New Dano Timmy Knock-Off - Transparent Overdrive

[Anchoret]

Originally Posted by rhinocaster

The system isn't set up to deal with the smaller sonic differences that are apparent to musicians. Actually, the system isn't set up to deal will sonic differences at all.

Right, because they are technologically insignificant.

People are profiting from the work of others. I do find that unforgivable.

You must be incredibly selective in your misplaced outrage, in that this is the fundamental way that all technology advances.

I can scarcely think of an exception. Certainly not with some stupid, primitive dirtbox circuit that itself is nothing but an insignificant tweak on several hundred previous designs.

Never mind the SMT conversion of that circuit is a significant technological advancement that would pass the Reasonable Man doctrine even if it were under fishy trade-dress protection of unpatentable circuitry.

You can ask yourself, if the builder was your friend, would you feel comfortable making a clone of their pedal?

Sure, absolutely.

Surely you're not suggesting that something has to be illegal to be wrong.

No, I'm suggesting that the social intention of American patent law is correct. Mere "good ideas" that are derivative developments of previous work no longer under patent are the property of all to do with as they wish because this serves the common weal. Products become cheaper, more accessible, more rapidly developed and otherwise have a faster effect on society's improvement.

This isn't a mistake, it isn't a "loophole"...it's the way it's supposed to be.

Believe me, I'm glad I don't have to spend a dollar or more per pill for ibuprofen as I would have if the formula was still under patent.

What amazes me is not so much that musicians are too impenetrably dense and technologically ignorant to get this, but that on top of everything else, they make a wrongheaded argument that's blatantly against their own interests.

[iowa]

Just my personal opinion.

The Tim/Timmy pedals are truly amazing sounding. Exceptionally transparent and very responsive to picking dynamics. In the You Tube clip, I thought the Dano sounded muddy. Close, but not as good as the Timmy.

I have dealt with Paul Cochrane in the past and am willing to spend more for his pedal. I had a Tim, and have a Timmy on order. Paul is a class act AND I prefer to support the little guys that developed the product when I can.

As always, YMMV.

[Anchoret]

Originally Posted by iowa

In the You Tube clip, I thought the Dano sounded muddy. .

I think the test methodology was really flawed in that particular YouTube "shootout" (and most others), which seemed typically crudely administered. As previously mentioned by someone else, the EQ setting of the Danelectro seemed off from the other unit, which would explain the differences.

But...if I'm wrong about that and there really is a difference, then this obviously isn't an "exact clone" of the original unit.

You can't have that both ways.

[rhinocaster]

Originally Posted by Anchoret

Right, because they are technologically insignificant.


You must be incredibly selective in your misplaced outrage, in that this is the fundamental way that all technology advances.

I can scarcely think of an exception. Certainly not with some stupid, primitive dirtbox circuit that itself is nothing but an insignificant tweak on several hundred previous designs.

Never mind the SMT conversion of that circuit is a significant technological advancement that would pass the Reasonable Man doctrine even if it were under fishy trade-dress protection of unpatentable circuitry.


Sure, absolutely.


No, I'm suggesting that the social intention of American patent law is correct. Mere "good ideas" that are derivative developments of previous work no longer under patent are the property of all to do with as they wish because this serves the common weal. Products become cheaper, more accessible, more rapidly developed and otherwise have a faster effect on society's improvement.

This isn't a mistake, it isn't a "loophole"...it's the way it's supposed to be.

Believe me, I'm glad I don't have to spend a dollar or more per pill for ibuprofen as I would have if the formula was still under patent.

What amazes me is not so much that musicians are too impenetrably dense and technologically ignorant to get this, but that on top of everything else, they make a wrongheaded argument that's blatantly against their own interests.

No much for me to say here.

I find the practice to be not acceptable.


Take care.

[Jelle]

Ethics debate aside, I think it's a wonderful sounding (not looking ) pedal. Picked up the V1 a week ago and played with it extensively and I am amazed.

[yelserpdog]

I much prefer the Dano. The Timmy sounded a bit fizzy to me.

[spankdplank]

I just got a TOD to put on my "B" pedal board. LOVE IT!!!!! The "B" board will have to wait. This one is going on my "A" pedal board, right after a 79 MXR Dynacomp and in front of a 1980 TS 808 and 81 Boss CE 2 chorus. It sounds so good, I am confident this pedal will be right at home with my old classics.

As far as the Timmy debate, I'm with Anchoret on this one. No one seems to be up in arms over the Digitech Bad Monkey and all the other TS 808 clones. Is the moral outrage because Paul C. is an individual and Digitech isn't? That doesn't seem to be a valid basis for moral outrage to me. If Paul C. had created something truly unique and original, he could have filed for patent protection. He didn't, so he didn't.

[Anchoret]

Originally Posted by spankdplank

As far as the Timmy debate, I'm with Anchoret on this one. No one seems to be up in arms over the Digitech Bad Monkey and all the other TS 808 clones. Is the moral outrage because Paul C. is an individual and Digitech isn't? That doesn't seem to be a valid basis for moral outrage to me. If Paul C. had created something truly unique and original, he could have filed for patent protection. He didn't, so he didn't.

Listen. At this point ANYTHING you do with some two-bit dirtbox circuit has been done before, and in many trivially different combinations. It's nothing but hobbyist-level tinkering around.

It's not ambient-temperature superconductance or cold fusion. It's not a cure for MRSA. It's not the revolutionary storage battery formula that industry's been waiting for for a hundred years.

It's not big science or defensible intellectual property.

It's nothing but your dirty little pebble that you've tossed into the common muddy pool of collective dirtbox tech.

End of story.

The real hero is the one who gets the end product into the most hands for the least money.

[ramseybella]

Originally Posted by badmelonfarmer

I have no idea about Heritage, but Paul C is NOT out of business. I spoke to him on Tuesday and and he is still making the pedals.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndID=354097210

As other have said, a real nice guy.

Cheers

BMF

Thats what I was stating!!
HE is no longer with Heritage amplifiers as he was a designer of some models, They went belly up!!
He is back full time building pedals.

[yelserpdog]

Originally Posted by Anchoret

The real hero is the one who gets the end product into the most hands for the least money.

I agree. Surely people should be more annoyed at those 'boutique' companies that are bringing out versions of the same pedals, giving them a fancy name and charging ridiculously high prices.

[Anchoret]

Originally Posted by yelserpdog

I agree. Surely people should be more annoyed at those 'boutique' companies that are bringing out versions of the same pedals, giving them a fancy name and charging ridiculously high prices.

No, they can't do that because they're suffering from gear-buyer Stockholm Syndrome.

BTW, I'm not joking. I've been watching this carefully for years.

[studio1087]

My Dano's are here and I like them a lot. I had not followed the bee's nest that developed hear.

I asked this on another thread......what did Dano specifically do to deserve the legal and ethical trouble. What did Dano copy? What proprietary part did Dano copy so exactly?

Saying that this guy's pedal sounds like that guys pedal is silly. There are 30 TS9 copies out there and Ibanez isn't taking legal action.

What did Dano do?

John

[2ndstringer]

Originally Posted by studio1087

My Dano's are here and I like them a lot. I had not followed the bee's nest that developed hear.

I asked this on another thread......what did Dano specifically do to deserve the legal and ethical trouble. What did Dano copy? What proprietary part did Dano copy so exactly?

Saying that this guy's pedal sounds like that guys pedal is silly. There are 30 TS9 copies out there and Ibanez isn't taking legal action.

What did Dano do?

John

There are a bunch of threads on this on The Gear Page and elsewhere. Apparently the folks on freestompboxes.org, where the members engage in reverse engineering stompboxes so that they can build them themselves, discovered that a) the circuit for Paul Cochrane's Timmy is somewhat unique, i.e not a clone of anything previous, and b) the Dano T.O. is exactly the same circuit. They also found that the Dano Cool Cat Fuzz is the same as circuit as the Frantone Peachfuzz, and the Drive is the same as the Fulltone OCD. Freestompboxes.org appears to be down at the moment. TGP seems to be about cultivating boutique stompbox mystique, and freestompboxes tends to deflate such mystique by revealing the secrets of the builders, so they are very different places.

It's all very amusing, really. The circuits are not patented, and apparently cannot be. There doesn't seem to be any legal issue. The ethical issues are murky. Most people are tired of the discussion.

John

[studio1087]

Originally Posted by 2ndstringer

There are a bunch of threads on this on The Gear Page and elsewhere. Apparently the folks on freestompboxes.org, where the members engage in reverse engineering stompboxes so that they can build them themselves, discovered that a) the circuit for Paul Cochrane's Timmy is somewhat unique, i.e not a clone of anything previous, and b) the Dano T.O. is exactly the same circuit. They also found that the Dano Cool Cat Fuzz is the same as circuit as the Frantone Peachfuzz, and the Drive is the same as the Fulltone OCD. Freestompboxes.org appears to be down at the moment. TGP seems to be about cultivating boutique stompbox mystique, and freestompboxes tends to deflate such mystique by revealing the secrets of the builders, so they are very different places.

It's all very amusing, really. The circuits are not patented, and apparently cannot be. There doesn't seem to be any legal issue. The ethical issues are murky. Most people are tired of the discussion.

John

That's the best explanation that I've gotten so far. I appreciate it. Thank you.

John