Keeley Compressor on Musicians friend?? (with link)

Jenix · July 10th, 2008, 10:04 PM

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...sor?sku=150355

What??

I was browsing for a true by pass but affordable compressor, maybe mxr, bbe, and came across this. Frankly I'm a little disappointed. Does this make them not boutique? I know you keeley owners will probably disagree but in a thread awhile back we agreed that boutique pedals arent sold on large sites like musicians friend.

CatfishStudios · July 10th, 2008, 10:10 PM

They have been on there for quite some time..Keeley is pretty much standard fare..I mean..who hasn't heard of the Keeley Compressor? Not to say they dont work great. Bootique Smootique

hamish5178 · July 10th, 2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenix

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...sor?sku=150355

What??

I was browsing for a true by pass but affordable compressor, maybe mxr, bbe, and came across this. Frankly I'm a little disappointed. Does this make them not boutique? I know you keeley owners will probably disagree but in a thread awhile back we agreed that boutique pedals arent sold on large sites like musicians friend.

Who gives a flying you know what whether or not it's "boutique"?

Are you afraid the unwashed public might cop your tone?

I thought people liked these things because they were high-quality, not high-falootin.

Guitar_Ninja · July 10th, 2008, 11:10 PM

It's at least as good as the Boss Metal Zone. At least.

franchelB · July 11th, 2008, 12:17 PM

Keeley, along with certain other brands, are being marketed by Fender Music Distribution...(or something like that).
It's all about reaching a wider audience. And Fender's distribution market is way bigger than Keeley or even Taylor guitars for Taylor's european market. This way allows Keeley to concentrate more on building/customizing pedals rather than worry how to market their products.
As far as Musician's Friend is concerned, since they're owned by Guitar Center (who also sells Keeley pedals), the company has a huge buying power. And if I were a "boutique" pedal builder, I WOULD WANT Guitar Center to buy my inventory! Why would I just focus on a small market? There are numerous pedal builders out there...surely, it's either "feast or famine" for these guys. Given the choice, I'd rather "feast".

Brian blaut · July 11th, 2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenix

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...sor?sku=150355

What??

I was browsing for a true by pass but affordable compressor, maybe mxr, bbe, and came across this. Frankly I'm a little disappointed. Does this make them not boutique? I know you keeley owners will probably disagree but in a thread awhile back we agreed that boutique pedals arent sold on large sites like musicians friend.

I'm confused. Why are you disappointed? Do you like the Keeley pedal because it sounds good? Or just because its a well respected boutique "status symbol"? What does it matter where you can get them from? Plus, I really doubt that Keeley or Musiciansfriend care at all about the definition of what is boutique and could care even less of adhearing to said definition. All Robert Keeley wants to do is make well designed pedals out of quality parts and sell as many as he can. Good for him that MF wants to carry them.

Are you worried that this is the beginning of the end? That he will be seduced by the sirens of the mighty dollar signs and succumb to opening up his operation to start manufacturing on a bigger scale which often can introduce poorer quality? Or worse even, hiring out the manufacturing to cheap labor over-seas and possibly short-cutting the designs with cheaper parts and compromises to lower the bottom line? I doubt that. He's made such a name for himself undoing and improving those mistakes made by other manufacturers. I'm sure he'll keep his business within his own reach at all times.

getbent · July 11th, 2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franchelB

And if I were a "boutique" pedal builder, I WOULD WANT Guitar Center to buy my inventory! Why would I just focus on a small market? There are numerous pedal builders out there...surely, it's either "feast or famine" for these guys. Given the choice, I'd rather "feast".

The problem with going the 'volume sales' route is 1) Quality control 2) Brand dilution...

The folks who built the keeley brand (beyond robert himself) are guys who like premium tools and spend time in high end shops and discussing the products online. Because the items are considered premium and fairly rare, they command a higher price. GC and MF are mass merchandisers and while they do carry some high end items are the 'go to' guys for midline and budget products while for premium high end products folks go to local stores, high end stores or premium product websites like fatsound, geartoyz etc....

the risk Keeley takes on by selling in MF and GC is product fulfillment (can he make enough of them to fulfill demand) and the thought that his compressor is right next to mass produced boss and digitech units that are considered commodities. That is a huge risk imo and I notice that I've only seen the the 2 knob compressor on the sites... so maybe he is trying to do some product differentiation so that his brand isn't gutted.

The tool business is a classic study in brand dilution. There are several top brands that moved 'down market' and into big box stores and have been diluted enough that they are no longer considered high quality professional tools... but just another player in the midline high volume, lower profit game.

and last, the metrics. Lets say you sell your product off your own website for 229.00. Your cost (lets include shipping too, to make it simple) for each item is 89.00. You keep 140.00. But, by going with a mass merchandiser you have to 'tool up' to meet demand and you have to pay your distributor. Now, that same 229.00 item costs you 129.00. now you keep 100.00... not bad, but after a quarter or two, your distributor comes back to you and says... "you know, it is a tough market, we are more than twice what the other guys are for their compressors... we need to make some pricing considerations... lets split the reduction!" and you have a sale prices of 179.00 so that you are only twice as much as the other guy... now you are making 70.00 (I'm being nice and assuming a reasonable split) a box. You've cut your profit by half! you have to be selling at least twice as many units as you used to for the same profit!

to offset this, most companies look for cheaper manufacturing... which can lead to further Quality Control issues....

which is why sometimes selling at higher volume is a risky proposition... not to mention it begs the big question of "Does the average MF GC customer want a 229.00 compressor?"

We'll see over the next couple of quarters.

Jenix · July 11th, 2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatfishStudios

They have been on there for quite some time..Keeley is pretty much standard fare..I mean..who hasn't heard of the Keeley Compressor? Not to say they dont work great. Bootique Smootique

Almost anyone that works at guitar center hasn't heard of keeley.

I'm not disappointed I'm a little shocked. Next thing you know'll they'll be making them in China.

teleclem · July 12th, 2008, 04:47 AM

^^ i hope they don't.. :(

castpolymer · July 12th, 2008, 09:29 PM

I was actually in a local music store on Wednesday in my hometown of Edmond, OK. Mr. Keeley was in there buying a Custom Shop Lake Placid Blue Jazzmaster ( apparantly, he loves Lake Placid Blue ). He was actually talking a little about this very thread of selling in larger retailers. From the gist of the conversation, he is about as big as he wants to be right now. I got no indication from the conversation that he intends to outsource to a foreign company. If you saw his little shop of I - 35 in Edmond, OK, you would not worry about the quality dropping off. It is maybe 5,000 S.F. By the way, I just bought one of his Time Machines and it is awesome!

play_loud · July 13th, 2008, 12:02 PM

The fact that it is listed on Musicians Friend does NOT change the fact that it is priced at $249.00 US.

That is still more then the average-earning guitarist (ie. me) is willing to pay for a single pedal (especially when I can find a cheaper alternative that will do the job all the same).

Thus, it is still what I would consider to be 'boutique'.

Then again, what does that label mean anyways!?

Jenix · July 13th, 2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by castpolymer

I was actually in a local music store on Wednesday in my hometown of Edmond, OK. Mr. Keeley was in there buying a Custom Shop Lake Placid Blue Jazzmaster ( apparantly, he loves Lake Placid Blue ). He was actually talking a little about this very thread of selling in larger retailers. From the gist of the conversation, he is about as big as he wants to be right now. I got no indication from the conversation that he intends to outsource to a foreign company. If you saw his little shop of I - 35 in Edmond, OK, you would not worry about the quality dropping off. It is maybe 5,000 S.F. By the way, I just bought one of his Time Machines and it is awesome!

Are you saying robert keeley read this thread or was talking in similar terms to it?

if he saw it, wow just wow.

castpolymer · July 13th, 2008, 03:57 PM

No, I was not saying he was talking about this thread. I probably could have worded it better. During the conversation he was having with several of us, we mentioned his products being solid at GC, etc. He gave me the impression, without directly saying it, that his company's current volume was about as big as he felt comfortable with.

getbent · July 13th, 2008, 04:08 PM

good for him! I think Keeley stuff is terrific and I notice there are several keeley pedals on mf...

I hope his business goes just how he wants it... Quality, Quality goods at a fair price!

franchelB · July 13th, 2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by getbent

The problem with going the 'volume sales' route is 1) Quality control 2) Brand dilution...

The folks who built the keeley brand (beyond robert himself) are guys who like premium tools and spend time in high end shops and discussing the products online. Because the items are considered premium and fairly rare, they command a higher price. GC and MF are mass merchandisers and while they do carry some high end items are the 'go to' guys for midline and budget products while for premium high end products folks go to local stores, high end stores or premium product websites like fatsound, geartoyz etc....

the risk Keeley takes on by selling in MF and GC is product fulfillment (can he make enough of them to fulfill demand) and the thought that his compressor is right next to mass produced boss and digitech units that are considered commodities. That is a huge risk imo and I notice that I've only seen the the 2 knob compressor on the sites... so maybe he is trying to do some product differentiation so that his brand isn't gutted.

The tool business is a classic study in brand dilution. There are several top brands that moved 'down market' and into big box stores and have been diluted enough that they are no longer considered high quality professional tools... but just another player in the midline high volume, lower profit game...

which is why sometimes selling at higher volume is a risky proposition... not to mention it begs the big question of "Does the average MF GC customer want a 229.00 compressor?"

We'll see over the next couple of quarters.

http://www.robertkeeley.com/product.php?id=8

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...sor?sku=150355

Apparently, MF charges more for the same compressor as opposed to buying direct from Keeley. Quality control? Brand dilusion?? I doubt if Fender or Taylor guitars had QC or brand "dilusion" issues by allowing Musician's Friend to help them sell their products.

guit30 · July 25th, 2008, 01:56 AM

If you notice, they are always sold out. Keeley says he only has 25 employees, and since he started making the comp, he has made over 12,000, i do not know if that includes the 4 knob, which is supposed to be the same,but has much smaller pcb than the 2 knob, I got one to review, it was incredible, a full pcb card with both sides full of big film caps and nice resistors.I remember reading on the 4 knob something about the Keeley being distributed by Fender. Honestly, I love the 2 knob, just ordered one from the pro guitar shop for 229, with 45 day return policy. Most people buy from Keeley. Over the last few monthes I have been trying to find something close to the Keeley in Quality, but I could not, so I broke down and bought one
Jim

guit30 · July 26th, 2008, 11:52 PM

I just ordered a 2 knob Keeley comp and was expecting the same pedal like I reviewed for 229. It didn't even have that neat silver look, mostly gray. On the outside, no changes, open it up and you will see a mini pcb board with a new brand of ca3080e chip, it looked alot different. I think folks are running out of nos parts. This does not compress well, I used it on the same amp that I did the review comp and used the same guitar, sad, but I could not get those golden tones no more- Sending it back to where I bought it, maybe I'll try a Barber or T-Rex
Jim

Dogbear · July 27th, 2008, 12:54 AM

Saw the same pedal at the Sarasota, Florida Sam Ash for around the same price two days ago.........

Jenix · July 27th, 2008, 02:19 PM

they had them just on clearance for 189 a few days ago

guit30 · July 27th, 2008, 11:18 PM

Honestly,
I think that this is very sad, you take the best made pedal in the world for compression, put in a cheaper pcb, which degradates the sound ,and stop making the beautiful powdercoat it had? I don't get it. Won't people start to notice that it is not the same pedal, and the price stays the same. Musicians Friend had a bunch on sale for $175 last week. Just got a notice from pro guitar shop, I can send it back tommorrow. I wonder if he makes the originals for pro musicians?
Jim
PS- Anybody ever hear of a Barge Concepts Ross pedal or Moen's uni-comp? At least I still have my Hartman Compressor, a great Dan Armstrong clone, but I miss the Keeley that I had, it was the best tone that I had ever heard. Maybe they were having financial troubles?

TopHatTele · July 28th, 2008, 05:30 PM

On the upside...if the quality went into the crapper or the brand disappeared, at least the value of the "old original" pedals would increase (Way Huge is a good example).

reson8 · July 30th, 2008, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franchelB

http://www.robertkeeley.com/product.php?id=8

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...sor?sku=150355

Apparently, MF charges more for the same compressor as opposed to buying direct from Keeley. Quality control? Brand dilusion?? I doubt if Fender or Taylor guitars had QC or brand "dilusion" issues by allowing Musician's Friend to help them sell their products.

Dilution (per the original post) is a different word that delusion (the perjorative term I think you are using, albeit misspelled.) It's a fact - if the market floods with a product, the brand is diluted - basic supply and demand metrics.

And if you doubt that Fender or Taylor hasn't had QC or dilution issues by widening their market share, then that might be considered delusion.

Consider the average used prices of high production Taylors and Fenders - they are lower, relative to original sales price, than so called "boutique" builders. The same can be said for new guitars - Taylor and Fender guitars have a smaller markup for the dealer as they are so available - market dilution. In fact, a few years ago, dealers were so up in arms over Taylors lack of pricing enforcement, that they really had to crack down on dealers advertising below MAP. (In reality, they came out with a loud bark, but haven't really enforced this policy at all, over time.)

As to the issue of quality control - I can say that if one were to look at a representative batch of guitars from either maker, from an era with lower production numbers relative to sales, you will find that QC was quite a bit higher. Taylor has been cutting corners from as early as broad distribution became a concern. They thrive on efficiency over quality. They've redesigned their necks several times - "improvements" in production, for sure, but the end result is the company trying to strike a balance between their cost of business and the end product.

Production guitars are subject to market considerations as much as any other widget. There is nothing precious or romantic about it - it is what it is.

Does that mean that they make bad, poor quality guitars? No, not at all.

Does it mean that they have adopted a profit model that is more quantity driven versus value-added? You bet.

(I'm just picking on these two, as they were brought up in this thread. One needn't look too far in the guitar world to find even more glaring examples - a certain venerable builder with origins in Kalamazoo comes to mind...)

After all, those nice, affordable guitars made south of the border or overseas in the Pacific Rim are made out of concern for quality, right?

July 10th, 2008, 10:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jenix Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Illinois State University Age: 19 Posts: 303	Keeley Compressor on Musicians friend?? (with link) http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...sor?sku=150355 What?? I was browsing for a true by pass but affordable compressor, maybe mxr, bbe, and came across this. Frankly I'm a little disappointed. Does this make them not boutique? I know you keeley owners will probably disagree but in a thread awhile back we agreed that boutique pedals arent sold on large sites like musicians friend. __________________ USA Ovation * (Big Baby Taylor - SOLD) MIM Telecaster * Vox AC15CC Takamine Classical G series Martin 000C-16RGTE Aura Some people sing in the shower, I play guitar...

July 10th, 2008, 11:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
Guitar_Ninja Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 1,492 6 Photos	It's at least as good as the Boss Metal Zone. At least. __________________

July 11th, 2008, 12:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
franchelB Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Irving, United States of Texas! Age: 43 Posts: 1,862	Yes, Keeley, along with certain other brands, are being marketed by Fender Music Distribution...(or something like that). It's all about reaching a wider audience. And Fender's distribution market is way bigger than Keeley or even Taylor guitars for Taylor's european market. This way allows Keeley to concentrate more on building/customizing pedals rather than worry how to market their products. As far as Musician's Friend is concerned, since they're owned by Guitar Center (who also sells Keeley pedals), the company has a huge buying power. And if I were a "boutique" pedal builder, I WOULD WANT Guitar Center to buy my inventory! Why would I just focus on a small market? There are numerous pedal builders out there...surely, it's either "feast or famine" for these guys. Given the choice, I'd rather "feast". __________________ Feel free to visit my homepage! http://www.myspace.com/francisbalagtas

July 13th, 2008, 04:08 PM	#14 (permalink)
getbent Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Benito County, California Posts: 10,168 37 Photos	good for him! I think Keeley stuff is terrific and I notice there are several keeley pedals on mf... I hope his business goes just how he wants it... Quality, Quality goods at a fair price! __________________ 'never pet a burning dog'

July 25th, 2008, 01:56 AM	#16 (permalink)
guit30 Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Abington Age: 55 Posts: 387	If you notice, they are always sold out. Keeley says he only has 25 employees, and since he started making the comp, he has made over 12,000, i do not know if that includes the 4 knob, which is supposed to be the same,but has much smaller pcb than the 2 knob, I got one to review, it was incredible, a full pcb card with both sides full of big film caps and nice resistors.I remember reading on the 4 knob something about the Keeley being distributed by Fender. Honestly, I love the 2 knob, just ordered one from the pro guitar shop for 229, with 45 day return policy. Most people buy from Keeley. Over the last few monthes I have been trying to find something close to the Keeley in Quality, but I could not, so I broke down and bought one Jim __________________ DOD FX80B Compressor Hartman Compressor Jim's Country Reviews www.geocities.com/guit30

July 10th, 2008, 10:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
CatfishStudios Banned Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon , United States Age: 33 Posts: 727	They have been on there for quite some time..Keeley is pretty much standard fare..I mean..who hasn't heard of the Keeley Compressor? Not to say they dont work great. Bootique Smootique

July 12th, 2008, 04:47 AM	#9 (permalink)
teleclem Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Philippnes Posts: 264 27 Photos	^^ i hope they don't.. :(

July 12th, 2008, 09:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
castpolymer Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2008 Location: Oklahoma Age: 37 Posts: 514	I was actually in a local music store on Wednesday in my hometown of Edmond, OK. Mr. Keeley was in there buying a Custom Shop Lake Placid Blue Jazzmaster ( apparantly, he loves Lake Placid Blue ). He was actually talking a little about this very thread of selling in larger retailers. From the gist of the conversation, he is about as big as he wants to be right now. I got no indication from the conversation that he intends to outsource to a foreign company. If you saw his little shop of I - 35 in Edmond, OK, you would not worry about the quality dropping off. It is maybe 5,000 S.F. By the way, I just bought one of his Time Machines and it is awesome!

July 13th, 2008, 12:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
play_loud Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sydney Age: 19 Posts: 222	The fact that it is listed on Musicians Friend does NOT change the fact that it is priced at $249.00 US. That is still more then the average-earning guitarist (ie. me) is willing to pay for a single pedal (especially when I can find a cheaper alternative that will do the job all the same). Thus, it is still what I would consider to be 'boutique'. Then again, what does that label mean anyways!?

July 13th, 2008, 03:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
castpolymer Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2008 Location: Oklahoma Age: 37 Posts: 514	No, I was not saying he was talking about this thread. I probably could have worded it better. During the conversation he was having with several of us, we mentioned his products being solid at GC, etc. He gave me the impression, without directly saying it, that his company's current volume was about as big as he felt comfortable with.

July 26th, 2008, 11:52 PM	#17 (permalink)
guit30 Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Abington Age: 55 Posts: 387	Keeley Compressor downsizes PCB on 2 knob I just ordered a 2 knob Keeley comp and was expecting the same pedal like I reviewed for 229. It didn't even have that neat silver look, mostly gray. On the outside, no changes, open it up and you will see a mini pcb board with a new brand of ca3080e chip, it looked alot different. I think folks are running out of nos parts. This does not compress well, I used it on the same amp that I did the review comp and used the same guitar, sad, but I could not get those golden tones no more- Sending it back to where I bought it, maybe I'll try a Barber or T-Rex Jim __________________ DOD FX80B Compressor Hartman Compressor Jim's Country Reviews www.geocities.com/guit30

July 27th, 2008, 12:54 AM	#18 (permalink)
Dogbear Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 186 21 Photos	Saw the same pedal at the Sarasota, Florida Sam Ash for around the same price two days ago......... __________________ "Having a great day because the alternative is simply unacceptable" Dogbear

July 27th, 2008, 02:19 PM	#19 (permalink)
Jenix Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Illinois State University Age: 19 Posts: 303	they had them just on clearance for 189 a few days ago __________________ USA Ovation * (Big Baby Taylor - SOLD) MIM Telecaster * Vox AC15CC Takamine Classical G series Martin 000C-16RGTE Aura Some people sing in the shower, I play guitar...

July 27th, 2008, 11:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
guit30 Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Abington Age: 55 Posts: 387	Honestly, I think that this is very sad, you take the best made pedal in the world for compression, put in a cheaper pcb, which degradates the sound ,and stop making the beautiful powdercoat it had? I don't get it. Won't people start to notice that it is not the same pedal, and the price stays the same. Musicians Friend had a bunch on sale for $175 last week. Just got a notice from pro guitar shop, I can send it back tommorrow. I wonder if he makes the originals for pro musicians? Jim PS- Anybody ever hear of a Barge Concepts Ross pedal or Moen's uni-comp? At least I still have my Hartman Compressor, a great Dan Armstrong clone, but I miss the Keeley that I had, it was the best tone that I had ever heard. Maybe they were having financial troubles? __________________ DOD FX80B Compressor Hartman Compressor Jim's Country Reviews www.geocities.com/guit30

July 28th, 2008, 05:30 PM	#21 (permalink)
TopHatTele TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Paisley Country Posts: 52	On the upside...if the quality went into the crapper or the brand disappeared, at least the value of the "old original" pedals would increase (Way Huge is a good example).