Effects placement and buffer help

[chrisdk]

Hello!

I have the following pedals:

Korg Pitchblack Tuner
Barber LTD
MI Audio Crunch Box
Demeter Tremulator (TRM-1)
DLS Echotap Delay
MI Audio Boost 'n' buff

So far the order is as above, but I am trying to find the best way to place these pedals, while also keeping buffers in mind.

All the pedals except the Tremulator and the BNB are true bypass. And the Tremulator claims to act as a line driver, because of a low-impedance output, thus eliminating signal loss.

Now I have heard that it's a good idea to have a buffer as the first and last pedal in a chain. So far I have the BNB as the last pedal in the chain, which takes care of the last pedal being a buffer, and I think it's pretty nice to have a boost pedal in the last part of the effects chain.
But I am not really sure about what to with the first pedal in the chain, if it should be a buffer?

What would you recommend I do? Thanks.

[klasaine]

First off ... how does it all sound?

That signal chain looks pretty good to me.
If you feel you need a buffer in front you "could" change out the tuner for a Boss or Petersen (strobo stomp) tuner - both are or can be buffered (strobo is variable).
I use a Demeter compressor first a lot - also buffered. You can put a dedicated buffer in front - Axess BS-2 is a good one (or use a boost pedal set to unity gain and leave it on).

Again, I don't think you really need one up front unless you're running 30 feet of cable.

[tjalla]

I might suggest moving the Boost & Buff gradually up the chain and see if there are any improvements. I did that with mine and it solved two pedals that didn't like to talk (Voodoo Lab MicroVibe and Ernie Ball Vol).

[chrisdk]

I actually do have a Korg DT-10 tuner as well, which I believe have a buffer too - although I don't know the quality of it, maybe I could place that first??

I kind of like the idea with the boost 'n' buff last, for buffer right before the amp...

But what's your take on the Tremulator in the middle of the chain, and its function as a line driver? Can't you have too many buffers?

[klasaine]

"Can't you have too many buffers?"

Yeah, probably in some situations depending on a lot of other factors - or not.
The Demeter has a GREAT buffer in it - possibly one of the best in a pedal so I wouldn't worry about that one, wherever you put it.

Are you experiencing something tonally that you don't like?

[chrisdk]

Originally Posted by klasaine

Are you experiencing something tonally that you don't like?

Yeah, my ears tell me there's a difference with the Tremulator, when I run it on the pedal board as now, and when I just run the pedal alone between the guitar and amp. The tone being more pleasant in the last case.

This makes me believe I may need some sort of buffer at the start of the pedalboard chain...

[klasaine]

Try this:

Guitar > LTD > Crunchbox > Trem > Amp.
Compare that to trem alone.
Add, one at a time and compare, the DLS, the Boost and buff, then tuner.
I know it's a pain but you want to find the 'problem' pedal. There are other variables - cables, jacks, etc. (Are you running the trem with a battery or AC? I ONLY use a battery in my Demeter comp - it's quieter.)
I will also contend that you will never get any 'chain' of pedals to sound exactly like just one, straight in.

[Jenix]

correct me if i'm wrong but i always thought true bypass tuners to be pretty much available to be placed anywhere. They don't make any changes to the signal when they're on so it they can go anywhere.

[klasaine]

Everything makes a change, true bypass or not. It's all dependent on how much subtlety you're able to discern and how much it may bother you ... or not(?).
I have a Korg 'pitchblack' tuner and I love it - it's small and it works pretty accurately. I know it claims to be TBP but I think it's one of those new 'not really' true "hardwire" bypass. 'Millenium' bypass maybe which I think still loads the signal. Whatever. Anything you put in your chain changes something just by, at the very least, adding another couple of inches of wire - not to mention another patch cable and two jacks and a bunch of solder joints. You got 5 pedals or so ... you got some loss. There's no two ways around it. You just have to decide whether it bugs you or not.

[chrisdk]

Originally Posted by klasaine

Try this:

Guitar > LTD > Crunchbox > Trem > Amp.
Compare that to trem alone.
Add, one at a time and compare, the DLS, the Boost and buff, then tuner.
I know it's a pain but you want to find the 'problem' pedal. There are other variables - cables, jacks, etc. (Are you running the trem with a battery or AC? I ONLY use a battery in my Demeter comp - it's quieter.)
I will also contend that you will never get any 'chain' of pedals to sound exactly like just one, straight in.

Hmm... yeah, I think you're right - that's probably the only way to do it..
I am using a power supply with the trem... I do think that's more convenient than batteries, but I will give it a shot.

[chrisdk]

A little update:

I tried to put the DT-10 tuner before every pedal, to see how it would react as a buffer.
And I found that the Crunch Box sounds A LOT better to me, when it doesn't go through the buffer in the DT-10 first. So I am definately thinking twice about using a buffered pedal first in the chain...
The CB reacts great when I put the Tremulator after it though, so I think you're right that the Tremulator has a nice buffer in it.

Am still wondering what to do about the Pitchblack though :)

By the way - I don't run 30 feet of cable, but I do run about 20+20 feet.

[chrisdk]

Hi again!

I have come to the following order for now:

Guitar -> MIA CB -> LTD -> Tremulator -> DLS -> Pitchblack -> BNB -> Amp

This way I have 2X true bypass followed by a pretty good buffered pedal twice.

I think the tone is pretty good now, but I'd like to hear your comments... What do you think of the placement of the tuner?

Also, do you guys like buffered or unbuffered signal going in to your LTD?

[Tonemonkey]

Originally Posted by chrisdk

Am still wondering what to do about the Pitchblack though :)

Put it in a TB loop if it bothers you; I have an A/B with Tuner Mute, so it sits outside my chain....I'm surprised that, with only 4 or 5 pedals, buffering was even an issue!

I generally run (all pedals keeley modded TB):
10ft cable > Strat > Wah > Fuzzhead> BD2 > TS-9 > Javaboost> 20ft cable > Twin

Signal loss never been an issue.