Why so many pedals?

[Waynel]

Just an innocent question from an old dog. No judgement here, just curious. I just got back to gigging after a 25 year layoff (got the kids out the door). Back in "the day" we certainly used some pedals. A Cry Baby, maybe a phaser, chorus, digital delay...just to add a little color from time-to-time, but nothing like I see now. All these pedals really amaze me. Why in the world would you need more distortion with an all tube Marshall or Fender? You shell out a fortune for incredible tone from the guitar and amp and then....change it with 10 pedals? Or is the thinking to get a reasonably priced guitar and solid state amp which serves basically as a main board to deliver the pedal tones? I mean, I could buy another Les Paul for what some of these boards must have cost to put together.

[schenkadere]

Originally Posted by Waynel

Just an innocent question from an old dog. No judgement here, just curious. I just got back to gigging after a 25 year layoff (got the kids out the door). Back in "the day" we certainly used some pedals. A Cry Baby, maybe a phaser, chorus, digital delay...just to add a little color from time-to-time, but nothing like I see now. All these pedals really amaze me. Why in the world would you need more distortion with an all tube Marshall or Fender? You shell out a fortune for incredible tone from the guitar and amp and then....change it with 10 pedals? Or is the thinking to get a reasonably priced guitar and solid state amp which serves basically as a main board to deliver the pedal tones? I mean, I could buy another Les Paul for what some of these boards must have cost to put together.

I agree, it's nuts. Save your pennies and buy the best amp you can. I think what happens is that the quest for tone has become much easier since the internet. I mean, really, without it, how would any of these boutique pedal manufacturers survive? A lot of it is fad, hype, keeping up with the Jones' and certain pedals offer a certain status...ex. the almighty Klon. I think most people would be better off spending their money on lessons and their time on practicing. This pedal stacking into that one then into the other one...and then claiming they're "transparent"...whatever that means. Anything with a tone control isn't transparent in my book.

To each his own. I try to keep it simple, but hey, if you have the means, go for it. You won't find me on a 2 year waiting list to pay $300-$400 for a pedal, but that's just me. I like to keep it simple and focus on my tone from my hands.

[Kestrel]

I like experimenting with new sounds and trying out new pedals here and there, but I also try to keep it as simple as possible on my board. Now, I will admit that I sometimes use two delay effects at a time or an extra reverb pedal in the middle of my effects chain, or even a different sounding chorus pedal in addition to another. Sometimes using two of the same effects at different settings will yield interesting results that can serve to enhance your sound.

To me it's a matter of personal preference. If using 2 different fuzz pedals get you that certain sound you want, so be it. That said, I must agree that some of the pedalboards posted on other forums (which shall remain nameless) seems like a bit of overkill. It's as if some people want to place every single pedal they own onto one pedalboard. To each his/her own, I guess.

As for me, I just don't buy into the "boutique" hype. All the pedals I have owned and used have been mass produced factory effects (Electro-Harmonix, Tech 21, Ibanez, MXR, Danelectro, etc..) and I've been quite happy with them. I simply have no need for an overpriced boutique pedal just because a few people rave about them and plaster them all over their pedalboards for all to see.

[barkley]

Good points here, but pedals do things amps dont. For example I use delay, chorus, tremolo, tube distortion and a crybaby in my gigging setup. I dont have them on all the time in every song, but I do use them all in a set. My amp has distortion (overdrive actually) but my pedal is easier to turn on and off so I use that. All the other effects are also somewhat important in the songs I play. The amp is really what gives the pedals nice tone tho.

I collected them (and others!) over many years, so it doesnt really feel like i spent heaps on them, but i suppose the ones I use probaby total about AU$1100. I never thought of that before, but I am glad I have them nonetheless!


What I dont understand is when you see a guitarist with a massive board of 10 or more pedals, and then they only use maybe 2 in their set!! Why would you want to carry that around all the time? Imagine, (assuming they dont have a powersupply for them all) the money spend on batteries for them all could buy another pedal!

[hedegaardo1]

Hello :)

I know that this instance might be different but if you look at John Frusciante (You can't say that he would be better off spending his time on practicing(; I'm sure he practice more than any of us :b)

Well he got an "insane" pedalboard compared to us normal folks.. of course he got the money ect... but really you WONT get that really cool sound of his without the pricey boutique pedals he uses, suchs as Moogs.. Even though he got some mass produced effects too :)

[JoeNeri]

If you're gigging small clubs and venues, you just can't get the natural tube distortion at lower volumes. Pedals get you there without the bar owner unplugging your amp.

[FenderLover]

I think part of it comes from how you define Tone, and what you play. I use very few pedals but have over 2 dozen. If you play in a cover band, sometimes you need a little help with FX to really nail a part. My tastes change too, especially with distortions. I used to ONLY use the TS-9 for many years, now I seldom use it. I've just gotten into vibe pedals, and will probably buy another one. Not having to feed children helps, so we all have our vices.

[barkley]

Well he got an "insane" pedalboard compared to us normal folks.. of course he got the money ect... but really you WONT get that really cool sound of his without the pricey boutique pedals he uses, suchs as Moogs.. Even though he got some mass produced effects too :)

I hope he uses them all in a set!!

[Nub]

Well, I can only speak for myself...

I have nice amps, but play in places where I can't always turn them up enough to get them real dirty. "Transparent" OD's, which add drive but still leave the basic tone of your amp intact, are perfect for getting the amp's natural overdrive sound at lower volumes. OD/Dist that aren't so transparent are like spices when you're cooking... they change the "flavor" of what you're serving up. I love my '59 Bassman LTD, but that doesn't mean that I don't sometimes want some Dumble smoothness for a lead, or some Marshall crunch for a rhythm part... my Zendrive & Pearl Drive get me there. Do I need more than a couple of drive pedals to get it done? No... but it's fun to try new stuff! It's just another facet of the hobby that some folks enjoy... why dog it?

Btw, I've never owned a Klon, but I know some great players who do, and they get some killer sounds with it. If a piece of gear helps you nail the sound you're trying to achieve, it's worth what it costs. Plus, the Klon is one of the few pieces of gear that you can buy, use it for a while and if you aren't in love with it, sell it for a profit. Nothing wrong with that!

[Pinball_Wizard]

I keep it simple. I got the best Solid State I could get, fiddled with a few dirtboxes, got a wah, modulation, and delay.

If I were to gig tomorrow it'd be Dirtbox-Wah-Delay.

I guess the pedal hoarding comes from the desire to make new sounds, but it's always going to be based off modulation parameters, frequency filters, compressors, and delay, for pushing the soundscape, Synth is Synth. A lot of people don't want to have to bend down and adjust the knobs, that's the biggest part.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by Waynel

All these pedals really amaze me. Why in the world would you need more distortion with an all tube Marshall or Fender? You shell out a fortune for incredible tone from the guitar and amp and then....change it with 10 pedals?

That's not taking into account the HUGE gray area in between the core tones of a great guitar into a great amp. Distortion/clipping/overdrive need not be viewed as a linear thing, but a dynamic one along a continuum.

Some pedals truly excel at light amounts of clipping. Aside from running back and turning knobs on the amp, how are you going to practically do that, midsong?

Some pedals excel at moderate amounts of clipping - not really light OD and not really heavy distortion. You can really sculpt the characteristics of that, as well, with a pedal. Typically, the best amps will only do that at certain volumes. Flexibility is the crux with medium gain dirt boxes.

Then there's the truly heavy stuff. It can be either fuzz or full on distortion. IMO, full on distortion from most amps is mainly noise, because you're starting to get into the realm of blocking distortion and crossover distortion - both of which are typically considered as being unmusical, whether the amp is fizzing or farting. A pedal allows you to keep the amp in a musical range (usually clean), and sculpt the heavy clipping at the box - the EQ, amount of drive, and maybe even more features.

...As for fuzz, I have yet to hear a guitar amp that has fuzz that sounds excellent. It may not be an effect that you dig, but many players are fuzz fiends. There are so many flavors that it's hard to pick just one.

And I haven't even addressed boost pedals. Some folks just want a little extra volume. Some folks want it a little brighter. Some folks want the treble boost. Some want a full range boost. Some use it to slam a good amp into OD. Some use a boost with an EQ to raise the volume but tailor the treble or bass (or both).

(Some) pedals have come a long way in the past few decades. Many aren't as overt as the ones from yesteryear. And many of the overt designs have been refined or redesigned. All of these options are a great way to add flexibility to a great fundamental tone of a stellar guitar and amp.

Although it almost always gravitates into such, this need not be an all or nothing, black or white, completely polarized perception.

[11 Gauge]

I should also add that for some guitarists, pedals almost become instruments.

They are an integral part of their their style, usually a very comprehensive one. Not just marks getting screwed outta money by a bunch of "boutique predators."

Here's a little video of Oz Noy. It DOES NOT highlight just what an excellent player he is - you'll have to listen to his albums to experience that. But it does give some insight into just how far pedals can take you, if you have the headspace for them.

[Wrong-Note Rod]

I love pedals. I have a whole bunch. I've got three amps and different boards with each amp. for my Marshall, I dont need a pedal for distortion, but I do use effects, echo, flange, chorus, wah, etc... for amps that I run clean to play smaller places, I use a variety of multi-effect things that do have built-in overdirve or whatever.

Last night I saw Vince Gill on the Jay Leno show, and he had a very large pedalboard. Go argue with him.

[barkley]

^^ What he said! (11 Gauge that is!)

[hannigan]

Pedals are fun!!!!
And I like fun.

[ReIgnition]

I'll attack the question from a different angle.

I grew up in the "Disco Sucks" era - You either listened to Rock and Roll or R&B... very little middle ground - maybe a few gray areas here and there with blues rock, but you didn't wear your Donna Summers T-Shirt to the Ted Nugent concert.

Kids in recent years listen to a much wider variety of music, A lot of guitarist coming up can shred on a Jackson RR1... and then play blues, classical, funk, punk... you name it. Plenty of old timers too if they were willing to acknowledge other genres.

The pedals really do help when you "really enjoy" playing many different types of music - not just a casual 'like' - but really enjoy the full spectrum of whats out there today... except pop

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Originally Posted by Waynel

Just an innocent question from an old dog. No judgement here, just curious. I just got back to gigging after a 25 year layoff (got the kids out the door). Back in "the day" we certainly used some pedals. A Cry Baby, maybe a phaser, chorus, digital delay...just to add a little color from time-to-time, but nothing like I see now. All these pedals really amaze me. Why in the world would you need more distortion with an all tube Marshall or Fender? You shell out a fortune for incredible tone from the guitar and amp and then....change it with 10 pedals? Or is the thinking to get a reasonably priced guitar and solid state amp which serves basically as a main board to deliver the pedal tones? I mean, I could buy another Les Paul for what some of these boards must have cost to put together.

I feel 100% the same as you !

You would think that top pro-muso's (over the age of 30) would know better !

The bloke from U2 (the edge), has money buy every valve amp ever made, ten times over, and still he plays a 2K valve amp clean, and use solid state dirt boxes for his grit



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sBLir8H2zM

Still a movie that i am not gonna miss

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Originally Posted by schenkadere

I agree, it's nuts. Save your pennies and buy the best amp you can.

Now here is a man that thinks the same as me !

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Originally Posted by hedegaardo1

Hello :)

I know that this instance might be different but if you look at John Frusciante (You can't say that he would be better off spending his time on practicing(; I'm sure he practice more than any of us :b)

Well he got an "insane" pedalboard compared to us normal folks.. of course he got the money ect... but really you WONT get that really cool sound of his without the pricey boutique pedals he uses, suchs as Moogs.. Even though he got some mass produced effects too :)

I like the all of the RHCP albums untill, and up to "One Hot Minute".

But i still think he sounds generic and almost boring to my ears.
There is nothing about his tone that makes me sit up and pay attention as soon as i hear him play.
I know that is just my oppinion, but i really think his tone is very bland.

[ibobunot]

Originally Posted by SirJackdeFuzz

The bloke from U2 (the edge), has money buy every valve amp ever made, ten times over, and still he plays a 2K valve amp clean, and use solid state dirt boxes for his grit

There's more than one way to skin any particular cat....

Brett Kingman Pedalboard Tour

[jrich99]

Originally Posted by JoeNeri

If you're gigging small clubs and venues, you just can't get the natural tube distortion at lower volumes. Pedals get you there without the bar owner unplugging your amp.

I do think this is part of it, and there's just so many options available. As for me personally, I don't gig a lot so I mainly use my Digitech RP350.

[RomanS]

Here's my current pedal-board:


I play in a country-rock/rockabilly cover-band (lots of songs by Johnny Cash, CCR, Elvis, Hank Williams, but also some more rocking stuff, Springsteen,etc.)

-) slapback echo is ESSENTIAL for a real rockabilly sound - so I need a delay pedal;
-) my main amp doesn't have tremolo - but we play lots of CCR songs - can't be done without a tremolo pedal;
-) I need a clean sound 90% of the time, so I play an amp with lots of clean headroom; but I also need an overdrive sound for some "rocking" songs - so I need an overdrive pedal;
-) I play lap steel and Tele through the same amp/effects rig; my lap steel pickups have A LOT less output than those on my Tele, so I need a booster (the Zoom PD01) to get the lap steel's output up to that of my Tele;
-) I use my lap steel a lot to make pedal-steel-like sounds, chord pads, violin-ish sounds - and a volume pedal is essential for doing those swells and fades;
-) my amp does have spring reverb, which I use for my Tele - but for lap steel for thos sounds I mentioned I need much higher levels of reverb than for my Tele - and when I switch from Tele to lap steel, I have to find my steel bar, put on my finger- and thumb-picks, unplug the Tele, re-plug the lap steel, and sit down on my stool - if I had to walk back to my amp to turn up the reverb, I'd need even more time between songs than I already do - so I prefer to simply step on a reverb pedal;
-) oh, and I guess I don't need to mention tha a tuner is essential for playing in a band with other instruments?

So, while I use quite a few pedals, every single one is important, I couldn't do without any of them!

[nosuch]

Originally Posted by JoeNeri

If you're gigging small clubs and venues, you just can't get the natural tube distortion at lower volumes.

Ever heard of that avant garde thing called master volume?

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Originally Posted by nosuch

Ever heard of that avant garde thing called master volume?

Or low wattage amps, like the little killer Marshall 2061X of 20watts





. . . and there are much cheaper alternatives that sound great, Vox Night Train and, and, and !

I believe there is a great sounding low wattage amp for every one out there.
Gig'ing small clubs most of the time, get a low wattage all-valve amp

Great cranked tone and the club owner/sound man stays happy.


my 2cents

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by SirJackdeFuzz

But i still think he sounds generic and almost boring to my ears.
There is nothing about his tone that makes me sit up and pay attention as soon as i hear him play.

Which he/him are you referring to? Hillel, Jack, DeWayne, Arik, Zander, Jesse, John, or Dave? Or were they all generic and boring?

That's a long list of accomplished and talented guitarists to hit with that big of a brush. Don't mean to cause any unrest - just a little surprised by what seems like a sweeping statement.

But more to the point - is there any correlation between the usage of pedals and a lackluster tone on RHCP albums? Because I fail to see one.

[jjkrause84]

I have:

Boomerang Looper
Carbon Copy
Big Ben OD
Crybaby Wah (that I virtually never use)

I WANT more! I want a Hazarai Memory Man and a HBE Psilocybe Phaser then I should be done in the short term for pedals. As an experimental guy you want a fairly wide palate of sounds at your disposal. I'll probably be "mid-scale", once I get the last two, in terms of how many pedals I use for modern psychedelic rock.

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

Which he/him are you referring to? Hillel, Jack, DeWayne, Arik, Zander, Jesse, John, or Dave? Or were they all generic and boring?

That's a long list of accomplished and talented guitarists to hit with that big of a brush. Don't mean to cause any unrest - just a little surprised by what seems like a sweeping statement.

But more to the point - is there any correlation between the usage of pedals and a lackluster tone on RHCP albums? Because I fail to see one.

Oh sorry for the confusion.

I thought it was clear that i was referring to John Frusciante, seeing that we were talking about his pedal board.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by nosuch

Ever heard of that avant garde thing called master volume?

I can't seem to locate it on my '71 Vibrolux Reverb...or my '79 Deluxe Reverb, for that matter. I guess I'm just not avant garde - what to do?

[Televised]

I have one pedal, (TS9 moded to an 808).
Some guitarist want to have as many options and tones as possible, others are after one maybe two tones as kind of a signiture tone. I'm in the latter camp.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by SirJackdeFuzz

Oh sorry for the confusion.

I thought it was clear that i was referring to John Frusciante, seeing that we were talking about his pedal board.

So it's just the albums with John on them that sound generic and boring?

How would you rate Navarro in comparison? I'm just curious.

Either way, what does it have to do with pedal usage? I still fail to grasp the correlation. Did you watch the Oz Noy video? Does he seem generic and boring? I'm trying to understand where you're coming from with your viewpoint.

[still_fiddlin]

I had a similar layoff, though about 30 years on electric - kept playing acoustic for about 5 years after getting out of rock & roll bands. I never owned a pedal. But now, I use a bunch. Like many said, part of it is the fact I simply can't turn up even my little 15W PRRI to get that overdriven amp sound that I was standing in front of back then (hey, anyone else hear that high pitched whistling noise?). But part is also my curiosity and the fact that I have to produce a wider variety of sounds (because I cover a wider range of material), and some are simply not achievable with one guitar and one amp.

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

Either way, what does it have to do with pedal usage? I still fail to grasp the correlation. Did you watch the Oz Noy video? Does he seem generic and boring? I'm trying to understand where you're coming from with your viewpoint.

Counting no less than 25 pedals (6 being MOOG), one can try and justify them all by using the angle of, "it is there for extra spice".
But to me his tone is still bland and not exciting at the least.
Now i have to ask myself, what is he doing w all that much spice, if (to MY ears) he still sounds so bland ?

Now remeber, to someone else he might have the worlds best tone of the current guitarists, but we are all very diff, and like i said before, does nothing for me, 'tone wise'.

[backalleyblues]

Jack,
I'd describe Frusciante's tones as "minimalist", but also being right for the groove and the song, which is what RHCP has been about for about the last 20 years or so (and which Dave Navarro didn't quite understand!).

As for my own pedalboard amusement, I like having 2 different distortions (usually a tubscreamer into a Rat) on board, and will turn both of them on when I feel it-there's something magical about that combination, a fluidity of tone I get, that I would never get out of an amp by itself. Throw in a booster to goose it a little further... a tremolo 'cuz my amps don't have it built-in, and I like doing organ comps with it... reverb and slapback, mostly for the same reasons Roman S mentioned... and of course a tuner. I'm swearing off chorus pedals now, they just muck up the sound for me...

Roman, have you tried playing the lap steel with pick-and fingers, or just fingers? Speeds up the switch time (I play lap steel quite a bit myself) and I like the tone I'm getting...

Franc Robert

[cletus]

Ya know--- I see these threads and normally cruise on by. But here goes.
I started playing in clubs/country bars/roadhouses whatever you wanna call them back in 1980. we were pretty much a top 40 country band that always did a "rock-n-roll" last set. The POS pa system we had would only push the vocals and monitors so I could actually crank my twin reverb because it had to carry the whole room. So a TS9 and and a delay was all i needed to get every sound that was popular at the time. But here's the biggest difference from 1980 to present --- Not all OD's are of the TS type and you just can't crank an amp anymore ANYWHERE without getting fired from a gig. I use diff pedals for diff jobs (not spice) they each have a specific job. If they didn't do their job I wouldn't use them. Same goes for my amps. And guitars. And everything else that is part of my sound. My main gig is still in a cover band so I make damn sure I can cover every song we can do. If they made an amp that met all my requirements I would use it--- but they don't. And I know I'll get flamed for this --- Tone is not in the fingers --- technique is in the fingers. Don't believe me--- put your fingers in your ears and see how they sound!!! Rant over.

cletus

[djinn1973]

I love my amp but; even with a master volume on board tremolo and on board reverb theres a lot of ground it just cant cover on its own.

[ReIgnition]

This is a tough argument, some guys don't get it.

If you like the sound of a flanger, you either buy a flanger pedal - or make flanger noises with your mouth.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by cletus

And I know I'll get flamed for this --- Tone is not in the fingers --- technique is in the fingers. Don't believe me--- put your fingers in your ears and see how they sound!!! Rant over.

You shouldn't be flamed - you should be applauded.

Almost every time one of these types of threads starts up, there's at least one response that's to the effect of, "stop wasting your time (or money, etc.) on _____ and concentrate on practicing (or some other subjectively determined superior pursuit), or some similar "displacement" type of argument.

I applaud your elaboration, based on real experiences, and how they relate to this thread, and the question raised by the OP. Much better than subjective opinions, or ones that would do little more than simply derail the discussion altogether. JMO.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by SirJackdeFuzz

Counting no less than 25 pedals (6 being MOOG), one can try and justify them all by using the angle of, "it is there for extra spice".
But to me his tone is still bland and not exciting at the least.
Now i have to ask myself, what is he doing w all that much spice, if (to MY ears) he still sounds so bland ?

So it's more a confined, subjective case of underwhelming pedal use by just John? I think I understand where you're coming from - but just not sure how wide you're "casting the net," so to speak. Maybe there's a list of bland tone guitarists that should have their pedals taken away?

I'm always curious about this, because someone might slam one guy's rig, but then drool over another one's. Since it's such a subjective thing, I always wonder about the source of any strong motivation.

[cletus]

Waynel-- you said no judgment on your side so I apologize if I came across as an ass. If you are getting back in the saddle after 25 yrs are your intentions to play the same music you played back then? If so then the couple of pedals you mentioned will surely do a great job. They probably even have better models of the same pedals ie: true bypass,better components,hardware. The distortion side of a 20 watt Marshall or Fender is pretty sweet when you can get the tubes cooking up to the sagging point. One of the best sounds I ever heard OD wise was from an old 18 watt Vox. But with todays technology in PA equip we no longer have the luxury of cranking amps into their sweet spot but rather have to maintain a more manageable stage volume. So now my amps of choice have to start with a crystal clear clean channel and then I add my dirt and lead boost using pedals. The other pedals are essential in covering certain songs in our set. I simply can't do Waylon without a phaser. I can't do rockabilly without some dirt and a delay or country without a compressor and some chorus on the slow songs. You don't have to have these pedals but it sounds a hell of a lot more realistic to the original when you do. I don't buy/own reasonably priced guitars or solid state amps. I wait and buy the best I can afford so I'm not gonna put crappy pedals in my rig either. So yes my board does cost as much as a '52 RI tele--- but if I sound like hell at least I know it ain't the gear. Congratulations on getting back into it after all these years and Good Luck to ya!!!

cletus

[Guitar_Ninja]

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." -Stuart Chase