Which Pedal First?

[bemmis]

EHX Nano Small Stone?
Proco RAT?
Maybe Even a USSR BigMuff?

I have enough money right now to afford ether the rat or the small stone, but am receiving $100 at the end of the month which would be enough for the fuzz factory. I've been planning on buying the fuzz factory for awhile but I figure if I just bought a ~$80 pedal now i could earn the whole $80 again by the time I had the $100 needed to buy the fuzz factory.

So my question is:

Which of these is generally the best first choice for a pedal? Should I get a distortion first? It does seem like the most default choice. The phaser is also an option. I know it isn't quite as needed as the other pedals but it does make a lot of cool sounds that you cant get easily from other pedals.

I will be using whatever I get with a Fender Stage 112 and a MIM Telecaster Standard that will have a SD Phat Cat or a similar pickup in the bridge and a Lace Sensor Purple in the neck.

[guitarzan13]

What kind of music do you play?

[vjf1968]

ProCo Rat would be a good first choice if that is what you narrowed your choices to. Personally, you could serve yourself better by holding on to your $80. But do yourself and your wallet a favor and check out the Danelectro FAB and COOL CAT series. They run from between $15 to $30 bucks new and sound great. There is really no need to pay out more money when a cheaper alternative is available and is just as good.

[surfoverb]

keep saving for the fuzz factory...In the meantime buy a cheapo behringer to hold you off.

[bemmis]

Originally Posted by guitarzan13

What kind of music do you play?

I play mostly instrumental stuff like ratatat and similar although i also do enjoy playing radiohead and muse esq music here and there.

Also, just to clear it up, I have every intention of buying the fuzz factory and will be able to in about 2 weeks.

[vjf1968]

Well if you have $300 saved for the Fuzz Factory than get that instead of anything elase. Have you tried one out before?

[spameister]

Fuzz Factories are very uncontrollable, I wouldn't recommend it was your first pedal. The second guitarist in my band has one on his pedal board - it never gets used because it's like stepping on a landmine filled with chilli sauce.

PS- get a USA Big Muff rather than a Russian one

[vjf1968]

bemmis, I really feel $300 is a lot of money for a first pedal (or any pedal) and from spammeister's post I can see his point about its usefulness.

Please do yourself a favor and check out some other pedals. Just because something is expensive doesn't necessarily mean its good IMHO. But its up to you.

[Jeru]

Originally Posted by vjf1968

Just because something is expensive doesn't necessarily mean its good IMHO. But its up to you.

Free advice but good advice: Play before you buy, and Listen with your ears, let them tell you what to do. Don't shop by price point or based on whatever is 'the thing to have.'

You owe it to yourself to try out some of the less expensive pedals. Since you're obviously saving up to buy these things, wouldn't it be better if you saved some dough because the thing that actually sounded better or would suit your needs better was over $100-$150 cheaper?

Happy trails.

[junk126]

I love phasers and the Small Stone's my favorite, but I would recommend the USA over the Nano. I just sent a Nano Small Stone, and Nano Small Clone back to Musicians Friend. Both were horribly noisy, and both had significant volume drops when engaged. I had a black Russian Small Stone that was unreliable switching wise, but it sounded great. The Nano's are a great form factor and idea, but executed horribly and cheaply (the two I got at least). As for the two distortions, both of those would be good choices for first pedals, as they are a couple of the standards as far as distortion goes.

[bradpdx]

Many pedals are non-linear by design and intent, which means that they are very order dependent. A distortion pedal followed by a chorus sounds very different from a chorus followed by a distortion pedal.

There is no "best" order, but consider the following:

1. If you have a pedal that incorporates an "always on" buffer amp, that is a good way to drive your other pedals without adversely loading down the guitar. All Boss pedals, for example, use buffer amps.
2. When overdriving an amp (the traditional way) all the other non-distortion effects come first. To duplicate some of this behavior, place your distortion pedal(s) at or near the end of the chain.
3. Compressors should in general be first in a chain, as they set the levels for everything else and will introduce the least noise this way.
4. Fully "passive" pedals may or may not load down your guitar - it depends upon the make. Old MXR pedals and EV pedals generally load down the guitar when not used, so chaining several together can really deaden your "clean" sound by reducing the resistance seen by the guitar.

I use a Rat I've had since the mid-1980s, and the chain is:

Buffer Amp ->Compression -> Chorus -> Distortion -> Volume Pedal -> Delays -> Amp

This arrangement keeps my Tele tone plenty crisp with any and all the pedals.

[bemmis]

OK everyone. I think you guys think I've put a lot less thought in to this than I have.

So... First of all the fuzz factory comes in a cheaper, non-hand-painted verzion (its silver not green) for $180. that would be the one I would get.

I have tried The USSR big muff, the USA big muff, the proco RAT, the little big muff, all of boss's distortion pedals that are recent, the mxr distortion, etc. I AM basing which pedals I get almost entirely on sound, with durability being my second priority.

I actuall bought the proco RAT the day I started this thread brobably 2 hours after i posted it, it's cool, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to return it. here's why: the main reason why I like it is it's fuzziness, but I don't think it will be able to create many sounds that either my amp, or the fuzz factory can't. I at first liked the USA bigg muff more than the USSR one but I changed my mind. the USA muff actually sounds pretty darn similar to my amp. (definitely more extreme though)

A huge priority with a distortion pedal is that it creates a unique sound, the proco rat does a great job of this, but it really isn't as unique once other pedals come into play, and it doesn't have the versatility to become un-fuzzy whereas another pedal might.


EDIT: Ah yes, I have have the inferior MIC RAt.

[vjf1968]

Originally Posted by bemmis

OK everyone. I think you guys think I've put a lot less thought in to this than I have.

So... First of all the fuzz factory comes in a cheaper, non-hand-painted verzion (its silver not green) for $180. that would be the one I would get.

I have tried The USSR big muff, the USA big muff, the proco RAT, the little big muff, all of boss's distortion pedals that are recent, the mxr distortion, etc. I AM basing which pedals I get almost entirely on sound, with durability being my second priority.

I actuall bought the proco RAT the day I started this thread brobably 2 hours after i posted it, it's cool, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to return it. here's why: the main reason why I like it is it's fuzziness, but I don't think it will be able to create many sounds that either my amp, or the fuzz factory can't. I at first liked the USA bigg muff more than the USSR one but I changed my mind. the USA muff actually sounds pretty darn similar to my amp. (definitely more extreme though)

A huge priority with a distortion pedal is that it creates a unique sound, the proco rat does a great job of this, but it really isn't as unique once other pedals come into play, and it doesn't have the versatility to become un-fuzzy whereas another pedal might.


EDIT: Ah yes, I have have the inferior MIC RAt.

Ahhh. You didn't say which Fuzz Factory now did you.

It isn't like we don't think you didn't put a lot of thought into this but you are asking people who, put all together, probably have over a century of experience in this department and I assume a lot of them really hate it when someone gets rooked by an unscrupulous salesperson at a music store.

That's what makes TDPRI a great place. You ask a question and you know you are going to get a lot of informed opinions and advice without anyone being judgmental.

[garytelecastor]

Oh, I thought this was going to be one of those existential riddles. Like: "Which came first the guitar or the pedal?" type of thing.

[bemmis]

also, I just thought I should say. I really really love the proco RAT. It is my favorite distortion pedal I have used. however I'm just not positive that it creates a unique sound and I really don't want to end up with two similar sounding pedals. I will probably end up keeping it for maybe another 2 weeks just until I get the fuzz factory then decide if I will keep it.

My main gripe with it however is it can't get as extreme as the big muff pedals. I've tried using the "mid boost" setting on my amp and it helps but it isn't much better than the distortion channel on my amp. I haven't tried turning the distortion down a bit and using it on the distortion channel as sort of an overdrive so I'll try that later.

However, other than the inability to get extreme, it is perfect to my ears. I love the sound so much. It sounds to me almost like I'm playing "growls" instead of an electric guitar. It's awesome. I think a new pickup would help though... We'll see what happens.

[vjf1968]

Originally Posted by bemmis

also, I just thought I should say. I really really love the proco RAT. It is my favorite distortion pedal I have used. however I'm just not positive that it creates a unique sound and I really don't want to end up with two similar sounding pedals. I will probably end up keeping it for maybe another 2 weeks just until I get the fuzz factory then decide if I will keep it.

My main gripe with it however is it can't get as extreme as the big muff pedals. I've tried using the "mid boost" setting on my amp and it helps but it isn't much better than the distortion channel on my amp. I haven't tried turning the distortion down a bit and using it on the distortion channel as sort of an overdrive so I'll try that later.

However, other than the inability to get extreme, it is perfect to my ears. I love the sound so much. It sounds to me almost like I'm playing "growls" instead of an electric guitar. It's awesome. I think a new pickup would help though... We'll see what happens.

Of course you could always send it to Keeley Electronics and have them mod it for you. Or any of those other pedal modding places

[bemmis]

ok... mediocre news... this is getting to be more complicated than I thought it would be. I returned it with the mindset of getting the russian big muff, but I demoed a few others just to make sure. I ended up with the USA big muff. If you turn the tone down a bit it sounds pretty similar to a USSR big muff. But... when I got hame and tried it, I realized something: It sounded just like what I was looking for, but I really miss the rat. It sounds ideal but I just don't like it as much as the rat. The sound seems so average. Maybe in the future I'll buy another one, it really is good and really shoves pure rock in your ears, but there's no way I'll like that forever, I can totally see growing out of it. I think I'll take it back (again...) and keep the rat. Even if the fuzz factory sounds similar, I know I can surely get equally shredder tones out of the fuzz factory as I can out of the big muff, even if they dont sound the same.

I just love the rat. The mod idea is good. keeley only mods the pre-300000 serial number ones (MIA i think) and the Rat I had was 307 thousand something but there have to be some mods out there. I know the "reusch resistor snip" exists, maybe I'll rig up a toggle to swich between stock and mod... Whatever I do it will be with the rat though.

[hondo76]

bemmis good for man. for 15 u seem to be a very guitar smart guy.when i got my first guitar at 15 i turned all the tuners so thay lined up because it looked cooller that way.im just sad that a 15 year old is probly better than me.

[bemmis]

Thanks hondo.


Ok everyone. update. I got a new rat serial number 314,xxx so chinese again. not that it matters but this one has a misprinted label so the "A" in rat is filled in with white. I have already began modding it. I did a non-permanent "reusch" mod. (resistor snip) It actually doesn't bypass anything accept the 1 resistor which runs parallel to another. So instead of snipping the resistor I just connected a wire to the solder points of 1 resistor, bypassing it, and hooked up a toggle switch to the wire so when off the pedal runs stock ,and when switched it runs like the mod. It really doesn't do much. A tiny tiny bit more bite, and a different 60-cycle hum sound. It actully modulates a little now though. it sounds like a pan pipe. the only use ive found so far for it is doing the heart monitor noise to death (modulation + killswitch) into a song. It modulates form 0 distortion to about 3 o'clock and kind of inhibits playing, but at least theres a switch to turn it off. It sound so similar otherwise that I wouldn't be surprised if the switch itself has the same resistance as the resistor itself.

I might actually rig up a light set so drill holes in the case all over and maybe hook up led's withanother battery inside or something. feedback please...

[hamhock]

bemmis,
are you familiar with the analogman sunface bc-108?


it has great harmony central reviews too...
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/r...ace+BC108/10/1

im getting one of these for sure!!!...