Everyone "sounds" the same

[davidge1]

I think it's going to be much less likely that we're going to see very unique sounding rock guitar players in the future (or country players, or any other genre), but not because of effects. The reason is that the form – the sound, the style – has already been created. When it was all new, it was inevitable that there would be many new sounds and unique sounding players as people started to explore what was possible. Kirk Hammett is far from a young player... Metalica has been around for 25 years.

Young rock guitar players aren't going to try to re-invent the wheel. Naturally, they're going to copy the guitar players that created the style. There's pretty much no other way to go... if the style changed too much from what's already been done, it wouldn't be "rock" anymore.

[AngryEL34s]

I'm a big fan of pedals, but I've lately been trying to steer away from them as much as possible. Not for the sake of any kind of cool "guitar-into-amp" cache, but more because I commute via transit and I want the smallest possible board to carry around.

I own tons of pedals, and I've bought and sold tons more. I think they're handy tools. Just like you wouldn't necessarily own one guitar, because you want to be able to access other sounds, you need some pedals for flexibility.

Right now I'm running my guitar into a TU-2>Tone Press>OCD>DM-3>SolidGoldFX NOB and then into the amp. And I'm toying with the idea of dropping the Tone Press too.

It's the judicious use of pedals that's more important than whether or not pedals are sucking away creativity or tone-finding. When I see a board like John Frusciante's, I can't help but wonder what the point is. I love Frusciante, and he certainly has a tone of his own (which I also love), but his pedal boards are ridiculous.

As mentioned, not all of us can crank our tube amps. Even with an attentuator, my 30 watt JTM45 is still REALLY loud when I turn it up halfway. Pedals give us a way of hearing what a song or riff might sound like when played at concert levels without risk of eviction. Again, they're tools that need to be used in a certain way to reach a certain result.

[FenderLover]

I never understood the guys who just "plug in". I do that ocassionally too, but there are LOTS of guys who sound the same 'just plugged in". That's one sound, what do they do after that? For original work that's fine, but it sounds a little off in a cover band.

[Headshot]

Originally Posted by ruger9

"pedal haters"... yeah, pedals suck man. Actually, why does everybody use an AMP?!?! I mean, what's up with that? All the new electric guitarists want to sound like their heroes so they play electric guitars THRU AMPS...

Come to think of it, why the electric anyway?! Wasn't the ACOUSTIC "cool enough" for you?!?! You had to go and get an ELECTRIC so you could sound like evrybody else?

Personally, why anyone thought the round-backed LUTE needed improved upon, is beyond me...

:)

a round-backed lute? Where did you come up with that one? I was laughing and almost spilled diet pepsi on my keyboard.....besides, a round-backed lute might sound pretty awesome through a tubescreamer with some reverb and a wah pedal.....

[golfnut]

Originally Posted by FenderLover

I never understood the guys who just "plug in". I do that ocassionally too, but there are LOTS of guys who sound the same 'just plugged in". That's one sound, what do they do after that? For original work that's fine, but it sounds a little off in a cover band.

There are some that plug straight in because that is there style and sound. There are some that do it like its a badge of honor and think any one that uses pedals is a hacker. Myself I find it hard to think anyone could be successful just plugging straight in while in a cover band unless your covering one style strictly where it would work.
I play in 2 different bands on a regular basis and fill in for many other bands. I keep my pedal board pretty basic. 2 overdrives (3 channels) a chorus (I hardly ever use) an analog delay and a compressor (also hardly ever use) I also sometimes carry a reverb tank.
I find that I'm limited in certain things I could do, but I successfully get by with what I have. When I used to use multi processor effects units I could do just about anything but I've since adopted a simpler way of life.
I'm a minimalist but I don't think I'll ever be a straight in the amp guy.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by davidge1

I think it's going to be much less likely that we're going to see very unique sounding rock guitar players in the future (or country players, or any other genre), but not because of effects. The reason is that the form – the sound, the style – has already been created.

If this perception is held in the strictest regard, it's a bit depressing for me, personally.

There will always be room, IMO for pioneers to come along, introduce us to another way of doing it, incorporating elements from other genres, or just musicians that really have a different slant from the vast majority.

Rock (or country, or _____) are simply not as caveman as we like to reduce them to. While you certainly have the stacks on 10/3 chord progression thing with rock, there's a ton of other stuff as well.

Rock has evolved with every decade. Funny that Metallica is mentioned, as they were keeping the rock flame alive during the 80's, when the trend was towards synths, dance beats, a ton of studio processing, etc...

...In the 90's, it was taken more down to earth again, and it was acceptable to make noise, even incorporate it into the style. And it was cool IMO to see old pedals make a resurgence, and quite a bit of the rack stuff disappear. It was also the birth of the "boutique" pedal thing - I don't think that too many Fulltone 69's or Klon Centaurs would have sold in the 80's!

...And in the new millennium, rock is being fused with all sorts of stuff that it simply wasn't at any time previously. For new rockers, there's nothing incredibly odd about adding urban textures, reggae textures, soft passages, or writing a 2 minute song, or a 15 minute song. Granted, you may have to pick around a lot of chaff before you hit on something that might strike your fancy, but neither stagnation or utter entropy truly exist, IMO.

But getting back on topic - tools like effects are great, because they provide other opportunities for guitarists to explore and create, and are no less valid than doing the equivalent by practicing, learning to read sheet music, exploring the roots of different genres, or anything else in between.

[czech-one-2]

Well,i deleted my previous post in favor of this gentleman.
Everybody sounds the same?

[Jim Campilongo]

I think stomp boxes are superfluous in the context of creating "style"...

Obviously an artists style is a culmination of their influences and choices ... a guitarist who studies Wes Montgomery will speak in a different vocabulary then a guitarist who studies Hendrix, Pete Townsend or Chet Atkins.

The disappointing end result for me as a listener - is when I hear a person speaking "in the exact voice" of their mentor. It's simply mimicry.

Don't get me wrong, if a player hears Stevie Ray Vaughn in their head, and is totally pleased with a performance in the style of their hero, I don't begrudge the individual the satisfaction they might feel. I might even admire their accomplishments and find them a person who is obsessed with detail, discriminating in taste and intelligent enough to tell a story - but I don't know if I would buy their record.

Personally, I need more real intimacy with the individual I'm listening to.

I want to hear the unique expressive voice that can articulate the multitude of life experiences the player ultimately embodies in their own music. By hearing the infinite choices of the player such as dynamics, tone, note choice I can "get to know them". This might include the musical influences of the player I "agree" with. Choices I find palatable enough to internalize.

Obviously we all can't reinvent the wheel every time we play, whether it's casually or professionally... but to attribute a lack of style to any "one thing" such as stomp boxes verses plugging straight in, seems overly narrow.

In the worse case scenario stomp boxes are a distraction from doing the hard work of introspection and practice that can allow the artist to present their own personal point of view.... But so can learning solos note for note, then using these phrases as sentences that never wander away from the beaten path of the "accepted" precedent of guitar history.

[Groovey Records]

This should run in the NY TIMES Op Ed Column.

If your in NYC on a Monday night make sure you get down to "The Living Room" on Ludlow Street to hear this man play.

He's the Genuine Article.

Originally Posted by Jim Campilongo

I think stomp boxes are superfluous in the context of creating "style"...

Obviously an artists style is a culmination of their influences and choices ... a guitarist who studies Wes Montgomery will speak in a different vocabulary then a guitarist who studies Hendrix, Pete Townsend or Chet Atkins.

The disappointing end result for me as a listener - is when I hear a person speaking "in the exact voice" of their mentor. It's simply mimicry.

Don't get me wrong, if a player hears Stevie Ray Vaughn in his head, and is totally pleased with a performance in the style of his hero, I don't begrudge that person the satisfaction they might feel. I might even admire their accomplishments and find them a person who is obsessed with detail, discriminating in taste and intelligent - but I don't know if I would buy their record.

Personally, I need more real intimacy with the individual I'm listening to.

I want to hear the unique expressive voice that can articulate the multitude of life experiences the player ultimately embodies in their own music. By hearing the infinite choices of the player such as dynamics, tone, note choice I can "get to know them". This might include the musical influences of the player I "agree" with. Choices I find palatable enough to internalize.

Obviously we all can't reinvent the wheel every time we play, whether it's casually or professionally... but to attribute a lack of style to any "one thing" such as stomp boxes verses plugging straight in, seems overly narrow.

In the worse case scenario stomp boxes are a distraction from doing the hard work of introspection and practice that can allow the artist to present their own personal point of view.... But so can learning solo's note for note, and never wandering away from the beaten path of the "accepted" precedent of guitar history.

[Waynel]

Originally Posted by Jim Campilongo

I think stomp boxes are superfluous in the context of creating "style"...

Obviously an artists style is a culmination of their influences and choices ... a guitarist who studies Wes Montgomery will speak in a different vocabulary then a guitarist who studies Hendrix, Pete Townsend or Chet Atkins.

The disappointing end result for me as a listener - is when I hear a person speaking "in the exact voice" of their mentor. It's simply mimicry.

Don't get me wrong, if a player hears Stevie Ray Vaughn in their head, and is totally pleased with a performance in the style of their hero, I don't begrudge the individual the satisfaction they might feel. I might even admire their accomplishments and find them a person who is obsessed with detail, discriminating in taste and intelligent enough to tell a story - but I don't know if I would buy their record.

Personally, I need more real intimacy with the individual I'm listening to.

I want to hear the unique expressive voice that can articulate the multitude of life experiences the player ultimately embodies in their own music. By hearing the infinite choices of the player such as dynamics, tone, note choice I can "get to know them". This might include the musical influences of the player I "agree" with. Choices I find palatable enough to internalize.

Obviously we all can't reinvent the wheel every time we play, whether it's casually or professionally... but to attribute a lack of style to any "one thing" such as stomp boxes verses plugging straight in, seems overly narrow.

In the worse case scenario stomp boxes are a distraction from doing the hard work of introspection and practice that can allow the artist to present their own personal point of view.... But so can learning solos note for note, then using these phrases as sentences that never wander away from the beaten path of the "accepted" precedent of guitar history.

Thanks. You evidently took a moment to read my original post instead of following the daisy chain of degeneration these threads usually go through. You eloquently articulated the point I was trying to make. I own 3 pedals and will use them. Don't hate pedals, don't hate metal, don't hate Jimi for using a pedal. I only asked this because after a weekend trip to New Olreans French Quarter, watching about 4 bands over two nights...I asked my wife how she liked the guitar players. She said (her words) "You know they were all good, but they all sounded the same." She said that as you stated "as a listener" not a musician. Sorry if heads exploded because of my thread. I thought it was an innocent enough question.

[Jim Campilongo]

Honestly, I didn't notice any negativity and many good perspectives were written.
I actually enjoyed the topic enough to think about it & write way too much ...
Thanks... and long live the TDPRI!

[surfco]

Al Di Meola.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Waynel

Thanks. You evidently took a moment to read my original post instead of following the daisy chain of degeneration these threads usually go through.

[Cheesehead]

Originally Posted by erksin

And for the record - that woman tone was through a Fuzz Face.

Really?

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyl...ptons-classic/

[Cheesehead]

I don't know if it's pedals that are to blame, but I sort of agree with the original poster's thought. That a lot of today's guitarists sound a like.

I went and saw Vallejo this summer - a band I really like by the way. The guitarists both played PRS guitars through high gain amps. The high gain tone struck me as really generic. And I thought the guitarists we're really good, but their playing style didn't stand out to me as anything really unique or original. I couldn't pick them out of a crowd like I could Hendrix or Clapton or Keith Richards. They sounded like a lot of other new bands out there. (And I am exposed to a lot of them because my son listens to a ton of new bands...)

IMHO...

[Groovey Records]

Originally Posted by erksin

And for the record - that woman tone was through a Fuzz Face.

No not really For the original Blues Breaker's version

Marshall 2x12 40 watt combo dimed with pre Rolla Green Backs Tone knob rolled back

[bluetele54]

...I could always hear David T. Walker,Cornell Dupree,Eric Gale,B.B.,Buddy,Otis,Roy,etc.,but I was intimate with their sound from listening to the music that inspired me,but they were pretty unique,pedals or not...

...nod to Jim...

...if I had my druthers,I just plug my '54 or '63 into my Budda,and let my ears,compositional sense and fingers be my guide...

...I've got two boards,one large with some iconic pedals purchased when new in the '70's,and a smaller one that has some current "boo-teak" pedals that suits me just fine...

[Will Chen]

The vast majority of guitar players from any given period sounded the same as guitarists as a whole tend to hero worship a bit.

As alluded to already in this thread, one only need to hear 5 seconds of a John Scofield tune and you know it's him. He uses a rat into an AC30 (along with a Whammy, Ibanez chorus and a bunch of other stuff). Given the relatively simplistic setup, you would think there would be a million cats who could cop his tone but I haven't heard anyone get close.

Check out Matthew Bellamy (Muse) outta space crazy tones, he's got a Kaoss pad built into his guitar. No one sounds like him.

Effects are like anything else. It's not their mere presence but how their used which makes them unique.

[Jellyroll]

Me likey pedals. Tone is in the ears. Thank dog we all have different ones. As far as unique tone is concerned, it really has all been done before. Wes Montgomery, Hubert Sumlin, Jimi, Yardbirds, Zappa, Luther Perkins, Chuck Berry, Dennis Coffey, that bloke in the Isley bros, Barrett, Gilmour, punk rock, Sonic Youth, Glenn Branca, Blixa Bargeld, Radiohead, Paul Leary, guitar synths, guitars into computers, hell, Ben Vaughn recording a whole album in his car!! I know I left out tons of original examples, but you get the point. Original tone does not really exist anymore. I find it important to keep looking for it, but if you can think of it, it has been done. That said, I still look for it, but I think original playing is more important, though just as difficult. I also believe we should be happy about the different sonic pallettes we all choose. If you think pedals sound bad don't use them. It will give you the edge on gettin a unique tone with guitar straight to amp. I love pedals, and would eventually get very bored goin straight into an amp. I am happy others don't like them, that way we can all sound a little different.

[cletus]

The flip side of not using pedals and going straight into the amp is ----we would all sound the same. Go figure.

cletus

[Fogboundturtle]

the truth is that if the technology was available to theses artist back then, they would have used it.

[bluetele54]

Originally Posted by cletus

The flip side of not using pedals and going straight into the amp is ----we would all sound the same. Go figure.

cletus

...we wouldn't...

[11 Gauge]

What's interesting to me at this point is that there are now 63 posts in this thread. What else is there to say? And why use a stompbox forum to forward a commentary, as opposed to actually hoping to get some advice, thoughts, reflection, anything!

The edge of the axe has been finely ground to razor precision at this point.

[scoots]

i have a twist on this. i have an me-50 with a reverse delay effect on it. i can use this to somewhat mimic steel guitar swells. i use it for background fills and for leads and as far as i know, i'm the only person i know to use one of these like this. maybe original use of an effect but not originality of a sound. the stuff we're doing is going from skynrd to hank sr and the only other two sounds i'm running(besides my steel thing) is a cleanish jangly sound and an overdrive with some delay. i prefer a more traditional(?) sound and i don't run alot of effects, but i like the ones i do run. for sounding "different", there is no substiute for good ol' fashioned time on a fretboard though...

[russpurdy]

Originally Posted by JosephB

i'm sorry man, but i take real offense to that statement. I used to think like you, set in the ways of classic rock, but now I think there are plenty of awesome bands out there today...looking at my most recently played list on itunes i see:

monsters of folk, the black crowes, bon iver, dr. dog, my morning jacket, m.ward, akron/family, avett brothers, wilco, the wood brothers and alberta cross

theyre all new bands, they all have their different sounds...a lot of them truly unique, and most importantly theyre all wonderful musicians. just because people are from a certain time period doesnt make them better or worse...there will always be a faction of musicians who are keeping the good stuff alive. sometimes you have to look a little harder because they may not be in todays top 40 charts, but theyre always there.

p.s. if you havent listened to any of the above bands i'd suggest checking some of them out...my morning jacket in particular because they are an awesomely unique rock band.

YES! Glad to see another Monsters of Folk fan. You can look at it as a modern day rip off of the travelling wilbury's (or strawberry fields era beatles depending on what song you listen to) if you want but the way they mangle and reshape classic songform is fantastic.

[erksin]

Originally Posted by Groovey Records

No not really For the original Blues Breaker's version

Marshall 2x12 40 watt combo dimed with pre Rolla Green Backs Tone knob rolled back

I don't hear 'woman tone' on the Beano album.

[koen]

Last night we had practice, and all I used for a change was a tuner pedal and an A/B switch pedal to select my amp channel. What a sound!!

[AngryEL34s]

Originally Posted by Waynel

I only asked this because after a weekend trip to New Olreans French Quarter, watching about 4 bands over two nights...I asked my wife how she liked the guitar players. She said (her words) "You know they were all good, but they all sounded the same." She said that as you stated "as a listener" not a musician. Sorry if heads exploded because of my thread. I thought it was an innocent enough question.

Y'know, there could be lots of reasons for this other than the use of pedals. I'm guessing all the bands shared the same PA and sound tech, that's a huge part of it. If all the bands were playing songs in a similar genre, that would be another. Then there's gear (guitars, amps, etc.).

Maybe what your wife heard was a few guitarists playing music in the same genre, and it would make sense that they sound similar to the casual observer.

Also, there's some guitarists who just plain don't care how they sound, and that has nothing to do with pedals limiting their tonal search, because that never existed for them. That doesn't mean they don't have chops, but they aren't as devoted to micro-managing their tone. I've met several who could play circles around me, but all sounded like complete fizzy-AM-radio crap.

[Al Watsky]

I think lots of people have individual sounds.
Many people can't help sounding like themselves.
I count myself in that number.
For the most part I use effects when I play electric.
I still sound like me.
It takes years to have a personal approach.
The scene I came up in pretty much demanded that you have your own sound
or you got no respect.
These days its all about the freshest face , lot of those fresh faces haven't been around long enough to have a musical personality. They sound like whoever they copped their licks from. Individuality comes later.
Pretty much like the classical scene. Pedagogy is so good these days, training is so focused on technique that there are lots of 15 year old kids that can play Paganini Caprices flawlessly.
Youtube is filled with performances that are just about perfect.
Soulless exercises, punctuated by posing and mock grandeur.
If you select a clip from a seasoned performer you find, more detail, more personality, a tone, phrasing ,depth of intent , shading , essentially a life's work boiled down to a 3 minute , musical statement.
The electric guitar has similar problems. Lots of players , little time . Too much attention paid to people who need more seasoning.
The glorification of the mediocre.

[Groovey Records]

Originally Posted by erksin

I don't hear 'woman tone' on the Beano album.

Keep coming back !

It's there in the mix in its genesis

[JosephB]

Originally Posted by russpurdy

YES! Glad to see another Monsters of Folk fan. You can look at it as a modern day rip off of the travelling wilbury's (or strawberry fields era beatles depending on what song you listen to) if you want but the way they mangle and reshape classic songform is fantastic.

im going to see them november 11th in atlanta @ the tabernacle. i bought my ticket already and since i live in alabama itll be a hike, but i am so ready for it !!

not a slight to you...because i thought it too...but i just read that they HATE the traveling wilburys reference. not really sure why because id be honored to be compared to them...rock stars

[3 Chord]

My tone is kind of like others but my I make so many mistakes I think I have a signature sound.

..."The line dancers kicked it up all evening but the band,..."

Well, really that is all that matters. Selling beer and getting people to dance is the primary duty of the house band. Sounds like they nailed what the crowd was after.

Country audiences "expect" a certain range of sounds and style of play. Always have. Rock folks are a little more tolerant and let us drive into the ditches now and then, but as Alabama said "if you want to play in Texas, you better have a fiddle in the band" is so true. Let's not forget Nashville didn't want to record some of our greatest founding fathers.

Maybe the two guitarists go home and play vintage bassmans with vintage strats but when they play the line dance gig, the squish it up because it works.

[CLAZ]

i think a pickers playing technique will outshine (override) any pedal or amp or guitar for that matter (to a point of course).

I think the ear and or knowledge of the listener has alot to do with it as well... example: I can watch guys switch out at a blues jam...same amp, same guitar , and sound totally different....to MY ears...but i know what to listen for..at least I think i do

so i think what is missing today..by some..not all...is the "old school" approach of mastering technique, choosing notes and or licks that mean something personal to you (yeah i said it ) , you know the rest


to me some of the most recognizable tones in the whole world are pretty simple rigs....

Satana
SRV
Slash
Hendrix (to me a wah, dirt box, and modulation box is pretty simple)
Angus Young of Ac/Dc

seems to me the best way to get a signature tone is to keep it simple stupid

now a sideman for a cover act or a studio player is another story.... and guys like the ones mentioned above would not like or last (by there decision) in these environments IMO...

thats my take..

[tazzboy]

My take is your not going to sound like anybody else other then yourself. You ain't going to sound like Clapton, Santana, Via, Slash, Hendrix etc. there is only one of them and one of you.

[jmwjjmwj]

I don't know if 'everyone' sounds the same but, if amateur guitarists on the internet are any indication, wwwaaayyy too many people try to sound like SRV.

I'm gonna flamed for this- I just now it. A lot of people consider his style and tone to be some kind of holy grail. For me, I can't listen to more than a song or two before I'm tired of it . And I cringe every time I hear some guy with a strat and TS9 playing Texas blues licks online or in a club.

My heros were guys like Page, Beck, Gilmour, etc. I tried to learn every lick they did when I was young but it never occured to me to want to sound like them. That said, I'm sure I sound like someone - I doubt I'm unique enough to have invented a new tone but I never intentionally chased someone else's tone.

[Groovey Records]

My limited experience leads me to believe most players sound like excrement.

Very very few exception to that rule, myself included.

[kludge]

Sometimes I play with a rather elaborate pedalboard. Sometimes I play with just an overdrive. Sometimes, I play unplugged acoustic. It all sounds like... me.

There are certain things I can't play without the full pedalboard, in particular a trilogy of songs where effects textures are an integral part of the sound. To play those songs in a meaningful manner, as they were composed, I need an EBow, volume pedal, runaway echoes, and feedback. But I think it's safe to say that the effects weren't used to make me sound the same as, well, ANYONE. And I'd go so far as to say that most guitarists would have a great deal of trouble playing those songs right, unless they have highly developed technique with the EBow, feedback, and manipulating pedal knobs with their feet while playing.

There are other things I can't play electric at all - they require an unplugged acoustic guitar. Likewise, I think most guitarists would find certain songs difficult to play. And it's not that I'm a great technician, either! I've just built a highly personal approach over the years, and can't really separate the techniques I've taught myself from the compositions.