A true "Klon Klone" - does one exist now?

[LakePlacidBlue]

Soon my "original" Klon Centaur will be worth $5000

[effcee]

Andy from ProGuitarShop made a kind of 'Lovepedal Kalamazoo Vs. Klon Centaur' video (you can find it on YouTube) wherein he demo'ed just how closely the Kalamazoo could get to Klon tones -- and it was pretty damn amazing.

Note: The Kalamazoo is not a Klon clone per se. But, boy, does it ever get close when tweaked correctly.

[seicheNZ]

Originally Posted by Dr. Pants

JHS is just using Madbean's layout.

tone monk too.

[Swampash&Tweed]

Originally Posted by swleamon

I've read a mixed bad of responses about this... apparently the original manufacturer was to release a new iteration last year? Well, that is soon to be 2 years... done holding my breath.

Several years ago I sold my original Klon for $450 - I thought it was a brilliant move as I only paid $150 - and now $1500??? No pedal is magical enough to warrant dropping that kind of cash.

YET - I do miss what it did. And i'm now building a new rig and looking for that magic - is anyone making a clone that I can purchase, now? I know you can hire custom builders - but I'm far too impatient for that!

LOL. I did the same. Unloaded mine for $600. I paid around $250. liked it , but don't really miss it. Are you kidding me!!? $1500!!? Thats got to be a joke. Anyone pays that for a little box either has too much money or not enough sense.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by effcee

Note: The Kalamazoo is not a Klon clone per se. But, boy, does it ever get close when tweaked correctly.

Well, then you can save a boatload of money. The Kal is a slightly tweaked Eternity. The Eternity is a Son of Screamer clone. The Son of Screamer was a DIY project that is a Tube Screamer without input or output buffers (just the dual 4558 op amp for the all too familiar drive and tone stages).

The Kal has a quad of diodes - the Eternity has 3. The Kal has a slight variation at the TS-style tone control, nothing super radically different.

Grab either a TS clone kit and bypass the buffers, or get a Green Screamer and (have someone) change just a few parts. If the tone control is too bright (a common complaint with the Lovepedal SoS variations), you can even fatten it up a tad with just a cap change or two.

...or not, if you aren't Andy and can't dial those two in to sound similar.

Someone needs to send that video to Bill F. if he hasn't seen it already...

[smoss469]

Oh I'm sure he's seen that video.

[swleamon]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

It is "branding." In order to stand out from other pedals, his stuff has to look like it was purposefully designed to be superior.

The original KC was designed to be the "top shelf" choice, hence all the hi-fi audio tricks with the design. The Ferrari of drive pedals. IMO, part of the reason it took off was since it had more in common with hi end audio, producers and "guitar sound specialists" found it more appealing than guitarists did. Pros didn't end up with one on their boards because they sought it out - it ended up there because of a producer/sound engineer/etc., and said pro simply didn't object to what it did.

Case in point is the JB pics above. Sometimes the KC might be there, sometimes not. I don't recall hearing JB say that the KC was the best thing since sliced bread, actually just the opposite (he's never raved about any particular pedal TTBOMK).

But the new one will look "unique" even after any future variations. It has to look like the equivalent of an exotic sports car. The gold on the first ones is evidence of that. The polished aluminum and trick red knobs on the 2nd is evidence of that. And now we have this cherry red color with angled knobs.

You should be grateful that he didn't find a more unorthodox mass produced box instead of what looks like a 1590BB. And even if the D.C. jack is in a goofy spot, at least it should be a standard type jack instead of what he used on V1.

But yeah, given the time lapse, the Klones, and "negligible design differences," I now think (after this NAMM debut) that V2 will be loved or hated. It could be just like a comparison between a DRRI and an original BF DR (even though there are BIG differences between those two). The point being that Fender has to compete with their products of yesteryear, and the same thing will happen here.

...So it's not so much competition with the Klones as it is competition with V1 IMO.

Possibly the "smartest move" a Kloner would make is to absolutely duplicate the physical appearance with the KC V1. Those Klones could edge out the others, and possibly even some KC V2 sales.

Good points. But I understand branding very well (as I working in advertising/marketing in my 'past life'). So from a branding standpoint. The new design was a VERY poor choice. It has no resemblance at all to the original. I agree that it is a good thing the case is conventional. Yet, he could have tied on some of the look n feel of the original to have a continuity of brand. This version has none. another golden rule is branding "don't be different just because you can." Some conventions should be a constant - especially in concern to usability (e.g. - knob placement).

And I agree again. THANKFULLY the DC jack is conventional this time (I'm assuming he is now using a charge pump internally to up 9v to 18v)?

Ahhh pedals. Life was so much simpler when there were less than a dozen brands and flavors :-)

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by swleamon

...I working in advertising/marketing in my 'past life'...

...Another golden rule is branding "don't be different just because you can."

I hear ya, and I know that all too well.

I used to do graphic design/illustration/patent illustration, utility patent drafting, design patent drafting, trademarks, and more (in a past life). I did corporate graphics for Solo Cup Company for about a half a decade as well.

None of the big companies did anything just to be different. No money in that.

I "drew" the Absolut Mandarin bottle for the company. Do you see anything different in that one from their others? Nope. It was a fun but boring task at the same time.

Companies like Cinnabon went through 12 revisions of cup designs over the course of 4+ years and approved none of them. There were companies who had circular logos who would not allow them to be "re-shaped" on the different sized cups, because the conical dimensions makes circles look like upside down eggs, but they wanted to "keep the egg shape." The "drop" in the Maxwell House graphics is always accompanied with about 6 complete pages of specifications (liberties can be taken with the cup, the colors, tints, etc.) - if it was deviated from (their specs) at all, the design would be rejected.

Reebok, DeWalt, Coke, McDonalds, Bausch & Lomb, Dairy Queen, NFL, Universal Studios...all have the same branding methods. Really straightforward for anyone who wants to spend a little time researching it (not to say that implementing it is easy - that's what folks like you and I were called in for). I guess in the case of Bill, his branding choices make sense to him in some way that we probably will never know.

[effcee]

Any good entertainment manager will always tell you it's about pushing 'the brand' -- yes, even for musical artists.

"Build the brand! Push the brand! Build the brand! Push the brand!" is their battle cry.

[Geoff738]

Originally Posted by swleamon

Ahh yes. The list art of playing with stage volume only! And yeah what is up with the combo? Looks like it has been 'shamed'.

It was the openers. Can't remember his name - just a kid though.

Did the overseas-made Klon have its debut this past weekend at Namm?

Cheers,
Geoff

[gypsyseven]

I have an amazing Klon clone from a guy here in Germany.To be honest i´ve never played an original Klon but what i know from all the videos...it´s close, very close.

[backalleyblues]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

I did corporate graphics for Solo Cup Company for about a half a decade as well.

Well, then, just for you, ma friend...


And thanks again for all the knowledge you've shared over the years!

Franc Robert

[swleamon]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

I hear ya, and I know that all too well.

I used to do graphic design/illustration/patent illustration, utility patent drafting, design patent drafting, trademarks, and more (in a past life). I did corporate graphics for Solo Cup Company for about a half a decade as well.

None of the big companies did anything just to be different. No money in that.

I "drew" the Absolut Mandarin bottle for the company. Do you see anything different in that one from their others? Nope. It was a fun but boring task at the same time.

Companies like Cinnabon went through 12 revisions of cup designs over the course of 4+ years and approved none of them. There were companies who had circular logos who would not allow them to be "re-shaped" on the different sized cups, because the conical dimensions makes circles look like upside down eggs, but they wanted to "keep the egg shape." The "drop" in the Maxwell House graphics is always accompanied with about 6 complete pages of specifications (liberties can be taken with the cup, the colors, tints, etc.) - if it was deviated from (their specs) at all, the design would be rejected.

Reebok, DeWalt, Coke, McDonalds, Bausch & Lomb, Dairy Queen, NFL, Universal Studios...all have the same branding methods. Really straightforward for anyone who wants to spend a little time researching it (not to say that implementing it is easy - that's what folks like you and I were called in for). I guess in the case of Bill, his branding choices make sense to him in some way that we probably will never know.

11 Gauge, you are a very talent dude!!

[ruger9]

I've said it before & I'll say it again. The Klon is a very nice boost/drive, in an OCEAN of awesome boosts/drives. No need to buy a klone. If you want a Klon because of the legend/prestige, go for it. But a Bad Monkey will get you 95% of the way there, in both boost and drive, and it's a better drive than the Klon. I owned both simultaneously. (yes I know the circuits are not similar; doesn't matter, I'm talking about performance and tone.)

Now, here come the Klon defenders out of the woodwork... ;)

I've listed all the boutique ODs I've owned in a previous thread somewhere... suffice it to say I've had them all... Fulldrive, Zendrive, King of Tone v.4, Varidrive, Klon, klone, yadda yadda yadda. I stopped counting.

[smoss469]

11 Gauge, have you seen the new sh!+storm over at FSB about the Tone Monk Phoenix OD?

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by smoss469

11 Gauge, have you seen the new sh!+storm over at FSB about the Tone Monk Phoenix OD?

Yeah, I stumbled on it.

I've had correspondence with Brian (Madbean Pedals) in the past. I actually helped with the verification of his SFT clone project before it was even on his site (the site may not have even been up yet - I don't remember). I was the guinea pig - he had to revise it based on my build input (missing circuit connection).

Brian is a GREAT guy. He will help anyone, as long as the intention is to learn. That is why he only offers projects, and only offers bare PCB's.

In the case of this Tone Monk thing, it seems that Brian was providing bulk PCB's of the Sunking (Madbean Klone), Fatpants (Echoplex preamp derivative), and Cupcake (I forget what that project is) to this Tone Monk guy for purposes of educational classes on pedal building. Brian was kind enough to provide him with Sunking, Fatpants, and Cupcake boards either with deep discounts or at cost. One or two orders may have even been at a loss - Brian apparently covered shipping, assuming it was a good cause.

...That went on throughout 2011, with the guy who is now "Tone Monk" ceasing any add'l orders at the conclusion of last year. This is straight from Brian, who wanted to give the T.M. fella the benefit of the doubt first, because he seemed legit.

Well, Tone Monk is a for real thing now, as in for profit, and not educational in the least. They have a (gooped) Klone as well as a pedal that contains the Fatpants and Cupcake boards within them. And they have hundreds (perhaps thousands) of these PCB's to use for pedals such as the Phoenix copy of the Sunking.

Not only that, but it has been confirmed that the Seed of Life uses the General Guitar Gadgets TS808 circuitboard in it. That said, I have no idea if a legit arrangement was made with J.D. Sleep to purchase and use their clone TS PCB for production/profit purposes.

But in the case of Brian/Madbean, no such arrangement was made (just the opposite), and Brian has pulled the Sunking project completely from his site. Apparently, it isn't the 1st time someone has used the Sunking verbatim, but it is the most iniquitous and culpable one to date.

[smoss469]

I agree with that. I think after reading the 6-7 pages currently going over there my only real thought was wow, what a lying manipulative dirt bag.

[Scantron08]

Originally Posted by Twangasaurus

I believe JHS will also make one if you ask nicely.

You may have to find his super-secret hidden page off of his website.

[bigp7099]

crap that sucks i bought all the parts to make 2 sunkings, i got one done but i threw out all my paperwork after i built it, hope they post it again when i'm ready to do another or will send me them.

i have a current lover board on order can't wait to get that.

[soulgeezer]

Originally Posted by Scantron08

You may have to find his super-secret hidden page off of his website.

It's really not all that secret... (google is your friend! )