MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay - WOW!

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by Tim Bowen

My initial plan for the MXR was for it to replace AD-80 for doubling and slap, and then utilize the additional 300ms for over-the-top stuff, as need arises. I always have a separate 600ms analog set for general purpose longer delay sounds.
I did dink with the pedal some more today. My experience with Maxon analog delays is that they have a very warm and round, unobtrusive sound, with a soft initial attack, as to the repeats. BOSS DM-2 and Echoczar have more of a filtered resonance thing happening (for lack of a better term, call it "trippy") with the repeats. At this point, I'm hearing more of a filter resonance thing in the repeats with the MXR. Sort of a well-behaved DM-2, but ruder than a Maxon.

Surprisingly, considering the 9V operation, the initial repeat with the MXR is very distinct and present for an analog, but not digital-typical sterile and pristine. With a Maxon AD-900, even hyper-wet mix settings are not rhythmically obtrusive, due to the soft attack. What I'll need to do with the MXR is to check it through pushed tube amps as hit by a boosted signal. It may be a matter of backing the MXR's mix down a bit, I'll get back on that.

I tweaked the internal trimmers today. Unless I'm missing something, the travel across the pots is incredibly subtle. Is this right?

This is EXACTLY how I see the CC, and the Maxon (AD999) and WHY the CC CAN'T replace my Maxon AD999. But the CC's still staying anyway... too cool to sell!

Yes, the internal trimmers are subtle, even when maxed.

I use the CC thru a pushed tube amp, so any of my above reviews would apply.

[Tim Bowen]

Ruger9, thanks for following up, particularly on the trimpots. I went back and read the whole thread again, and completely agree with your assessments.

Okay, so I've had my second rehearsal with the Carbon Copy. For the first one, I was tweaking the pedal constantly and getting on the nerves of my bandmates, as I was using the rehearsal as an opportunity to bench test (hey, it's better than doing it at a show). Didn't really connect with it, so I re-thought it before tonight's rehearsal. Backed way down on the mix, removed the modulated repeats. Much better, particularly for pronounced single repeat doubling and slapback. If I wanted more ambience on the longer delays, I kept the mix low and upped the repeats, which is an approach I've taken over the years with digital delays.

By the way, the following should read DM-2 instead of AD-80:

Originally Posted by Tim Bowen

My initial plan for the MXR was for it to replace AD-80 for doubling and slap, and then utilize the additional 300ms for over-the-top stuff, as need arises.

The amp I'm currently using at this rehearsal space is an AC15. I've found that a low wattage amp like the little VOX definitely appreciates the extra headroom of an Echoczar, AD-900, or DM-2. I'd say that the headroom of the MXR Carbon Copy is about on par with my Maxon AD-80; both can get a bit wiggy when hit hard with a boosted signal. Looking forward to seeing if the MXR's modulated repeats fare better with my higher wattage amps, as well as whether the wet mix can be upped a bit.

I'm wondering if the MXR is over-engineered to withstand a little extra juice (?). If so, I'll flip the underside DIP switch of my Voodoo Lab Pedal Power to 13.2V, and see if this causes a slight bump in headroom. However, I'm not going to try it until I hear something from somebody in the know, as I've no interest in frying those bucket brigade chips.

That's it for now, more later.

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by Tim Bowen

I'm wondering if the MXR is over-engineered to withstand a little extra juice (?). If so, I'll flip the underside DIP switch of my Voodoo Lab Pedal Power to 13.2V, and see if this causes a slight bump in headroom. However, I'm not going to try it until I hear something from somebody in the know, as I've no interest in frying those bucket brigade chips.

Hey, that's a VERY interesting thought... more headroom would make it a bit more digital sounding I'm guessing, (which most people no doubt don't want), but if I could get a little more headroom on the CC it could replace my Echo Park for the U2 delays. Hmm...

[Axis29]

By 'headroom', what do you guys mean?

[mkg]

Going along with what Tim said, I'm finding that keeping the mix low, around 10:00 or so, gives me the best sound for most applications.
Upping the mix works well for songs like PF's Run Like Hell.
ruger9, I set the mix at about noon for U2 stuff.
The more I use this pedal, the more I like it.

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by Axis29

By 'headroom', what do you guys mean?

The repeats degenerate LESS rapidly, which actually is sort of like making it sound LESS analog, which is not what we bought these for... just a thought that I might be able to replace my digital delay with the CC for U2 stuff. For the newer U2 stuff ("newer" meaning "Streets"/Joshue Tree etc.) I find the CC still just a bit too muddy... but that's a digital delay Edge uses, so ...

[hamish5178]

Hey everybody, I got one of these about two weeks ago, and guess what? I have a problem with it (i've already emailed MXR and will probably be mailing it back to them).

When I turn the delay time knob above 12 o'clock I hear a high pitched noise (like tinnitus or the sound a muted TV makes, not the oscillation). This happens with all my cables and even when my guitars volume is on zero and the pedal is OFF!

Anyone have any ideas?

[Tim Bowen]

Originally Posted by hamish5178

When I turn the delay time knob above 12 o'clock I hear a high pitched noise (like tinnitus or the sound a muted TV makes, not the oscillation). This happens with all my cables and even when my guitars volume is on zero and the pedal is OFF!

Anyone have any ideas?

No whine with my MXR, but I know what you're describing. I experienced the same thing when demo'ing a Carl Martin Delayla a few years back. I'm not sure what causes it.

[Tim Bowen]

Originally Posted by Axis29

By 'headroom', what do you guys mean?

Generally, headroom describes the relationship between bandwidth and distortion, or how much a signal can be pushed before it starts to clip/distort. In my earlier post, I referenced headroom with regard to both the pedal and the amp. This headroom yin & yang has been a huge factor in the amp/pedal combinations that I've settled in with over the years.

To compliment what ruger9 said, less headroom impacts the distortion level of the initial (loudest) repeat most obviously. When a delay has lower headroom (and voltage is a factor here), the character of the initial repeat can sound a bit ragged as hit with a boosted signal, especially as placed straight into a lower wattage amp (as opposed to a higher wattage amp, or being placed within an effects loop); I don't like the general character of delays placed within a loop (even though said approach is unquestionably cleaner/more pristine), which is why headroom has always been a big deal for me. If headroom is questionable, I always back off on the wet mix.

[Axis29]

Hey,

Thanks for answering my question Tim and Ruger9. I understand headroom with regard to amps (always have). I've just never really thought of it when it comes to pedals. I understand the relationship of signal processing... to some extent. I guess I've just never heard of it referred to as headroom. Makes sense though...

[Jean-Baptiste]

Originally Posted by Tim Bowen

Jean! Haven't seen you around much for a while, glad to see that you're still with us!

Thanks!! yeah, I've been trying to wean myself off these boards, salt, coffee, etc.. and I'm kinda an all-or-nothing type guy.. I'll probably be here the rest of the day (night?!).

Really appreciate your ongoing evaluation of the CC. Any final word on the headroom issue?

I'm an old hardhead who learns by experience, so, to expand a bit on mr.T's thorough & succinct definition of headroom, JohnF. (if you're still here); Walk into a local music shop & plug into an Electro Harmanix Deluxe Memory Man, grab a Les Paul (or anything w/medium/hi-output humbuckers) & hit a power chord.

Unless they've radically changed the design of the reissue since I got mine in the '90s. you should hear an awful sound - a gnarly distortion that's neither musical nor useful. 'Clipping' is the term engineers use, tho' I call it "`~?/"+!%^)(*&^"!! Pardon my language, but this french keyboard won't let me swear properly.

[Tim Bowen]

Jean, I've taken a self-imposed break break from gigs and recording for two weeks, but now it's "back on your head, break's over", back to reality, all that stuff... over the next week, the Carbon Copy will be on my my board for a full band job, a duo job, a couple of sessions, and whatever else comes up. I'll be back.

[btlnckr]

Originally Posted by hagstrom71

I forgot to mention.
The only thing I wish was that when the mix knob was all the way up that it would only have the delay signal rather than a mixed signal.
Otherwise, a very cool delay.

So are you saying that chorus modulation is happening when the mix is turned up. And you only want delay? That's one reason I sold my Memory man. If I turned up the mix, I got chorus also, it drove me crazy. Can you turn off the modulation & still use the mix knob?
Thanks fo any replies as I'm thinking seriosly about getting one.

Brian

[Axis29]

Originally Posted by btlnckr

So are you saying that chorus modulation is happening when the mix is turned up. And you only want delay? That's one reason I sold my Memory man. If I turned up the mix, I got chorus also, it drove me crazy. Can you turn off the modulation & still use the mix knob?
Thanks fo any replies as I'm thinking seriosly about getting one.

Brian

I believe he's saying, he wishes he could turn it up and get nothing but the delay signal.

You can run the delay with out a hint of 'chorus'... In fact, even with the modulation engaged, it's still not a chorus sound. It's more a simpler modulation to sound like tape echo. A very mild warble, maybe? It's not a strong effect at all. Even with it, the pedal doesn't seem to color your sound at all.

[btlnckr]

Thanks John, I think that just sold me!!!

Brian

[Wardpike]

Originally Posted by Axis29

n fact, even with the modulation engaged, it's still not a chorus sound. It's more a simpler modulation to sound like tape echo. A very mild warble, maybe? It's not a strong effect at all. Even with it, the pedal doesn't seem to color your sound at all.

This sounds fabulous! Now I'm wondering if I have room on my pedalboard for one! I'll have to take measurements and then inspect the GAS fund.

[Freight Twang]

Well , I got a CC today, and am blown away. I currently have a DL4, 2- FX90's, and a DR2, this smokes them all, run don't walk to get one.

[btlnckr]

Well Kids, I pulled trigger & called GC in Oxford Valley, Pa. They had one in stock which I had them hold for me I 'till I got there & Boy am I glad I listened to you guys!! I almost bought one of those Ar#&c pedals off of ebay. This CC is Killer!!...What he said, run-don't walk & get one!

Brian

[Tim Bowen]

Okay, the Carbon Copy has went along for the ride now at several band and duo live jobs, as well as at a couple of sessions.

On the headroom thing, the quality of tone of the repeats definitely fared better with amps of more substantial headroom than an AC15. To be fair, running an analog delay straight into a low wattage amp without hearing some clipping is not gonna happen, particularly with a delay priced at 150 bucks. Maxon AD-900 and Toneczar Echoczar of course have superior headroom, and the price of admission reflects as much.

The only session over the past couple of weeks that called for me to print any ambience with the track was for a lap steel thing, and I did try the MXR pedal. Unless I'm going for some sort of special effect, I typically want delay to be more felt than heard, regardless of the amount of wet mix. For what I was going for, the MXR imposed itself too much as an 'effect' in interacting with the initial/unaffected notes that I played, so I instead chose to cut with the AD-900.

Live, I've been subbing the Carbon Copy for my trusty old DM-2. The default applications here are slapback and doubling. While I still prefer the DM-2 for such, the MXR has definitely held its own. At last night's show, I set the MXR's delay time for maximum whenever a short delay wasn't needed. On a couple of occasions, I kicked it in on top of the Maxon (both delays set at 600ms), for when I definitely wanted the delay to be 'heard', and this was vibey and effective. And I did do the flying saucer sci-fi noises at one point with the MXR - it's not at all shy in this respect.

In a nutshell, not much new from me in relation to my earlier impressions. I still maintain that the MXR is one of the most impressive bang-for-the-buck boxes that I've encountered in quite some time. To my knowledge, 600ms of true bucket brigade chip analog delay within this size box is an unprecedented format, not to mention the price point. And it definitely sounds cool, vibey, and all that good stuff. For these reasons, I'll be hanging on to mine for while. Can a hardcore analog delay freak *do better*? Sure, but not at this price point, and not within this footprint size.

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by Tim Bowen

Unless I'm going for some sort of special effect, I typically want delay to be more felt than heard, regardless of the amount of wet mix. For what I was going for, the MXR imposed itself too much as an 'effect' in interacting with the initial/unaffected notes that I played, so I instead chose to cut with the AD-900.


I still maintain that the MXR is one of the most impressive bang-for-the-buck boxes that I've encountered in quite some time. To my knowledge, 600ms of true bucket brigade chip analog delay within this size box is an unprecedented format, not to mention the price point. And it definitely sounds cool, vibey, and all that good stuff. For these reasons, I'll be hanging on to mine for while. Can a hardcore analog delay freak *do better*? Sure, but not at this price point, and not within this footprint size.

My experiences exactly. Big +1. Excellent review.

[TY]

3 pages and no one has mentioned whether it will oscillate or not?


So, will it?

[red57strat]

Yes. It will oscillate wildly!

[DblStop]

I just got my CC at Guitar Center last week and I played 3 gigs with it this weekend and put it thru it's paces and it's a keeper on my board.I've gone thru 2 DL 4's just plain bad luck with Line 6.Just sold off my dd-6 it was a little too brittle sounding to my ear.Also canned the dd3 it was ok but yawn, you get the point.This little guy is here to stay on my board I love the warmth not brittle or harsh ,sounds like heaven thru my Twin Re-issue it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling lol!!!!I've had the T Rex dlay on my board for a while now and it gonna stay also,ilove the tap tempo feature on the T Rex,it's now being used for longer delays and the CC is great for the Brent Mason Chicken Pickin' stuff hope this little review helps.Mark Moree aka DblStop Soon 2 b Nashville Bound heee hawwww!!!!!!!