Everyone "sounds" the same

[Waynel]

"Old guys" remember when we first heard Clapton with Cream and his "woman tone" (just guitar and amp). We we're knocked out by what Hendrix could go with just a strat and a Marshall. How about how Angus Young coaxed that beautiful grit out of an SG? Love him or hate him, but no one could get that unique sound out of a Tele and a Fender amp like Keef Richards. It was "his sound." Question: Have we "pedaled" away the chance that anyone will step forward with a signature sound. Hey, if playing with pedals makes you happy, go for it. I'm just asking about the next great unique "sound." Where will it come from? For us old guys we just like playing and makin' a few bucks to do it. But what about the young guns. If they are all "pedaled up" and sounding the same, where is the next unique sound gonna come from?

My own 24 year-old son, who is one hell of guitar player is more concerned about sounding like Kirk Hammet than he is with sounding like himself, which he has no interest in finding. It's like reality TV. Everything sounds the same, it's just different people doing it. Jesus, I know I sound like the old fart I never wanted to be. But I just want to hear someone simply play a guitar and amp and make me know who they are after the first five notes. Too much to ask?

[F6_FullMelt]

I am 23, and have never owned a pedal. There are many, MANY, things I would like more than any sort of pedal.

[Martin R]

I know what you mean. I started playing in a cover band and had to get a Tele to sound like the opening of China Grove. Never came close.

But along the same time I heard Neil Young, Robbie Robertson and started listening to post-Sgt. Pepper Beatles, (especially Lennon). It's not that I wanted to sound like them, but knowing that stuff was out there gave me the freedom to not sound like everyone else.

Hook your son up with a songwriter or a band doing originals.

Martin
__________________________
E. Christina Herr & Wild Frontier

ps. one reason Jimi, Eric and Keef sounded like they did was because they played so f 'ing loud.

[Mik]

I heard/saw a covers country band at a bar last weekend.

The line dancers kicked it up all evening but the band, esp the two guitarists, sounded the same one recent or current country hit after another.

The gear: 2 Tele's, 2 Blues Jr amps and 2 Boss dominated pedal boards. Homogenous compressed Tele tones all evening.

[tweedtone]

Here's the thing: Once upon a time, Kirk Hammett wanted really, really bad to sound/play like Michael Schenker but after years and years (including lessons from Joe Satriani), what came out was...Kirk Hammett.

Substitue "Eric Clapton" and "Otis Rush" or "Jimi Hendrix" and "Buddy Guy" for Kirk and Michael and you will see a pattern emerge.

[tristanavakian]

I think most of the guys from that era had to dial up their own thing from scratch. (Brian May even made his own guitar.) Maybe that's why no two of them sound the same.

No modeling amps back then, thank god.

[manbearpig]

Hendrix definitely used pedals. Lots of great iconic guitarists with a signature sound have. SRV and the TS come to mind.

I know that wasn't really the point of what you were saying, but I'm just saying that I don't think that pedals are the culprit in and of themselves.

[Telenator]

I'll never understand "pedal hate." It's usually porported by those who just don't understand pedals. They are so useful (in moderation) that I'm astounded when players actually find reasons to dislike them.

I suppose if guitar players lived in a vacuum where the same old boring sound gets them through an entire night of gigging that a pedal-less world would be OK. But we live in a time of great sonic diversity and some play in cover bands where a HUGE variety of sounds are required to help capture some of the original vibe of certain songs. How can this possibly be a bad thing? Giving the audience a nice change up in sound from song to song.

Pedals are not appropriate for everything, but declaring yourself "pedal-less" as if it's some badage of honor is a pretty lame statement.

[1960 tele]

i like pedals, kinda like food i guess,the same thing gets flavorless after a bit

[Mik]

I too, don't think pedals in and of themselves are the culprits of SAME.

[JD0x0]

my tone is very unique. i dont use alot of pedals but the ones i do have sound pretty unique with exception of my dynacomp. even my wah doesnt sound like a wah, more like a phaser on an expression pedal

[callaway]

I think that saying someone can't sound unique just because they use some effect is ridiculous. It's exactly like saying someone can't sound unique because they use a tube amp... just an utterly ridiculous statement. Think of everyone that must have sounded the same playing Vox amps back in the mid 60's, and then there were the Beatles. It's not that guitar + amp = instant signature tone, but that everything you choose on down to how your fingers touch and attack the strings that creates people's signature tones.

Having said that, I do think that there is a tendency for less mature players to go crazy with effects and end up sounding rubbish.

[russpurdy]

FYI, Clapton recorded "Sunshine of your Love" through a wah-wah pedal pushed all the way forward with the tone rolled down on his guitar. Try it with a reissue crybaby, a good tube amp and a guitar with a bridge pickup tone control and you'll be pleasantly suprised.

I think pedals ARE the reason a lot of people get their unique tones. If everyone played guitars straight through amps then everyone playing a les paul through a marshall is going to have a similar "base tone". If one of these les paul through a marshall guys throws a booster in front of his/her amp, then all of a sudden you have a custom, tailored tone that is a little more unique. I play original music and almost always have a fuzz pedal running. My personal "unique" tone comes from a semi dirty amp with a SILICON (not germanium) fuzz face that I built with a mid boost knob. It is very similar to a fulltone 70's pedal. I have tried other fuzzes and use them occasionally but my personal tone requires that mid boosted fuzz. Thats my case for unique and personal tone out of a pedal. A couple other guys come to mind.....

Brian May - Treble Booster
Tom Morello - Whammy Pedal
Stevie Ray Vaughan - Tubescreamer
Hendrix - Fuzz Face, Univibe, Vox Wah
Kerry King - Seperate EQ
Jack White - Big Muff
Dan Auerbach - Big Muff
The Edge - Deluxe Memory Man
Anyone from Radiohead - Deluxe Memory Man
Mark Knopfler - Dan Armstrong Compressor (sultans of swing)
John Frusciante - Moogs, Various EHX stuff, Boss, and so on and so on
KT Tunstall - Akai Headrush
Yngwie Malmsteen - Preamp Boost
Eddie Van Halen - MXR Phaser and Flanger
Dimebag Darrel - Crybaby, Various MXR Stuff

and so on.....

I wouldn't say that every one of these pedals is totally essential to the musician creating sound but I know a lot of them would not sound the same without a few effects on their boards. Just my 2 cents.

[Yoni]

It's not always about the tone that makes you sound unique. I use a lot of pedals and make a lot of different sound. I don't think anyone sounds like me and one of the reasons is because of how I approach the instrument and the way I play the notes. I approach the instrument to sound like how I want to somewhere between Michael Hedges, Neil Young, Josh Hommes, Adam Jones and Isaac Brock. That's a lot of tinkering and messing around. Those pedals do all and none of those things. It's all in my head.

[superhand]

Originally Posted by Waynel

We we're knocked out by what Hendrix could go with just a strat and a Marshall.

Can you imagine "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) without a wah-wah? I can't. It wouldn't be the same song. Hendrix was a true innovator, and he used what was available to him at the time. If he was around in the 1700's he probably would have been rocking out on a harpsichord and making amazing music.

I think pedals are just another way of getting the sound that YOU want. Whether you want to sound like Kirk Hammet or whatever. Just like your choice in guitars, amps etc.

I do think that a lot of players young and old rely on there pedals too much and less on actual technique. That is one of the reasons beginners should start out on acoustic. Build up your technique, then dial in the sound you want, not the other way around.

[krauser2]

Originally Posted by Telenator

I'll never understand "pedal hate." It's usually porported by those who just don't understand pedals. They are so useful (in moderation) that I'm astounded when players actually find reasons to dislike them.

I suppose if guitar players lived in a vacuum where the same old boring sound gets them through an entire night of gigging that a pedal-less world would be OK. But we live in a time of great sonic diversity and some play in cover bands where a HUGE variety of sounds are required to help capture some of the original vibe of certain songs. How can this possibly be a bad thing? Giving the audience a nice change up in sound from song to song.

Pedals are not appropriate for everything, but declaring yourself "pedal-less" as if it's some badage of honor is a pretty lame statement.

EXACTLY.....seriously some of these guys got their tone from running a 100watt marshall full steam. Yeah it can be duplicated but geez not everyone can run a tube amp to gritty town and back.....hell even 10 watt tube amps are too loud for home when you crank em.


Just because you or some people you hear with pedals suck doesnt mean they are useless. Just look at all the cool sounds people are getting. I've got 8 pedals on a board (maxed out) and they variety of stuff is awesome. In fact I thinks its the best way to come up with unique sounds on the fly.

so I too will never understand the whole pedal hate. SRV wouldnt have his tone without the PEDALS he used, FYI

[wunderaj]

i may be new to this forum and very young but heres my opinion anywhoo a truly great guitarist shouldn't need pedals to sound great that's just like buying the most expensive guitar even though you cant play worth a lick. ive been playing for 10 yeras now with jsut a small amp and a mij tele, and a squier strat and im perfectly happy with what ive been able to write and i like and other like how i sound and think i sound unique. a truly great singer/songwriter once said a truly great song or musicians should sound great plugged and unplugged. if you rely too heavily on the pedals you will forget what true guitar sounds are and be lsot in all the effects. but then again IMHO none of the musicians around today besides the ones still playing from the 70's like petty and the boss are worth listening to. pure crap that's what today's music is but that's my $00.02

[F6_FullMelt]

Originally Posted by Telenator

I'll never understand "pedal hate." It's usually porported by those who just don't understand pedals. They are so useful (in moderation) that I'm astounded when players actually find reasons to dislike them...

I apologize if the message (there wasn't meant really to be one) I put across with my first post was misunderstood. I have no hate for pedals, and I totally understand how they could come in handy. I appreciate just about any noise that can be lulled out of a guitar, and I couldn't tell you who is playing straight to an amp on what guitar, so I certainly did not want to put myself across as some sort of pure amp tone snob or something. What I meant by there being many things I would get before I ever got a pedal, well its true. I would start with a real Fender, an amp that doesn't suck, the list goes on. If I want wild sounds, plugging into my computer gets my rocks off for now - I am not a gigging musician. I will play my tele for weeks often without even plugging it in. Pedals are simply not part of my world, I am somebody who just does not understand them

[krauser2]

Originally Posted by F6_FullMelt

I apologize if the message (there wasn't meant really to be one) I put across with my first post was misunderstood. I have no hate for pedals, and I totally understand how they could come in handy. I appreciate just about any noise that can be lulled out of a guitar, and I couldn't tell you who is playing straight to an amp on what guitar, so I certainly did not want to put myself across as some sort of pure amp tone snob or something. What I meant by there being many things I would get before I ever got a pedal, well its true. I would start with a real Fender, an amp that doesn't suck, the list goes on. If I want wild sounds, plugging into my computer gets my rocks off for now - I am not a gigging musician. I will play my tele for weeks often without even plugging it in. Pedals are simply not part of my world, I am somebody who just does not understand them

I'll let you borrow my board for a week....you'll understand them then.

Like you just mentioned about buying a quality guitar, I only buy quality pedals. Its an instrument in a sense, when you find out how to truly use them effectively.

Moderation is key, setup is key, quality is key. I will only have 8 pedals at a time and 2 of the 8 are a tuner and sonic stomp. so only 6 left and 2 of those are delay/looper. so that leaves 4 for sexy tone shaping.

I still go through the amp without any effect, ESPECIALLY when I'm honing my technique and learning.

sorry for the rant, there are plenty of folks that know how to use them and make some sexy noise but don't let the 95% that don't give us a bad name.

[JosephB]

Originally Posted by wunderaj

IMHO none of the musicians around today besides the ones still playing from the 70's like petty and the boss are worth listening to. pure crap that's what today's music is but that's my $00.02

i'm sorry man, but i take real offense to that statement. I used to think like you, set in the ways of classic rock, but now I think there are plenty of awesome bands out there today...looking at my most recently played list on itunes i see:

monsters of folk, the black crowes, bon iver, dr. dog, my morning jacket, m.ward, akron/family, avett brothers, wilco, the wood brothers and alberta cross

theyre all new bands, they all have their different sounds...a lot of them truly unique, and most importantly theyre all wonderful musicians. just because people are from a certain time period doesnt make them better or worse...there will always be a faction of musicians who are keeping the good stuff alive. sometimes you have to look a little harder because they may not be in todays top 40 charts, but theyre always there.

p.s. if you havent listened to any of the above bands i'd suggest checking some of them out...my morning jacket in particular because they are an awesomely unique rock band.

[Yoni]

Originally Posted by wunderaj

. but then again IMHO none of the musicians around today besides the ones still playing from the 70's like petty and the boss are worth listening to. pure crap that's what today's music is but that's my $00.02

sorry but your opinion isn't worth that much.

[morroben]

Originally Posted by wunderaj

a truly great guitarist shouldn't need pedals to sound great

And painters shouldn't use colors...the great ones could do it with black and white.
And what's with actors these days? Silent movies were where the talent was.

[czech-one-2]

Do you really think every guitar player is going to have a unique,never before accomplished bag of tricks and an instantly identifiable tone unlike anyone else on earth? If a pedal helps you to feel like you sound unique or makes you play something you wouldnt have without it then bring it on.We're all thieves,even your guitar heroes,and the early blues cats should get the credit.
That being said, its a noble endeaver just to make a room full of people dance or forget about their personal trials and mundane 9-5's for a couple hours,even if your not changing the course of musical history

[jjkrause84]

Several points:

A) You seem to be comparing the greats of yesterday with the mediocres of today (that is not in any way meant to be a slight on your son). I'm sure if you went back 40 years you would find MOST local musicians sounded pretty darned similar. Heck, think of surf music or reggae. Both suffer from being such a narrowly defined genre that you can't really be considered part of either one unless you sound more or less like every one else that came before you.

B) Tom Morello. Need I say more?

C) The Edge. I can't stand U2 but let's face it....you know instantly when you're listening to him

D) Bill Frisell? Maybe a stretch as he's getting on in years but still....

E) I play mostly a Gretsch through an AC15. What do I sound like? Well, for the most part I sound like a guy playing a Gretsch through an AC15. Still, a lot of what you're getting at in terms of "sound" (as opopsed to "tone") has to do with actually what is being played. I will not sound like someone else even if they used MY rig. What more can a guy ask for?

[xjazzy]

Some more:

-John Scofield.
-Zakk Wylde.

You could say Jim Campilongo as a lot to do with Buchanon but he has his own voice, that's specially on his phrasing.
So, a "unique sound" as a lot more to do with other things than just amp or pedals...

[ruger9]

"pedal haters"... yeah, pedals suck man. Actually, why does everybody use an AMP?!?! I mean, what's up with that? All the new electric guitarists want to sound like their heroes so they play electric guitars THRU AMPS...

Come to think of it, why the electric anyway?! Wasn't the ACOUSTIC "cool enough" for you?!?! You had to go and get an ELECTRIC so you could sound like evrybody else?

Personally, why anyone thought the round-backed LUTE needed improved upon, is beyond me...

:)

[barkley]

Who cares about sounding unique?

I care about sounding good.

Its what I write that I hope to be unique

[Durtdog]

Woah, buncha sensitive types.

Take it easy fellas, they're just pedals, this is just the internet. No need to get "offended".

[studio1087]

I think that you should be blaming guitarists with poor equipment skills and not the equipment.

Guitar Center has 200 pedals and 75 amps and 300 guitars. On a Saturday morning, most everyone at Guitar Center sounds the same. Fuzzy Fizzy metal players.

[Telenator]

F6_FullMelt and Waynel, I didn't mean to turn this into "hate for non-pedal users." I'm just an older guy who went on a little rant and perhaps stated my case a little strongly. You guys of course have valid opinions and stand behind the things that work for you.

At the end of the day, if you played your guitar and made sounds that you really dig, then your approach is the best way there is. After all, this is about enjoyment.

Enjoy!

[barkley]

Pedals dont kill tone, people kill people. err... tone ;)

[guitarzan13]

NM....

I use several pedals and I sound like......ME! I think the OP might be trolling....IMHO

[popthree]

are pedals new ? lol

[emarsupial]

Just my humble opinion here, but I believe that player's unique sound comes from their fingers and their heart, not their gear.

Pedals are just accessories that enhance the activity of making music - in the same way that golfers accessorize with their clubs, shoes, golf bags, balls, etc... or hockey players with their pads, skates, sticks, etc... All of that stuff can enhance the player's experience but they won't make a great player terrible and they won't make a terrible player great.

Whether you love pedals or not, to each his own, right?

cheers,
ew

[tristanavakian]

As a previous poster noted, many of the early golden age rock guitarists used pedals to help sculpt an individual sound. It's nothing new.

I recently discovered treble boosters, which were an integral part of many setups at the time. The Dallas Rangemaster in particular didn't even have an on/off switch, it was just on all the time.

Basically it saturates your amp. It leaves the character of your guitar and your finger tone intact. And fully utilizes power amp tube distortion. Turn down to clean up, turn up to wail. That's all.

I highly recommend one to anyone seeking classic rock sounds. Using different guitar and amp combinations (tube only please), Clapton, Blackmore and May will spring to mind instantly. Just make sure to wear your earplugs. It's gonna get loud.

Page on Zeppelin One comes to mind as well. If you think a Tele straight into a Supro sounds like that, you're kidding yourself. I have both, and it don't happen. I suspect a Rangemaster, and a Tonebender in spots as well.

[bradpdx]

Pedals are as natural as the rest of the system.

Electric guitars are contrivances from beginning to end, initially crude attempts to amplify acoustics that went terribly "wrong" because it instead evolved into other sounds completely.

You think amp distortion is "natural"? You're kidding - that was NOT the intent of the early designers of gear (Fender, Gibson, Seth Lover, etc.). They were just using the affordable technology of the day to make what were essentially big table radios without tuners. The "magic of tubes" was simply what they had to work with. They most certainly did not intend the amps to be used for distorted tones.

Consider this: had history gone a little differently and the transistor worked out prior to the vacuum tube (not too far fetched) then all the early guitar amps would have been solid state and we probably wouldn't think of a cranked up amp as a "classic sound". Clean would have been king, because dirty would be unmusical.

What we consider a "classic sound" is just an accident of history. Pedals are just a logical extension of this system, to be used for purposes as musical, horrible, stupid or brilliant as the player chooses.

[Tonemonkey]

Edited List:

Originally Posted by russpurdy

Brian May - Marks and Spencers Cut Briefs
Stevie Ray Vaughan - Versace Gold Pouch
Hendrix - Commando
The Edge - Fruit of the Loom
Anyone from Radiohead - KayMart 5 for $3 Mega Pak
Mark Knopfler - British Home Stores Airtex Pants
John Frusciante - Retro Grundy's
KT Tunstall - Gap
Yngwie Malmsteen - Victoria's Secret
Eddie Van Halen - Calvin Klein
Dimebag Darrel - Unidentified
and so on.....

You want their tone, you gonna need their grots, Not their pedals

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by xjazzy

You could say Jim Campilongo as a lot to do with Buchanon but he has his own voice, that's specially on his phrasing.
So, a "unique sound" as a lot more to do with other things than just amp or pedals...

And most folks don't realize that Jim used a Klon Centaur on Loose. More at the producer's insistence (good call, IMO) but if Jim really didn't need it, he would have insisted on not using it.

Yeah - rock without wah wah, funk/reggae/etc. without an envelope filter, stuff like Pink Floyd without delay, country without comp, anything old school that requires a fuzz, octave fuzz, ring modulation. These things all add to a person's individual "voice" especially within the genre(s) that they play.

[erksin]

Originally Posted by Waynel

"Old guys" remember when we first heard Clapton with Cream and his "woman tone" (just guitar and amp). We we're knocked out by what Hendrix could go with just a strat and a Marshall. How about how Angus Young coaxed that beautiful grit out of an SG? Love him or hate him, but no one could get that unique sound out of a Tele and a Fender amp like Keef Richards. It was "his sound." Question: Have we "pedaled" away the chance that anyone will step forward with a signature sound. Hey, if playing with pedals makes you happy, go for it. I'm just asking about the next great unique "sound." Where will it come from? For us old guys we just like playing and makin' a few bucks to do it. But what about the young guns. If they are all "pedaled up" and sounding the same, where is the next unique sound gonna come from?

My own 24 year-old son, who is one hell of guitar player is more concerned about sounding like Kirk Hammet than he is with sounding like himself, which he has no interest in finding. It's like reality TV. Everything sounds the same, it's just different people doing it. Jesus, I know I sound like the old fart I never wanted to be. But I just want to hear someone simply play a guitar and amp and make me know who they are after the first five notes. Too much to ask?

No offense, but I think your attitude is rather condescending. Everybody has to start somewhere, and if being into Hammett is your kids' ticket into playing guitar then why give him a hard time about it? Maybe he just enjoys the playing - what's wrong with that?

It's not the fault of a pedal if somebody can't find their own voice. They are just tools to achieve a sonic result, like using a different chisel to shape the stone.

And for the record - that woman tone was through a Fuzz Face.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Waynel

Clapton

Hendrix

Angus Young

Keef Richards

...sounding like Kirk Hammet

Clapton used a Rangemaster treble boost and a wah.

Hendrix used fuzz, octave fuzz, wah, rotovibe, and TONS of effects and tricks in the studio - "reel rub flange," echo tricks, crazy panning.

Angus - no effects, but there's a lot of delay and such on the studio stuff. Just because Angus wasn't stomping on something doesn't mean that he had a totally dry tone. And trying to replicate that today w/o getting thrown out of the club or having the cops show up? I'd like to hear someone try. Do you want your son cranking a JTM45 or bigger up to 10 in his room?

Which brings me to Kirk Hammet. It's easy to trash on him because he's a metal guy, but he has his own voice, as well. Maybe not to someone who doesn't dig the genre, but for people who do, they'll tell you that Kirk stands out. And oftentimes he's just using a wah into a cranked amp, just like the old dogs. There's a lot of blues/pentatonic phrasing in his style, as well. And he's really melded it with the heavier style of music, adding dynamics and precision where it is really needed. If you bothered to listen to Kirk, you'd hear some Clapton, Hendrix, Angus, and other guys in his playing - as they are all his heroes. Kirk isn't that much younger than you, but thank goodness he has a more open minded attitude (people always assume that the metal guys are cavemen). Like it or not, Metallica has a seat in the history of rock music. And without Kirk, they wouldn't have earned it.

Almost every guitarist that I know goes through phases where they want to sound like a certain hero, or cop stuff from a certain genre. Their own voice will come, even as a consequence of trying to ape someone else, because they are not a clone of their hero.

Effects are just tools. No more, no less. There's no need to overly focus on gear when it comes to this touchy subject, IMO.