Somebody explain Klon to me.

[blues dues]

It's obviously not in production anymore which is the biggest reason why it's so expensive as it wasn't cheap even when in production. It's not meant to be a gain heavy overdrive, it's very transparent & no, everyone can't hear the difference it makes in the audience & even alot of players can't hear it but then some musicians have perfect pitch & some are tone deaf even if they don't realize it. Analogman makes a similar Transparent drive called the King Of Tone which currently has a 2 year waiting list & sells for just over $250. You can get them on eBay for about $400 if you cant take the 2 year wait. Bottom line is they are both transparent drives & won't make you sound better than your talent level like a lot of overdrives do but if you've got the chops then these pedals are amazing in a live situation.

[JesterR]

It's a collectible thing, like rare coins or postcards.

If you want a great, durable pedal with transparent sound... Just buy something from Barber. :)

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by hotrodkid

FWIW , back in 09 .011 Guage spoke highly of the builder (JHS) and expected a true clone..... IMO he was right. That's why I bought it. All the other Klon clones I heard were too bright or heavier sounding.

I need to clarify, as there are two "JHS's" out there. One was simply an individual on the DIY forums with a WEALTH of information at a truly deep technical level. I don't know his education, but wouldn't be surprised if he was something like an EE.

Anyway, the "JHS that I spoke of" (who lives somewhere in Europe, IIRC), and this JHS outfit that has all these pedals like the Sweet Tea/Charlie Brown/etc./etc. (forgive me as I'm not super familiar with all of his wares) is copying stuff designed by others. He has copied at least two Devi Ever designs to the point that she is sueing for damages, and he has used the circuitboard Klon clone layouts, along with Crunchbox and other layouts from a guy who has a site called Mad Bean Pedals. As a result, Brian does not offer his Sunking Klone as anything more than a DIY PDF file.

This isn't to say that the JHS pedals aren't good sounding or anything, just that he tends to "heavily borrow" from the labors of others. And AFAIK, he has no arrangement with Finnegan whatsoever. Bill would never do anything like that, ever.

Regarding the "nothing will sound like a true Klon" statement, that is simply bunk. The story behind it is that Bill bought up ALL the old stock of some mystery germanium diode, and claims that no substitute will work and sound just like a real KC. it is bunk because enough folks have a/b'ed an original and their clone to verify if it is 1:1. When they can happily confirm that such is the case, they can sell the real deal for those stupid high prices that you see on the used market. It would be crazy not to, IMO.

Regarding Jim Campilongo using one - he actually responded HERE and said that it was mainly just used in the studio when recording Loose. It was more of a suggestion from the producer, to help and "process" some of the recorded tracks. Jim is the kind of guy who simply wouldn't mess with something like the KC when playing out live. Not a knock against the KC - he just doesn't need it for his sound.

IMO, the best part of the KC is the boost part of the circuit - none of the other parts really come into play unless you run the drive knob higher, and many KC users don't set it up that way. So you can actually seek out builders who have the boost ONLY from the KC.

It is also the kind of pedal that typically takes awhile (as in years) to really understand if its merits are worth it to the individual user, or not. It isn't something that (I think) you can make a quick impression decision about. It is one of the more rig-specific/application-specific pedals out there.

Bear in mind that a lot of what I have said is based on what I have learned over the years, in particular my comments about the JHS that everyone is currently familiar with. I have no issues with the guy, but wanted to be clear that I was NOT referring to his Klones in '09, or at least I was not aware that there were TWO guys with the same initials/company name/etc. If you dig anyone's pedal, that is really the bottom line.

[JoeNeri]

I'm one of those few players that actually owned, gigged with and recorded with a "gold horsie" Klon Centaur, one of the originals purchased directly from Bill Finnegan in 1998.

These discussions need to keep the context of the late '90's in mind. The Klon was one of the first boutique pedals, before Youtube demo videos and many internet forums. I played mine for a couple of years - it was (and is) a great boost pedal. It was (and is) an average mild gain overdrive pedal. But it was a great alternative to anything being made by Boss, MXR, EH, DOD, etc. at the time.

Today, there are more than a few pedals that can do the same thing, both clones as well as original designs. But the Klon mystique continues (just like the TS808 and TS9 mystique discussed on another thread on this Forum). Klon has been out of production for a couple of years now, and the long-promised small box version is nowhere in sight. So, as stupid as the Ebay prices may seem to most of us, they are somewhat understandable.

I paid $239 for mine - the most I've ever paid for any pedal - and that was certainly high in the late '90's, too. I sold it a few years later for just under $400, not because I was looking to make a big score but because I wanted some other pedals and the going price for a Klon at that time made it possible.

The Klon Centaur - an original design by an innovative guy that was ahead of its time. And, just like every other pedal out there today, not for everyone. If Finnegan were back in production with his small box version, would I buy it - probably not.

[hotrodkid]

Originally Posted by blues dues

It's not meant to be a gain heavy overdrive, it's very transparent

Sorry but I have to disagree. It's not a very transparent effect. It has a very upper, weird mid boost (nothing like a TS) combined with that very noticable 3D presence. It's very different. But that doesn't mean it's very good. JMO

And as far as the price..I bought mine a while ago. I vaguley remember it being around $300 shipped. At the time the Klon's were selling in the $600 - $800 range. Seemed like a deal as I'm not a collector.

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

I have no issues with the guy, but wanted to be clear that I was NOT referring to his Klones in '09, or at least I was not aware that there were TWO guys with the same initials/company name/etc. If you dig anyone's pedal, that is really the bottom line.

FWIW, I wasn't trying to throw you under the bus. The Klone that was being discussed at that time, at least to the best of my knowledge, was the model that I now own. You made a general statement of what you expected. Right guy, wrong guy for me it doesn't matter now because the Klone I bought based on that discussion/statement turned out to be a dead-on, 1:1 clone. At least to my ears. I'm happy for that. So thanks.

[JoeNeri]

Originally Posted by hotrodkid

Sorry but I have to disagree. It's not a very transparent effect. It has a very upper, weird mid boost (nothing like a TS) combined with that very noticable 3D presence. It's very different. But that doesn't mean it's very good.

Agree. Even at no gain settings, it adds some "texture" to your tone.

[chrisgblues]

I have a 1:1 Klone and I find the following general statements from others to be absolutely true:

1. The gain sucks. I use it up to about 1 o'clock but not past that.
2. It's got lots of boost...but so do tons of other pedals on today's market
3. It is NOT transparent...it has a mid-hump. That's not a good thing or a bad thing, it's just true. Besides, why would anyone want to pay good money for a pedal that sounds like it's not on?
4. It was kind of a 'breakthrough' back in the day, but not anymore.

IMHO it sounds a lot like a tube screamer. Not exactly of course, but same sort of principles. You know, cut a smidgeon of bass, boost some mids, and crank the volume...you get a nice boost that compliments a (insert Fender-style tube amp here).

Therefore, the prices these days are purely due to collectibility, not sonic goodness. Ever watch those Auction shows on TV? People pay big money for stuff for no particular reason other than they have to have it!

JMHO. YMMV.

[blowtorch]

Regarding the midboost, I heard someone say once that the Klon is great if you want everything you play to sound like AC/DC's "Back in Black" album (and that they didn't like it for that reason).

[chippertheripper]

Originally Posted by surfoverb

bad monkey=$20 used

I appreciate the history lesson as much as the next guy, but this is really the best post in this thread.

[HOBBSTER01]

Originally Posted by chippertheripper

I appreciate the history lesson as much as the next guy, but this is really the best post in this thread.

I totally agree.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by hotrodkid

FWIW, I wasn't trying to throw you under the bus. The Klone that was being discussed at that time, at least to the best of my knowledge, was the model that I now own. You made a general statement of what you expected. Right guy, wrong guy for me it doesn't matter now because the Klone I bought based on that discussion/statement turned out to be a dead-on, 1:1 clone. At least to my ears. I'm happy for that. So thanks.

I know - I was just trying to be clear, because I've gotten in BIG trouble in the past for critiqueing pedals made by "other builders," because I build them too. The problem was I was (and still am) an unofficial vendor, so the basic premise is that I should be considered a competitor with an axe to grind. But if you look at my very long history posting here, you will find that I have ALWAYS been that way.

I just need to clarify whenever it appears that I have what looks like an endorsement/criticism of ANY pedal by ANY manufacturer. IOW, I need to cover my own arse.

I used to put the "unofficial vendor" thing in a proviso with all my responses after getting my hand slapped, but:

1. My comments/criticisms are as a lover and user of pedals only.

and

2. It is virtually common knowledge that I am an unofficial vendor. I was thoroughly "outed" by vendors/fans of vendors that I felt threatened by my criticisms of.

So I KNOW you weren't trying to throw me under the bus - it's usually to the contrary. I just have to "tread carefully," and when my name pops up in reference to something from years past, I usually have to say something that elaborates on that, as well.

[hotrodkid]

Originally Posted by chippertheripper

I appreciate the history lesson as much as the next guy, but this is really the best post in this thread.

Yeah my kids love that video too. They like the little girl in the beginning and the green box on the table. They like anything bright green, lizards, dirt bikes.. They're 6 and 8.

I personally don't hear that they sound the same. I even closed my eyes and I hear differences. I know we are splitting hairs but that's why the video was produced in the first place? Another thing I don't like about that video is (if you check my other post) he starts the test with the gain knob on the Klon at 10 o'clock, IMO, just out of the sweet spot. I like and use it at 8 - 9 1/2 on the gain, Volume 2 o'clock - maxed and tone 12 - 2 o'clock. Can't look over the importance of finding/setting up any pedal at it's sweet spot. We do with our amps? Pedals are no different. JMO

I will be the first to say it's not the best "gainy" OD pedal. Like another poster stated. "everything starts to sound like AC/DC's Back in Black" For that type of stuff I use a Tube Slammer (JRC4558D) by CMATMODS. It's the Holy Grail. But when I set it up to do what I use the Klone for - The CMATMODS TS sounds thin and flat.

Like .011 Guage stated it's not for everyone and it's more task specific. And the only reason they are so expensive is supply/demand. Not for it's untouchable tonal godness.

People pay crazy prices for other gimmick/vintage pedals, Lovepedal Plexi, DOD 250, original RAT, etc.. It's no biggie for me. YMMV tho..

[Deep South]

Wow, thx guys, I didn't expect to learn so much about Klon.

[hotrodkid]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

I just have to "tread carefully," and when my name pops up in reference to something from years past, I usually have to say something that elaborates on that, as well.

Sorry but I just quoted you again! well not verbatim so I guess I'm ok. I'll try and refrain from that in the future.

[hotrodkid]

Originally Posted by Deep South

Wow, thx guys, I didn't expect to learn so much about Klon.

No biggie. Personally when I first saw the thread I did'nt think anybody was going to respond so I waited to put my 2 cents in. We usually don't like the Klon thing here because it always goes in the same direction. But I guess we all have some extra time on our hands and that's why we're here. Peace

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by JoeNeri

These discussions need to keep the context of the late '90's in mind. The Klon was one of the first boutique pedals, before Youtube demo videos and many internet forums...

So very true. It's easy to forget the "days of few options," when it was really only KC, Fulltone, Prescription Electronics, Vex, WHE, and maybe a handful of others. Those guys basically were the only ones that the masses had access to, if their pockets were deep enough.

Originally Posted by JoeNeri

Today, there are more than a few pedals that can do the same thing, both clones as well as original designs.

This is something I've had mulling around in my head for a few years now. I think I've come to the conclusion that in some instances, the KC has been surpassed, and for pennies on the dollar. What's not to like about that?

What a lot of folks don't realize is that Bill had the KC "designed by committee," and then he would tell them (the group of designers) what he wanted altered. While it is a good design overall, one of the designers came forward and revealed that certain aspects of the design would always be a compromise, because Bill couldn't have everything that he was asking of them. IOW, they basically pushed the design as far as they could, and keep Bill satisfied in the process.

The other thing that is not clearly apparent is that once the KC was accurately replicated, it was possible for bright minds to figure out ways to alter/augment/simplify its design. Trust me - no pedal is the be all/end all for all eternity. Even guys like Alf Hermida are OTR stating that the Zendrive is nothing more than a step in OD evolution.

...These "bright minds" have already figured out how to get the KC to run at 9VDC without compromising the sound at all. That is REALLY significant, but it was something that Bill probably would never have agreed to or allowed. Too bad, because it would have eliminated the funky D.C. jack that a lot of folks never liked.

Originally Posted by JoeNeri

Klon has been out of production for a couple of years now, and the long-promised small box version is nowhere in sight.

That's because Bill simply won't compromise on how so many things with the KC has to be. The pots in the big one are super high quality, and IDK if he will ever find something in a compact form that he will accept. The buffered bypass was no accident either - it allows for a much more rugged DPDT footswitch to be used. I think (but don't know) that Bill just really wanted it to be like the Polk Audio equivalent of a dirt box. Even having those enclosures made cost a fortune and took much more time than boxes that don't require custom fabrication.

Originally Posted by JoeNeri

The Klon Centaur - an original design by an innovative guy that was ahead of its time. And, just like every other pedal out there today, not for everyone. If Finnegan were back in production with his small box version, would I buy it - probably not.

It might have been eclipsed, but just the same I suggest that the curious give one a whirl, even if it is a Klone that might not be 1:1. Sometimes things don't need to evolve any further for the user to have found the pedal of their dreams. And we've mentioned the psychoacoustic principle in other threads - it is possible to hear something that no other pedal can provide, whether you are "truly hearing it," or not.

[imsilly]

The best thing about the Klon Centaur is it's case, that is truly awesome. I wish I could afford to get something like that made for the pedal I build for myself. I'm sick of Hammond enclosures.

As for the rest of the pedal it's good, but I've played better. I'd still take a good Rangemaster type as a boost and tube overdrive for dirt, so as far as I'm concerned it's a bit redundant.

I'm just annoyed I didn't buy one at retail when they were still available because I thought it was overpriced. Looking back that was a stupid move. Even more stupid was listening to Bill Finnegan when he said to just wait for the cheap version of the Klon to go into production.

[Teleglide]

I bought my Klon new about 10 years ago when prices were reasonable, and I love it. I leave the gain off and the volume up, using it more as a boost than an OD. I agree that turning the gain up doesn't do much.

I've tried some Klon clones that were OK. I'd like to check out the JHS. I also tried a Bad Monkey and the Zoom Power Drive. I don't think either is remotely similar to a Klon, although they're not bad pedals.

My favorite OD pedal is the Barber Custom Cool, which is also on my board. Using either the Klon , the Barber, or both gives me all the options I need.

I recognize that many people love to hate the Klon, which is kind of a mystery to me. It's just a pedal.

[refin]

Ain't no metal box of parts worth $1000..............sorry.
After around $250,it's just snake oil.

[Dr. Pants]

I don't buy Finnegan's diode story for a minute.
Apparently the Klon is going into some sort of
commercial production, not unlike Way Huge
being produced by Dunlop.

So, what will they do when they run out of magic diodes
in the commercial run? Just stop? I doubt it. Who'd sign to
an agreement like that?

Anyway, those of us with 1:1 or original Klons know the truth.
They aren't THAT special. They're good, but these days you can get
better for less. Machine Head Pedals, Barber and a few others are making pedals far cooler than a Klon. I'd sell my Klone, but would NOT part with my V1 Blues Breaker for anything.