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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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First Build 5f1 fingers crossed

Ok here goes.

My first build will be a 5f1 circuit with 15 watt output.
I'm a working musician and need the extra push for gigs.

I'm gathering parts at the moment. I must say this has been difficult. Can't seem to find parts where I am.

Iv been speaking to some guys on here who have been very helpful.

I will need lots of help from you guys on here.

To start can anyone recommend good or the correct wire to use for the different sections in the amp.

Thanks in advance

Danny

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well very generally speaking, 5f1 would have been 18ga solid core, but people use several types, cloth covered, teflon, stranded, they all work.
I'm really interested to see how you're going to get 15w out of a 5f1 circuit.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Good luck with the build Danny!

Go to either Ampmaker.com or Modulus amplification for your wire, they do packs for tweed builds and are reasonably priced. In fact, make a parts list and order whatever else you need at the same time to cut down on postage!

Have fun with the build and post pics as you go.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Well very generally speaking, 5f1 would have been 18ga solid core, but people use several types, cloth covered, teflon, stranded, they all work.
I'm really interested to see how you're going to get 15w out of a 5f1 circuit.
6146, 6550, or 8417 tube and some big transformers.

Debatable if that's still a 5F1...
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 10:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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To better answer your questions about wire,
Heater wires are 18-20 ga solid core or stranded, and green in color. I like solid better, but that's just me.
Circuit wire in vintage amps generally speaking 20-22ga cloth covered, newer builds can be whatever the builder chooses, I was stuck on 20ga cloth covered, but after using 22ga telflon, I doubt I'll go back.
Generally speaking colors are yellow for signal, red for power, green for heaters, but again builders can be as colorful as they want to be, no hard rules that I know of.
Whatever you decide, there is plenty of help around here to get you going.
The better your pics the more help you'll get imo.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 02:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I haven't used them yet, but if you want teflon wire, paper in oil caps, carbon comp resistors, all from one place, have a look at hificollective.co.uk.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 04:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Wow thanks guys.
Regarding the 15 watts, I know it has been done, it may not be a 5f1 but is all about function for me, that extra headroom will be invaluable.

Thanks for the wire info, done some reading on the teflon and it seems good. Think ill stick with the correct colour for easy servicing.

I will post lots of pics.

Dan
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Old January 24th, 2013, 04:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Has anyone got a parts list, just in case I miss anything.

D
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Old January 24th, 2013, 06:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I can find 24 awg reckon wire in different colours.

Surely this won't affect the build?

D
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Old January 24th, 2013, 07:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by *DannyBoy* View Post
Wow thanks guys.
Regarding the 15 watts, I know it has been done, it may not be a 5f1 but is all about function for me, that extra headroom will be invaluable.

Thanks for the wire info, done some reading on the teflon and it seems good. Think ill stick with the correct colour for easy servicing.

I will post lots of pics.

Dan
You'll do better work without your fingers crossed.

It's like playin' jazz chords with your fingers crossed. I guess there are guys who can do it....


Power output and headroom aren't the same thing. 15 watts won't make a "5F1" play clean.


The amp won't make big power unless you feed it big power.

There may be little perceptible difference between 10 watts with an EL34 and 15 watts with a 6550.

Hiitin' the numbers:

Running a 6550 in Class A, 400v plate, 225v screen, fixed bias makes 20w output at max signal.

An EL34 is a little more forgiving. Max ratings are 800v plate, 425v screen. Wire it up like a big fat Champ witha 470 ohm cathode resistor. It will make over 10 watts at "Champ" voltages.


Use beefy wire if you're building a beefy amp. 22ga solid or 20ga stranded is nice.

18ga for PA filaments is a good practice.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 08:01 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Wire: http://www.ampmaker.com/store/Wire-Packs-PVC.html

Differant sized pre packed for differing amp builds
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Old January 24th, 2013, 08:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm sure in a few months ill understand what you are saying.

So I should just stick to original 5watt gear?

Can find the right gauges of wire, can't get teflon covered. Can only find copper in pvc (locally)
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Old January 24th, 2013, 08:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Sorry Dave1234 didn't see your post.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 08:32 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm sure in a few months ill understand what you are saying.

So I should just stick to original 5watt gear?
That depends on your preferred process.

Some people take it one step at a time and follow the "rules". Others let their reach exceed their grasp.

What's your goal? Loud 'n' clean?

There are easier ways to get there compared to makin' small amps bigger.


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Can find the right gauges of wire, can't get teflon covered. Can only find copper in pvc (locally)
Wire is everywhere. The whole world is connected with wire... for now. Open the hood of any old car or look underneath any old washing machine. Couple snips and you have enough wire for your next several years of amp building. Sure it's PVC not teflon. Don't go crazy with the heat and it works fine.

There are more amps wired with PVC than there are with teflon.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 08:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I dunno what my goal is now, for recording the "stock" champ is perfect even at some gigs with good onstage monitoring, some gigs I need abit more from the amp on stage to hear what I'm doing. I tend to play just on the edge of breakup with my vol rolled off, then pile it on for big parts.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 09:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Hey *DannyBoy*

I'm still kind of a newb, but had many of the same questions, and maybe a few misconceptions, a year or so ago ...

First off, you say you will gig with this amp, so you want something reliable. Generally speaking, Fender designed pretty reliable, giggable amps at several sizes and price points. Any departure from those designs often takes away from reliability, and also raises the price. Depending on the size of your venue, you have to decide your real power needs. A standard 5W 5F1 with slightly upgraded transformers, a larger cabinet, and an efficient 10" or 12" speaker actually makes quite a bit of sound. I speak from personal experience, and I got such advice from the good folks here. I use such an amp in a 100 square meter room with 80-90 people in it every week, and rarely get it past noon. I guess it also depends if the people listening are only listening to you and the band, or want to have some conversation, too.

If your really need the tweed sound, but louder, next step is probably a 5E3, somewhat more complicated, and more money. I built one of those, too! But as has been mentioned, the actual volume difference (using same size cab and speaker) is not 3 times. It's perceptibly only 20-30%. Personally, I like the 5W better, because I can get it closer to the sweet spot, dirty, but pleasantly dirty. If you want clean headroom, neither of these amps are your answer, and modding will just make them into a blackface or something else.

That said, I strongly suggest a 5F1 or 5F2 as a starting place. For a first build, these are perfect. And get a larger cabinet with a larger speaker, this will take them out of the 'practice amp' category.

Btw, you are looking for tweed sound, right? My 'other' experience is that none of the above are really suited for humbuckers and heavy metal. Blues and rock on single-coil guitars are where these wail!

Just an opinion or two.

(that'll be 2 yen, please )
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Old January 24th, 2013, 09:40 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I play in a 4 piece band and my guitar playing isn't the main attraction, but I like to have it cruncy and I love the tweed sound.
As long as its loud off stage through whatever PA.

Because we are a working recording and touring band we tend to spend a lot of time getting "sounds" just right and I change amps more than I change my clothes. The way I see it is if I build something I will want to keep it and use it as needed. Some gigs I won't be able to use it at all.

I like the sound of running it through a 12" in bigger cab.

BTW I draw the line at 1
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Old January 25th, 2013, 06:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I play in a 4 piece band and my guitar playing isn't the main attraction, but I like to have it cruncy and I love the tweed sound.
As long as its loud off stage through whatever PA.

Because we are a working recording and touring band we tend to spend a lot of time getting "sounds" just right and I change amps more than I change my clothes. The way I see it is if I build something I will want to keep it and use it as needed. Some gigs I won't be able to use it at all.

I like the sound of running it through a 12" in bigger cab.

BTW I draw the line at 1
Well, OK. I never worked so cheap!

This is a 5C1/5F2 head, and the cab is only a little smaller than a typical 2X12 ... One Jensen P12R speaker (1956) ... makes a fair bit of sound, takes pedals well, up to a certain point. Mic for PA, and you can make a lot of folks happy!



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Old January 25th, 2013, 07:06 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Very nice I like that very much. I may build 2 cabs one for standard 8" and one for 12", wood I can do, lol.

What would be very useful is build order, as in what order should I put the amp together. Circuit board first etc.

Dan
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Old January 25th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Take a tour through some of the builds on this forum and decide on your own strategy afterwards. You will find that there is no set order for builds, but you should plan it out before starting, so you know which components you will need at each point. Having a checklist for parts is a good idea too!
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