Boost Pedals: I just don't get it.

[Tom P.]

I've read about and tried a few boost pedals. I understand that they are designed to drive the preamp harder/improve tone. But to me, they just make the amp louder not "fatter".
Why not just turn up the vol knob. What am I missing here?:?

[TB72]

Boost pedals aren't going to be everyone's cup of tea. For some players (myself included), it's convenient to have a preset volume boost for lead work. Personally, I find it easier to stomp on a pedal than it is to manipulate the guitar's volume knob on the fly. (There are lots of folks who ARE quite good at working their volume controls in mid-flight...I just find it a little awkward.)

As far as the "louder but not fatter" statement, that will depend on the pedal. For example, right now, I'm using a Boss GE7 as my boost, and I can shape the tone pretty much any way I want (fatter, thinner, etc. etc.).

Bottom line is, if you don't get the concept of boost pedals, or your personal style doesn't call for one, then you need not have one on your pedalboard. No one's forcing you.

Later...

[11 Gauge]

what pedal and amp combo are you using?

i think the boost term can be a little misleading: some refer to it as a clean boost, some as a fat boost, etc. etc....

i use boost to push the amp harder, into saturation. but i don't use a 'real' boost pedal - i use something like a BluesDriver or similar, with lots of gonzo on tap.

i'm guessing that the more popular application is to give a little extra volume and fatness, for solos. so i would think you wouldn't want to overdrive your preamp in this instance.

boosts are like so many other types of pedals - you have to get a good marriage between the amp and pedal.

[BrianF]

A clean boost is like having an extra gain stage. They are most effective and noticeable when using a single-coil pickup guitar.....connected in front of a classic tube amp that has a limited amount of preamp stage gain...such as a classic Fender tube amp. They make no sense (or alot less sense) driving something like Mesa Boogie, Marshall etc with humbuckers (for example).

Just turning up the volume of a classic tube amp....isn't the same thing. The first preamp tube stage will not be driven fully.....with a clean boost it will (or can be). It makes a difference in tone that is very noticeable.

[TheGoodTexan]

Originally Posted by BrianF

A clean boost is like having an extra gain stage. They are most effective and noticeable when using a single-coil pickup guitar.....connected in front of a classic tube amp that has a limited amount of preamp stage gain...such as a classic Fender tube amp. They make no sense (or alot less sense) driving something like Mesa Boogie, Marshall etc with humbuckers (for example).

Just turning up the volume of a classic tube amp....isn't the same thing. The first preamp tube stage will not be driven fully.....with a clean boost it will (or can be). It makes a difference in tone that is very noticeable.

And the debate begins.... :)

To me, the term "clean boost" has always meant same tone, louder volume (for use during leads and solos). Clean means transparent, or "does not add extra stuff"...

Using a pedal to push your amp from one level of drive to another is not clean boosting, IMO.

[Kris]

Using a pedal to push your amp from one level of drive to another is not clean boosting, IMO.

What a clean boost does is provide a clean boost to the signal. A typical overdrive pedal will add some clipping, i.e. not a clean boost to the signal.

What happens to the signal thereafter is another matter, e.g. depends on signal strength, type of amp, amp settings, etc.

Kris

[BrianF]

When I think of a clean boost....it is just that...a preamp stage that does not necessarily clip, and / is lacking in any distortion creating devices such as diodes.

A Tube Screamer circuit contains a high gain stage which utilizes diodes for clipping which creates distortion.

Without the diodes the tube screamer could actually be used as a clean boost (i.e like an MXR micro-amp etc)

An effect that is transparent, just means that it doesn't change the frequency response of your guitar signal. You can accomplish this in a clean boost effect, but you also can do the same with circuits that create distortion....i.e. have the same frequency response.

The fact that a Tube-Screamer has a mid-range frequency hump....is completley due to the frequency response of it's tone-shaping circuits...which can be altered if so desired (by re-design of component value choices and / or circuit topology).

[Mike Rice]

Part of the problem with the term "clean boost" is that it's not entirely up to the pedal, the amp gets a vote as well. What works as a clean boost with a Twin Reverb will likely drive a Vibro Champ into saturation. A clean boost pedal simply means that all the pedal is doing is boosting the signal, not creating any sort of clipping as an overdrive or distortion would do.

Turning up your amp will NOT perform the same function as a boost pedal, especially if you're using a smaller combo like a Vibrolux or Deluxe Reverb. Using a boost pedal you're generating a hotter signal to both the preamp and, subsequently, the power amp. Using such a pedal will even have an effect on the rectifier section. This stuff doesn't happen by turning the amp up.

A pair of clean boost pedals (Bad Bobs) are the only thing I use in my chain aside from my recently acquired Voodoo Lab Analog Chorus. It really preserves the single coil tone I get from each of my Teles while allowing me to hit the amp with something having the muscle of a higher output PU if I so choose. It might be a clean boost with a bigger amp, as the signal coming out of the pedal is indeed clean. But it causes a wonderful little grit with a Vibrolux that no OD pedal has ever been able to emulate for me.

Play around with a good boost pedal and don't be afraid to use the volume knob on your guitar. I think most folks would be pleasantly surprised.

[Ben Harmless]

Good stuff here. The only new bit I have to offer is to slightly dispute BrianF's assertion that boosts in front of Marshalls or Mesas make no sense. While I agree that Mesas have plenty of gain already, lots of old metal tones were gotten by boosting a cranked Marshall.

The other thing is that one can get a good rthym tone with their amp, and then boost for a little extra gain for leads.

This type of approach is best used with humbuckers or at least a noise gate, because single coil tele pickups tend to create massive feedback and noise when that much gain and volume is involved.

[John E]

...until I tried one live. In a store or at home you can't quite get what it's really doing... it just sounds for the most part like a volume boost. I had the opportunity to try out a Zvex SHO live at a gig a couple of months ago... I had played them in stores before and thought "OK, so what's the big deal?" But when I tried it Live, when my amp was cooking and I was sitting somewhere in the middle of a mix... it was very cool. Getting the levels set was tricky, but in the 2nd set I was able to boost some solos w/o adding to much dirt, and also add a 2nd slightly grittier rhythm tone. The SHO also added a little top end sparkle to get my leads to cut a little bit more, and made the rig more touch sensitive. So have I bought one? Nope, I can do most of that pretty reasonably with the gain turned down and level turned up on my modded BD-2. It's a slightly different sound with the BD-2, and I preferred that type of "boosting" more with the SHO, but with the BD-2 I have some gain(a lot) on tap if needed. So I haven't deemed it worthwhile to spend the 200 bananas or whatever they go for now... Honestly I really want to try a Bad Bob live though...

[Mike Rice]

I just sold one of my Bad Bobs, too bad you weren't at the last jam where I had it for sale. I still have one because it's the prototype, so that one I'll keep forever. I had been using 2 but convinced Robbie to build me a Double Barrell Boost with 2 Bad Bobs in one pedal. I can get everything from "clean boost" to saturated distortion by driving one unit with the other.

I was going to ask "why not keep the BD2 and get a boost pedal", but you addressed that issue. Good news; the Bad Bob is only $119 brand new. Built like a tank, true bypass, and I personally like it better than the SHO, much better than the Fat Boost. You can poke around, but mine was the first used pedal I'd ever seen adverstised, and that was only because Robbie built me that one-off pedal.

You can check it all out the next time you make a Hudson Valley Jam!

[Tom P.]

John E -

In a store or at home you can't quite get what it's really doing... it just sounds for the most part like a volume boost.

Thats what my experience has been.
I am using a vintage style BF amp. I have also tweaked around with my OD, gain/low - signal/up as a boost of sorts.
Its difficult for me to hear the tone change because of the vol jump.
I have been trying to keep the volume down, and was hoping for a good result from the boost without the volume spike.

[TB72]

[/quote]
I have been trying to keep the volume down, and was hoping for a good result from the boost without the volume spike.[/quote]

When you say "good result", what do you mean? From what you've already said, I'll guess that you mean a fuller or fatter tone. If that's what you're after, then I'd recommend a graphic eq pedal. You don't need a fancy rack mounted 31- band extravaganza. A six or seven band one designed for guitar will do the trick quite nicely. Most of these type of pedals have a master gain slider, so your frequency boosts/cuts are relative to each other, and you have better control of the overall output. (Pedals that I know of that don't have a master slider include the Danelectro mini eq pedal, and the long-discontinued Boss GE6.) Hope that helps.

Later...

[Teleologist]

A lot depends on what's downstream of the boost. Most tube Fenders have the volume and tone controls after the first gain stage and single coil PUPs generally won't put out enough signal to drive the 1st stage very hard. This varies by amp though - a Twin Reverb has a lot more preamp headroom than a Tweed Deluxe or a Deluxe Reverb(TR & DR circuit & tube are the same, but the voltages are lower in the DR).

Working the first stage harder(via a boost) can make some amps sound fatter, but not always. IMO a BF/SF Fender sounds constipated with the vol set anywhere below 3 and if adding the boost means turning down the volume, it may sound thinner. Using too much boost to push the first gain stage hard into distortion can also mask power tube distortion - more so with the smaller 6V6 amps than the bigger cousins. Some people get the power tubes going by really cranking the amp and cutting down the signal to the first gain stage(via the guitar's volume control).

You also have to be careful with pedals loacted after the boost, especially any digital ones. These may have a limiter circuit to prevent hot signal spikes from clipping the A/D convertors.

[John E]

Originally Posted by Mike Rice

I just sold one of my Bad Bobs, too bad you weren't at the last jam where I had it for sale. I had been using 2 but convinced Robbie to build me a Double Barrell Boost with 2 Bad Bobs in one pedal. I can get everything from "clean boost" to saturated distortion by driving one unit with the other.

I was going to ask "why not keep the BD2 and get a boost pedal", but you addressed that issue. Good news; the Bad Bob is only $119 brand new. Built like a tank, true bypass, and I personally like it better than the SHO, much better than the Fat Boost. You can poke around, but mine was the first used pedal I'd ever seen adverstised, and that was only because Robbie built me that one-off pedal.

You can check it all out the next time you make a Hudson Valley Jam!

Hey Mike, well now I'm especially sorry I missed the last jam! I remember the last jam I was at trying the fatboost, and liking the SHO better... but it probably isn't a fair comparison. I do remember you A/B'ing the Bad bob and the SHO, though... they seemed very similar but the Bob had a little more sparkle which I liked about it. That Double sounds real interesting... Hey Robbie's a good guy and $119 is not to bad, I should probably just support our "local" builder and spring for a new one...

[Amos]

I use my clean boost the way Teleologist describes. There are times when I can't turn the amp up more than 3-4 when playing live. My boost pedal noticeably fattens up the tone at low volume levels.

[Mike Rice]

Originally Posted by John E

Hey Robbie's a good guy and $119 is not to bad, I should probably just support our "local" builder and spring for a new one...

I don't try to hide the fact that Robbie and I are good buds, but then again so are you and I John. I would never promote Robbie's stuff merely for the sake of supporting our hometown crowd and, trust me, I KNOW that's not what you were suggesting. Just wanna clarify for anyone else that may be reading this though

I tried countless boost and OD pedals about a year and a half ago in my quest for "the one". One thing I discovered, or perhaps confirmed, is that I just plain don't like OD pedals. Regardless of the price, pedigree, or manufacturer's claims, they all seem to just "fart" at you at lower gain settings and/or lower volumes. Most of them, particularly TS clones, also seem to compress the living daylights out of the signal, and I'm not a big comp guy either.

The SHO didn't excite me too much. It just didn't have the presence of the Bad Bob. I tired to find a used Super Duper 2 in 1 while Robbie was waiting for a lull to build my Double Barrell Boost, but ran into the same problem I hit with the SHO. IMHO those pedals are just too damn expensive! ZVex lovers don't beat me up, strictly a personal view!! I used Vince Caster's Fulltone Fat Boost for a while then bought my own, and might still be using that had the Bad Bob not been invented. But the Fat Boost is NOT a transparent boost. I'm of the opinion that anything with a tone control can't be. While the tone and input trim seemed useful at first (more knobs must be better, right?) after using the Bad Bob along with the Fat Boost I discovered that using the input trim (volume) and tone controls on my guitar was alot more convenient. So the fact that Robbie is one of our own and his pedal is the most reasonably priced is just icing on the cake for me. But try them all, I sure did and I'll even try new ones as they come along!

Teleologist!! Great to see you posting. You know how much I've always enjoyed what you've had to say. This is the gent that, years ago, got me a killer deal on a CS Donahue Tele that I covet to this day. And it's even crimson, not that silly 3 color sunburst! I probably decided about 25 years ago that you don't play Fender combos turned lower than 3. No understanding of the circuitry at all, they just don't have that characteristic Fender tone until you hit the magic 3. Even if I have to turn the guitar down, it still sounds better with the amp up a bit. Don't know if that makes sense, but it sure sounds that way to me!

[Tom P.]

Bottom line is, if you don't get the concept of boost pedals, or your personal style doesn't call for one, then you need not have one on your pedalboard. No one's forcing you.

My post wasn't meant as a slam on boost pedals. I'm sincerely trying to understand their uses and effect.
Lots of good info in this thread. I can see that they have several uses - "restoring" a signal that may have been diminished due to the use of several effects; as a stomp/volume boost for leads and to drive the preamp in a way that the vol knob won't.
I guess I'm just too tone def to notice the difference between the extra gain and extra vol. As Teleologist noted , maybe my turning the vol down diminished the desired effect.

[Tom P.]

Interesting idea on the Boss GE7 as a "boost". Do they add much hiss to the signal?

[Mike Rice]

Originally Posted by Tom P.

My post wasn't meant as a slam on boost pedals. I'm sincerely trying to understand their uses and effect.
Lots of good info in this thread. I can see that they have several uses - "restoring" a signal that may have been diminished due to the use of several effects; as a stomp/volume boost for leads and to drive the preamp in a way that the vol knob won't.
I guess I'm just too tone def to notice the difference between the extra gain and extra vol. As Teleologist noted , maybe my turning the vol down diminished the desired effect.

I'm not so sure I agree that if you don't get the concept then a boost isn't right for you, and I speak strictly from personal experience. Over the years I'll bet I've owned at least a dozen OD pedals, maybe even twice that number. But it wasn't until the Fall of 2002 that I began playing with boost pedals more seriously, and even then I didn't "get it" right away. Harken back to my comment about the Fat Boost and the logic that more knobs must be better. It doesn't sink in too quickly that a pedal with one knob could make a significant difference in your tone.

Personally I saw no malice whatsoever in your original post Tom. You came to the right place to shed the king's new clothes and just say "I don't get it". Maybe all of this will help, and you'll be able to say I get it now. And even then you may decide that a boost pedal is not for you. Like I said, I've done that with ODs. Other folks sound great with them...not me.

I love my boost pedals and I still got alot of great info from this thread. Wonderful discussion no matter how you slice it!