Harmonic Feedback

Ken · September 2nd, 2004, 11:23 AM

One of the effects on a song I love has the note played and then a few seconds later the note turns into a harmonic. The note stays original for quite a few seconds though before turning to a harmonic.
How is this achieved?

It cant be a pinch harmonic or it would sound harmonic right away, I would think...

Also.. I know these guys are not using Tele's ... but can this be achieved using a typical MIM Tele?

It's a terrific sound, and I would really love to do it.

stantheman · September 2nd, 2004, 11:35 AM

Ken, what's the title of the song?
There's about 4 different ways to do it that I know of
the most obvious being an Amp with 6V6's running WIDE
OPEN, also they could have just overdubbed the track,
also if there's two Guitarists one could have held the note
and the "other one" could have hit the Harmonic when
the firsy guy's sustain faded, and finally if he was playing
a hollow or semi-hollow he just held on to it CRANKED.

Ken · September 2nd, 2004, 01:08 PM

This is 1 guitar , 1 note that sustains and then turns into a harmonic.
The song is called "Sunday Morning" .
I know those guys use all humbuckers...

tomtheguitarguy · September 2nd, 2004, 01:47 PM

Definitely easier with humbuckers.

Make sure your guitar and amp are cranked. (and some good gain wouldn't hurt either)

Hit the note, then turn the guitar so that the pickups are facing the speaker - the closer your get to the speaker, the more you'll hear the feedback.

Hope this helps.

tomtheguitarguy

TheGoodTexan · September 2nd, 2004, 01:50 PM

Funny that you post this now...

Last night I was playing my Strat into my Alamo Montclair (which uses two 6V6s), using a custom "octave-fuzz-face" that a friend built for me a while back. My wife was at work, so I had that little amp cranked up loud, and I was getting the same "harmonic" that you're describing.

I notice it more on the neck pickup, with the volume rolled back to about 7. The neck pickup of a Strat is placed just under a set of natural harmonics, so it's much easier to reproduce there.

But yeah - gain and volume - those are the key elements.

jordanl · September 2nd, 2004, 02:39 PM

another technique, is to just lightly touch the string 12 frets above the held note, the harmonic will jump out. I recall the guy from Night Ranger had a lot of cool harmonic and whammy tricks.

bo · September 2nd, 2004, 03:21 PM

You can also hit the note then hold the headstock against the amp. The vibration helps the note sustain as is before turning to a harmonic. You don't need as much volume doing it that way. if you do it at high volume it can just make the note stay "as is" or set unmuted strings to feeding back.

moonshiner · September 2nd, 2004, 03:34 PM

Theodore Nugent.... If he isn't playing false harmonics with his blazing hair-metal deftness... You can find Mr. Fred Baird hunting wildlife down at his "preserve" in Texas or up in Michigan...

Boss makes a distortion/harmonic pedal.. I just saw it and heard some samples from tonefrenzy.com...

Tim Swartz · September 2nd, 2004, 06:20 PM

The most famous example of that phenom is probably Hendrix' Woodstock Star Spangled Banner....When he hits the note on the word "wave" he vibratos it until it shifts octaves... Relatively easy to accomplish with a cranked up amp with some gain.

BB · September 2nd, 2004, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken

One of the effects on a song I love has the note played and then a few seconds later the note turns into a harmonic. The note stays original for quite a few seconds though before turning to a harmonic.
How is this achieved?

It cant be a pinch harmonic or it would sound harmonic right away, I would think...

Also.. I know these guys are not using Tele's ... but can this be achieved using a typical MIM Tele?

It's a terrific sound, and I would really love to do it.

Yes , it can be done with a tele...some easier than others depending on your pickups. You have to be very careful about generating pickup squeal instead of harmonic feedback. Using my chambered tele with a bucker in the neck and a bridge pup wound closer to a P-90, has proven to be easier than using my stock tele in generating controlable, harmonic feeback. I have my amp on a stand, so by getting closer to the amp and turning my body a certain way ( with overdrive pedal(s) on ) the feedback starts. Using a Fulltone 69 pedal into a Vox Valve Tone was the easiest and most musical way to do this. That combo with the chambered body was like having a built in E-Bow or Sustaniac. I love that tone. It's a wonderful feeling to have such touch control over the dynamics.

tomtheguitarguy · September 2nd, 2004, 11:06 PM

Sorry not to respond about Tele's in the first place - me bad! especially since I play Tele's!!!!

Yes, it can be done on a Tele. Use the bridge p/u with the volume & gain high. It doesn't have to be cranked, but it does need to be there (experiment!).

Obviously, an amp with a gain control will help, but any OD pedal like a tube screamer will work as well. The idea is to get the gain up and going and then have the sound coming from your speaker is picked up through your pickups (like feedback from a microphone).

Hope this helps.

tomtheguitarguy

Ken · September 2nd, 2004, 11:30 PM

Thanks Tom, BB and others.
I guess the goal , like you said, is to get the sound waves to come back and re-vibrate the string and/ or go through the pick up again in a melodic controlled way.
Tough for me as I live in a town-house!! :D
In the studio, it cant really be cranked up to 10 can it? Maybe that is where the sustaniac and like products come in?
I was hoping that there was a pedal you could get that would be able to do this at low volumes... guess i'll stick with the pinch harmonics , etc.
Thanks again

Tim Bowen · September 3rd, 2004, 07:58 AM

I assume Ken is talking about a sustained note that gradually morphs into a harmonic overtone, as opposed to the 12-frets-above tap that jordan mentioned (which is also really cool, but more of an immediate transition).

Allan Holdsworth is a master of this technique; check out "Devil Take The Hindmost" from the Metal Fatigue record.

As others have said, gain is the trick here. When I played high gain Boogie amps & humbuckers, it was easily coaxed. Generally, if you have gain to the point of the verge of feedback, harmonic overtones will usually greet you.

As for getting these tones from low output Fender-type singles & typical tube amps, you'll need a serious gainer pedal for sure. Rats, Fulltone Distortion Pro, BJFE Dyna Red, various fuzzes, & gainers in tandem, have all gotten me there.

As BB said, the E-bow is a guaranteed ticket for this sound. I've also found that using a glass slide & fingers with a moderate amount of gain can generate a bit of the cool harmonic overtone stuff.

telewacked · September 3rd, 2004, 11:39 AM

In one of Arlens old instructional videos, he demonstrates the 12th fret above tap. While it is instantaneos, it can still "bloom" like feedback if the amp is setup right and you give the right touch. If theres any feedback starting at all (good feedback), then the touch seems real effective and can seem like a pretty smooth transition. The touch is a very light one, exactly on top of the fret wire 12 frets up from the fretted note.
I had a Brad Gillis instructional video at one time, and I remember him using this technique too, so theres a chance that's what you're hearing. In this video, he was using his 80's Don't Tell Me You Love Me gear, and while the tone was cool, it is WAY processed and compressed. He also used the whammy bar on these types of things...getting a harmonic going and making it scream by riding the whammy...
Cool stuff...have fun with it

Tim Swartz · September 3rd, 2004, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken

In the studio, it cant really be cranked up to 10 can it?

Heck yes! It is a key ingredient to a great recorded guitar sound.

Jay N. · September 3rd, 2004, 01:13 PM

The quickest way I've found to get that sound is to buy a V-Stack. I never use that much gain, but I borrowed a friend's and it was kind of fun to play with for awhile.

http://www.v-stack.com/

September 2nd, 2004, 11:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ken Banned Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: North Milky Way Age: 40 Posts: 258	Harmonic Feedback One of the effects on a song I love has the note played and then a few seconds later the note turns into a harmonic. The note stays original for quite a few seconds though before turning to a harmonic. How is this achieved? It cant be a pinch harmonic or it would sound harmonic right away, I would think... Also.. I know these guys are not using Tele's ... but can this be achieved using a typical MIM Tele? It's a terrific sound, and I would really love to do it.

September 2nd, 2004, 11:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
stantheman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: White Mountains Posts: 5,006	Ken, what's the title of the song? There's about 4 different ways to do it that I know of the most obvious being an Amp with 6V6's running WIDE OPEN, also they could have just overdubbed the track, also if there's two Guitarists one could have held the note and the "other one" could have hit the Harmonic when the firsy guy's sustain faded, and finally if he was playing a hollow or semi-hollow he just held on to it CRANKED. __________________ Somebody Loan Me A Dime

September 2nd, 2004, 03:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
moonshiner Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Milyucky, Whiskonsin Posts: 2,169	Ahh... Theodore Nugent.... If he isn't playing false harmonics with his blazing hair-metal deftness... You can find Mr. Fred Baird hunting wildlife down at his "preserve" in Texas or up in Michigan... Boss makes a distortion/harmonic pedal.. I just saw it and heard some samples from tonefrenzy.com...

September 3rd, 2004, 07:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tim Bowen Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Age: 48 Posts: 3,300	I assume Ken is talking about a sustained note that gradually morphs into a harmonic overtone, as opposed to the 12-frets-above tap that jordan mentioned (which is also really cool, but more of an immediate transition). Allan Holdsworth is a master of this technique; check out "Devil Take The Hindmost" from the Metal Fatigue record. As others have said, gain is the trick here. When I played high gain Boogie amps & humbuckers, it was easily coaxed. Generally, if you have gain to the point of the verge of feedback, harmonic overtones will usually greet you. As for getting these tones from low output Fender-type singles & typical tube amps, you'll need a serious gainer pedal for sure. Rats, Fulltone Distortion Pro, BJFE Dyna Red, various fuzzes, & gainers in tandem, have all gotten me there. As BB said, the E-bow is a guaranteed ticket for this sound. I've also found that using a glass slide & fingers with a moderate amount of gain can generate a bit of the cool harmonic overtone stuff. __________________ "Everyone is different in how they learn, but for me, it's turning the pegs and just playing." - BB

September 3rd, 2004, 11:39 AM	#14 (permalink)
telewacked Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Shawnee, KS Posts: 243 11 Photos	Arlen Roth and Brad Gillis In one of Arlens old instructional videos, he demonstrates the 12th fret above tap. While it is instantaneos, it can still "bloom" like feedback if the amp is setup right and you give the right touch. If theres any feedback starting at all (good feedback), then the touch seems real effective and can seem like a pretty smooth transition. The touch is a very light one, exactly on top of the fret wire 12 frets up from the fretted note. I had a Brad Gillis instructional video at one time, and I remember him using this technique too, so theres a chance that's what you're hearing. In this video, he was using his 80's Don't Tell Me You Love Me gear, and while the tone was cool, it is WAY processed and compressed. He also used the whammy bar on these types of things...getting a harmonic going and making it scream by riding the whammy... Cool stuff...have fun with it

September 2nd, 2004, 01:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ken Banned Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: North Milky Way Age: 40 Posts: 258	This is 1 guitar , 1 note that sustains and then turns into a harmonic. The song is called "Sunday Morning" . I know those guys use all humbuckers...

September 2nd, 2004, 01:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
tomtheguitarguy Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SoCal USA Age: 42 Posts: 242	Definitely easier with humbuckers. Make sure your guitar and amp are cranked. (and some good gain wouldn't hurt either) Hit the note, then turn the guitar so that the pickups are facing the speaker - the closer your get to the speaker, the more you'll hear the feedback. Hope this helps. tomtheguitarguy

September 2nd, 2004, 02:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
jordanl Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Farmingdale, NY Posts: 554	another technique, is to just lightly touch the string 12 frets above the held note, the harmonic will jump out. I recall the guy from Night Ranger had a lot of cool harmonic and whammy tricks.

September 2nd, 2004, 03:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
bo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,766	You can also hit the note then hold the headstock against the amp. The vibration helps the note sustain as is before turning to a harmonic. You don't need as much volume doing it that way. if you do it at high volume it can just make the note stay "as is" or set unmuted strings to feeding back.

September 2nd, 2004, 06:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,881	The most famous example of that phenom is probably Hendrix' Woodstock Star Spangled Banner....When he hits the note on the word "wave" he vibratos it until it shifts octaves... Relatively easy to accomplish with a cranked up amp with some gain.

September 2nd, 2004, 11:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
tomtheguitarguy Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SoCal USA Age: 42 Posts: 242	Sorry not to respond about Tele's in the first place - me bad! especially since I play Tele's!!!! Yes, it can be done on a Tele. Use the bridge p/u with the volume & gain high. It doesn't have to be cranked, but it does need to be there (experiment!). Obviously, an amp with a gain control will help, but any OD pedal like a tube screamer will work as well. The idea is to get the gain up and going and then have the sound coming from your speaker is picked up through your pickups (like feedback from a microphone). Hope this helps. tomtheguitarguy

September 2nd, 2004, 11:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ken Banned Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: North Milky Way Age: 40 Posts: 258	Thanks Tom, BB and others. I guess the goal , like you said, is to get the sound waves to come back and re-vibrate the string and/ or go through the pick up again in a melodic controlled way. Tough for me as I live in a town-house!! :D In the studio, it cant really be cranked up to 10 can it? Maybe that is where the sustaniac and like products come in? I was hoping that there was a pedal you could get that would be able to do this at low volumes... guess i'll stick with the pinch harmonics , etc. Thanks again

September 3rd, 2004, 01:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
Jay N. Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 198	The quick route... The quickest way I've found to get that sound is to buy a V-Stack. I never use that much gain, but I borrowed a friend's and it was kind of fun to play with for awhile. http://www.v-stack.com/