Andy Summers Police Era Effects - Let's Work These Out - audio samples within

[tj7]

let's get to the bottom of some of those vintage andy summers sounds, shall we?
afficionados / police 'experts' know that andy often used an out of phase setting, and an electric mistress to get his nice. watery guitar sounds. his mxr dyna comp (and / or any other compressors he may have been using) contributed significantly to the creaminess of his sound.

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here is a sample from a '79 performance of 'message':

http://www.thedelorean.net/audio/pol...e79-sample.mp3

what else is going on here? there are chord progressions in the chorus in which the chords flow into each other, blending like a keyboard - you can't really hear the 'strum' between them and as far as i can tell this isn't a case of some very clever volume knob work between chords because i've seen footage of this era. i have been trying to work out what the hell is happening for ages now.... it's as if there is no attack happening at all, just a sustain that swells the chords into greater volume as they are held.

here's a video clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUpw8VqT5Io

however there isn't much andy-cam.

the same thing happens in 'shadows' but there is some other effect there too. i know there's electric mistress in there again, but there's also this gassy, wafty 'shhhhccraaaahhhh' undertone going on. ie aside from the obvious moog synth which is being played on top).

*postscript* obviously there's delay in there too. Andy used echoplex machines.

http://www.thedelorean.net/audio/pol...s80-sample.mp3

finally, i have often wondered what effects andy used to get his sound on the synchronicity tour:

http://www.thedelorean.net/audio/pol...e83-sample.mp3

obviously there is a lot of compression there but what else? it is such a unique, distinctive sound - it's a very clinical, spectral kind of sound - very sharp and at once organic and artificial sounding.... any ideas..??

for fun i uploaded a couple clips of my tele run through a vintage mxr dyna comp and electric mistress. i may have recorded the message chorus part with my pickups out of phase but i can't remember....

http://www.thedelorean.net/audio/pol...io%2010_03.mp3
http://www.thedelorean.net/audio/pol...io%2011_16.mp3

[Pinball_Wizard]

Message in a bottle he's got the compressor on and he using volume swells. With the compressor on you don't need to roll as high to get back in the mix.
Easier to do with a tele than you think.

Shadows has Delay and Flanger

[ramseybella]

Mistress and Memory Man.

[tj7]

yeah andy used a lot of delays, that goes without saying :)
here's a known source of info about andy's effects:

http://web.tiscali.it/andatta/menu.htm

[tj7]

Originally Posted by Pinball_Wizard

Message in a bottle he's got the compressor on and he using volume swells. With the compressor on you don't need to roll as high to get back in the mix.
Easier to do with a tele than you think.

you may be right... i've just looked through all my '79-80 police videos and can't find one where the camera is on andy during this part of the song... darn! if he is using a volume pedal, there's some trick to it because the actual sounds he's making are continuous and flow together - i'd suggest a lot of post-volume pedal delay or something but you can't hear an 'echo' as such....

[tj7]

so, nobody has any suggestions re: the 1983 sample i posted...?

http://www.thedelorean.net/audio/pol...e83-sample.mp3

obviously there is a lot of compression there but what else? it is such a unique, distinctive sound - it's a very clinical, spectral kind of sound - very sharp and at once organic and artificial sounding.... any ideas..??

here is a clip from the 'ghost album. the guitar sound here reminds me of the above 'message' audio as it has a similar sharp, spiky kind of sound. is it a tight slap delay type thing? a pitch shifted sound low in the mix?

http://www.thedelorean.net/audio/pol...ize-sample.mp3

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[Pinball_Wizard]

Originally Posted by tj7

you may be right... i've just looked through all my '79-80 police videos and can't find one where the camera is on andy during this part of the song... darn! if he is using a volume pedal, there's some trick to it because the actual sounds he's making are continuous and flow together - i'd suggest a lot of post-volume pedal delay or something but you can't hear an 'echo' as such....

I'm sure it's all volume knob, with a compressor on you can really lay it out quickly try and keep your pinky dangling to it at all times.

There's a youtube video with G.E. Smith doing volume swells on a tele. after seeing that I've never had any issues laying down some swelling chords.

[Uma Floresta]

Obviously the Electric Mistress is the main modulation pedal used most of the time, but I think at least for recording he also used the chorus from one of those Roland Jazz amps, and live he may have used the Boss CE-1, or so I've heard. Where you hear chorusing sans any swooshiness but rather just detuning, I think it may be the Boss/Roland. It seems like the MXR Dynacomp is always on as well. He made good use of volume swells and echoplex in a lot of songs too.

[Uma Floresta]

And of course in the later albums he started using more Strat.

[tj7]

Originally Posted by Uma Floresta

And of course in the later albums he started using more Strat.

yes but the sounds i've referred to above were all made using his telecaster.

[tj7]

Originally Posted by Pinball_Wizard

I'm sure it's all volume knob, .

a fair call but i actually don't think it all is - in the few shots of andy during the 'message' chorus section (youtube link) he doesn't hit it once. i've also looked through several other videos and whilst i can't see what his feet are doing, he isn't using the volume knob to do those continuous swells in 'message'.... something i should look at more closely though, i agree.... i this instance i think the run of chords in that 'message' chorus is too continuous and fluid to have all been volume knob.

[Uma Floresta]

Originally Posted by tj7

yes but the sounds i've referred to above were all made using his telecaster.

Even the 83 clip? That was the Synchronicity tour, wasn't it?

[tj7]

Originally Posted by Uma Floresta

Even the 83 clip? That was the Synchronicity tour, wasn't it?

yep he used the telecaster for 'message' (and about half the set at least from memory) during that tour, heaps of clips on youtube to show this if you don't have the hours of dvd footage in a drawer like me!

[doggins]

Andy used the volume pedal a lot live. This clip has some good shots, particularly around 4:27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7c4Dip36Ac

[tj7]

Originally Posted by doggins

Andy used the volume pedal a lot live. This clip has some good shots, particularly around 4:27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7c4Dip36Ac

well spotted. looked up some 'shadows' clips and it's there too. i guess he must have just been very clever with it for those '79 versions of 'message'....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUpw8VqT5Io

[doggins]

Even on that Message clip from Hamburg '79 you can see that he never moves away from his pedalboard during the c#m to A part, presumably to keep his foot on the volume pedal. Although he probably also needs to stay close to do some effects switching before he starts the lead so who knows. I think those videos from Chile '82 are good ones to watch because there are a lot of medium shots where you can keep an eye on his hands and feet.

[tj7]

so, anyone have any suggestions about andy's '83 sound (see above posts) ? he was using the same guitar in those clips (tele, not the strat) and the change in sound / tone is remarkable....

[Middleman]

He used a very early guitar synth made by Roland. It had been on the market a couple of years and he adopted it for a lot of his sound. It was the most advanced sound designer product at the time. A lot of the swirling and metallic sounds came from that.

Historically he used:

Roland GR-505
Roland GR-300
Roland GR-303
Roland GR-700

[tj7]

true, so a lot of that textural stuff is just going to be unattainable to the likes of me, save for modern pedal effect emulation..

however i'm still at a loss re andy's '83 tele sound. i am sure some different compresser may have been used, but it's such a saturated, sharp kind of sound, there's something else going on there.....

Originally Posted by Middleman

He used a very early guitar synth made by Roland. It had been on the market a couple of years and he adopted it for a lot of his sound. It was the most advanced sound designer product at the time. A lot of the swirling and metallic sounds came from that.

Historically he used:

Roland GR-505
Roland GR-300
Roland GR-303
Roland GR-700

[Uma Floresta]

Didn't he use an MXR compressor? Plus he had an out of phase switch and an onboard OD on his guitar.

[tj7]

yes to all of those. so what new effects did he use in '83 to get that sound? he was using the same guitar with the same mods and yet the sound, as per the samples i have linked to, is vastly different....