferences… just after some tech specs.

I have a klone and noticed two things that made me scratch my head:

1: Noodling with my computer interface and I plugged in my pedalboard to see if it behaved at all with an amp modeler. I have the klone on the board and use it as my only buffer (all other pedals true-bypass), and I noticed with the klone on or off, and at any volume setting, the amp model interface saw pretty much the same signal.

Almost as if the Klone’s output section didn’t work with the digital input??

2: Had an acoustic practice and again plugged in my board. Using a cheap passive acoustic pickup, plugged strait into the PA, I figured the klone’s buffer would help the pickup.

Again I noticed very little difference with the klone on or off, and a small range on the volume knob.

This time I clicked ON my delay and the acoustic signal got stronger, louder, better…there’s the buffer!


QUESTION: Is there something very different about the Klon(e)s buffer that makes it useless outside of a passive pickup > Klon(e) > tube-amp-input scenario?

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Old January 20th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Have you checked that the Klone was built with buffered bypass and not true bypass?
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Old January 20th, 2012, 09:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Have you checked that the Klone was built with buffered bypass and not true bypass?
+1.

Some Klone builders are clearly going to eliminate the buffered bypass to simplify the build, and because they are probably so used to wiring up the 3PDT a standard way.

The KC uses op amp buffering, which allows for "true unity gain." And since a buffer basically isolates what becomes before and after it (as far as controlling the "integrity" of the signal), any "loading" issues are essentially removed.

Also, what kind of delay pedal was it? Lots of mass produced ones run buffered bypass and re-direct/mix the delay signal in with the dry one. Same thing for trems and other stuff. I'm mainly referring to Boss pedals and such, but there are obviously others.

...But if it is a TBP delay, it still will need the equivalent of buffering or typically a pre stage or two before it hits the delay part of the circuit. And the mix/level control usually requires that there be basically the equivalent of an output buffer when your dry and effected signals are summed back together again. If a delay can't achieve unity gain (whether it's over or under), it is obviously a bit of a problem in most instances.
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Old January 21st, 2012, 01:05 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the responses. The klone is a JHS pedal, has three op-amps, uses only 2 sides of the 3PDT switch, and passes no signal without power...so I'm pretty sure it's buffered, but I didn't trace it.

The delay is a retrosonic (true bypass) DM2-ish pedal.

Just puzzled me that in my weird circumstances the klones buffer would act so differently than the delays...
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Old January 21st, 2012, 11:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the responses. The klone is a JHS pedal, has three op-amps, uses only 2 sides of the 3PDT switch, and passes no signal without power...so I'm pretty sure it's buffered, but I didn't trace it.
Yeah, that is buffered bypass, because IIRC, JHS used Madbeanpedals' (older revision that Brian has since changed IIRC) Sunking layout for their Klone, and the Madbean Klone matches the KC 1:1.

So no need to trace.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 06:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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This is baffling me. I can only suggest that your amp modelling device has some level sensing technology on it's input and it's auto limiting the input signal to stop any nasty distortion occurring where it's not supposed to... A possible reason for hearing an increase in "quality" of the sound with the delay is due to the doubling aspects of using a delay - you have at least twice as much signal present to please your ears!
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