Boothill 5E3 Kit - arrived and started

[blueshawk100]

Just got my Boothill 5E3 Kit in the mail. I just ordered the chassis, and am planning on ordering the Triode transformer set, and someone's cabinet.

The kit seems to have very high quality parts and the chassis is AMAZING. I was wondering why the box was so heavy. It is made of super thick steel, probably thicker than the original, heavily plated and nicely printed. Really premium quality.

After talking with Daytona Dave and Weber I am going to try a Weber DT-12 speaker (Derek Trucks). I live in a condo, and CJ at Weber told me that he has one of these in his 5E3 and he really likes it. It is an inefficient speaker (unlike the original), ceramic magnet, with sweet sounding highs (not harsh). To me these are all important. I want to be able to get the distortion without cranking it up and sounding loud. Also got an attenuator from Boothill which should help that also.

I got most of the components on the board today. Got some of the wires on.
Does anyone have a picture of the wiring on the back of the board? It looks like some of the wires go horizontally to many posts on the board and I'm wondering the best way to do that. One wire or several shorter ones?

[picknpluck]

Here is mine. Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic. If you're talking about bridging the posts at the top right area of the board, I used multiple sections of smaller wire. I also covered up all my solder joints on the back of the board with electrical tape to prevent any potential shorts. The kit comes with stand offs, but I didn't want to pull the board after it had already been installed in the chassis and wired up.

[andyfromdenver]

Welcome Blueshawk :)
I'm not sure how you would use just one wire, or if I understand you correctly, but just use as short a wire as you can to jump those underboard turrets. Notice how on some of PnP's wires they bend out of the way of a turret between, that's a good idea, from personal experience I've accidentally melted an under board wire that was making contact with a lug I was heating on top (is that confusing?). If you look at my Anders 5e3 build, you'll see I did a lot of the under board, above board. That was personal preference, Fender had a brief period of above board wiring that inspired me.
Lastly, take a good pic of your under board before you put it all together, it'll give you some piece of mind if you should need to troubleshoot later without having to second guess mistakes under there.
Good luck!

[blueshawk100]

I guess what is confusing me is how the grounds at the top of the board are handled. Weber shows them going to a brass plate, which seems to act as a common ground. Triode's schematic shows a wire connecting the grounds on the back of the board.

I think Boothill recommends a 'ground bus' a piece of copper wire, that was included that acts as a common ground for the jacks, pots and connections at the top of the board for grounds on some of the turrets.

Another question I have is about the tube sockets. Should I install them first, or solder them first and then attach them to the board later?

Boothill suggests mounting all of the pots and jacks on a cardboard template to make the soldering easier and then transferring it to the chassis later. This sounds reasonable. It seems like you could do the same thing with the tube sockets on the other side of the board. Make a template mount them, and solder the wires to the board.

[andyfromdenver]

Originally Posted by blueshawk100

I guess what is confusing me is how the grounds at the top of the board are handled. Weber shows them going to a brass plate, which seems to act as a common ground. Triode's schematic shows a wire connecting the grounds on the back of the board.

I think Boothill recommends a 'ground bus' a piece of copper wire, that was included that acts as a common ground for the jacks, pots and connections at the top of the board for grounds on some of the turrets.

Another question I have is about the tube sockets. Should I install them first, or solder them first and then attach them to the board later?

Boothill suggests mounting all of the pots and jacks on a cardboard template to make the soldering easier and then transferring it to the chassis later. This sounds reasonable. It seems like you could do the same thing with the tube sockets on the other side of the board. Make a template mount them, and solder the wires to the board.

mount the tube sockets, I don't think you can physically wire them before you attach them. Bad idea jeans :)

Well, I went the run a wire for ground route which works, many others do the bar buss. May as well do that, since it's in the kit.

Here's a lil step by step:
Do your board at any time with free flying leads off the ends approx 3-4" (err on the side of too long, can cut later), do your pots and jacks at any time, on a cardboard template is smart, keep out of chassis!
Mount your trannys, (some do this first) mount your tube sockets, run your heaters and make em look good! (tight wrap, in phase (meaning the wire that went to pin a on one power tube goes to pin a on other power tube etc. that way theoretically the phase inverter can cancel any induced hum is the reasoning i've read), out of the way of sensitive signal wires.

Then put your board in, then pots and jacks and wire to pins pots and jacks.
That's how the pros do it :) I guess....

[charisjapan]

Originally Posted by blueshawk100

I guess what is confusing me is how the grounds at the top of the board are handled. Weber shows them going to a brass plate, which seems to act as a common ground. Triode's schematic shows a wire connecting the grounds on the back of the board.

I think Boothill recommends a 'ground bus' a piece of copper wire, that was included that acts as a common ground for the jacks, pots and connections at the top of the board for grounds on some of the turrets.

Another question I have is about the tube sockets. Should I install them first, or solder them first and then attach them to the board later?

Boothill suggests mounting all of the pots and jacks on a cardboard template to make the soldering easier and then transferring it to the chassis later. This sounds reasonable. It seems like you could do the same thing with the tube sockets on the other side of the board. Make a template mount them, and solder the wires to the board.

Hey, Blueshawk!

Welcome to the 5E3 club

I did a Triode kit first, 2nd was Boot Hill. Dave's ground bus works better, IMHO, but make sure you keep it pretty close to the board, or it will touch the input jacls. I just use a short piece of 18g wire from the top of the turret to cradle it, soldered, then snipped off the excess. It only needs to be 2mm or so from the turrets.

Never tried the Weber plate, but if you use star washers on pots and jacks, they will all be well grounded to the chassis, then the ground bus needs only a connection to one of the input jacks. (I used star washers on switches, too, so they won't loosen up)

Install tub sockets first, then wire to them after you finish the board and mount it. I wired my pots on a template as he suggested, and connected them last.

Have fun, be careful, and good luck!

charisjapan

[blueshawk100]

Hi charisjapan,
On Dave's video he seemed to have 2 ground busses. One for the power supply and the other for the amplifier. That was on a champ in his video. Is that what you did?

Hi AndyfromDenver,
Thanks for the step by step part. I'll try it. Sounds logical. Never built anything that wasn't on a PCB before, so it is good to know how to proceed.

Larry

[charisjapan]

Originally Posted by blueshawk100

Hi charisjapan,
On Dave's video he seemed to have 2 ground busses. One for the power supply and the other for the amplifier. That was on a champ in his video. Is that what you did?

Hi AndyfromDenver,
Thanks for the step by step part. I'll try it. Sounds logical. Never built anything that wasn't on a PCB before, so it is good to know how to proceed.

Larry

Larry,

Here's what I did on the 5E3. First pic, you can see how I connected all to one bus except the first filter cap (far left, cut off in this pic), which went to a separate chassis ground, along with the power cathode and PT center tap. You can also see where I connected wrong and fixed. Btw, I used a bit larger gauge copper wire.

2nd photo is back of the board. And yes, some of those wires were very close to being too short! Give yourself a little more than I did...

3rd photo shows my chow mein (actually, yakisoba) mess with VVR, which I have not yet fixed. Yet another If you're ever going to hook up an external speaker, I strongly suggest a 4/8 ohm switch, if your OT supports it.

I have no noise issues at all with this grounding scheme, FWIW.

Best to you!

[blueshawk100]

Thanks for all of the Pictures. They will be a big help! The components in mind look to be about the same.

I was going to get the VVR circuit, but I asked about the attenuator. I guess with that you don't need the vvr and you still get the sag. He sent me a really nice unit in a metal tin with a knob and an input and output jack. You can connect it between the output and the speaker, or remove it, if you are playing where you need the volume.

I have also decided to try an inefficient speaker that sounds good on these amps (DT-12) to help for home use. I have read warnings on the Weber site about using the attenuators. You can burn out your tubes faster because you are running them at full throttle, if you have the attenuator cranked high. I hope to find a lower setting that will work.

Oh - one more question. I notice the kit has some green wire that is heavier than the rest. Is that for the HV going to the tubes?

thanks for all of your help, Guys!
Larry

[blueshawk100]

Does the orientation of the pots and jacks matter? I am thinking of following the weber diagram, which seems to agree with Triode's as well.

[hackworth1]

The green is for your heater/lamp wiring. The heater circuit is referred to as filaments or fils on the layout sheet. You've been given good guidance by our friends.

In the 5E3, populate your board and wiring. Check all joints. Tug on them. You need hot solder and strong joints.

Concurrently, solder your ground bus to the third filter cap turret. You can bend the bus or use a bit of wire to run it about 3/16 of an inch from that turret. The bus can "straddle" the edge of the board. Solder the bus to the ground points along the way as you meet the first cathode resistor/cap on the far right. Leave 2.5 inches of bus wire that will later be bent to meet the upper right hand input jack's ground tab.

The grounds on the power side require no bus. The first and second filter cap grounds are connected by a jumper on the top or bottom of the board.

I use a piece of the long lead from a filter cap. wrap it around and solder it to the two turrets on that ground side.

Make a cardboard template that mimics the location of your jacks and pots.
Temporarily secure the pots and jacks to the template. Wire them as shown on the layout.


Whenever you can, get some pics up.

[hackworth1]

Those pesky back of the board connections require due care. Hot solder must "flow".

Please understand that I am not directing you to use a lot of solder. A small amount will do. But it must be hot enough to amalgamate the metals of the wire and the turret.

When it flows, you can see it happening. It is a wonderful scientific phenomenon.

You must be sure that your connections will not "pull out" when you grip it tightly in your fingers - choke up on it - tug it firmly.

I tell you this b/c it is one of the more common problems I find - the back of the board connections come loose from cold solder joints.

[hackworth1]

It is important that the orientation of the "bottom" input jacks do not interfere with the bus. You must **** them so that they cannot short out on the bus.

Even if you use very short wire runs on these jacks, there is generally suffient wire length to rotate them 180 degrees as needed.

There is plenty of room for the "top" two jacks to go in any arrangement you deem to be most convenient and practical.

[blueshawk100]

Wow. I just discovered the ceramic gold plated tube sockets for the big tubes. Nice!

Thanks Dave, hackworth1. I have learned the hard way about cold solder joints. Now I heat the metal and let the metal melt the solder, instead of the iron. I know what you mean by the flow. It flows nicely on these turrets when the heat is right.

[blueshawk100]

The large star washers must be for the various jacks and a switch?

[blueshawk100]

Trying to attach photo of what I've done so far. Cut a resistor too short, ordered another. Added ground bus.

[hackworth1]

Originally Posted by blueshawk100

The large star washers must be for the various jacks and a switch?

Jacks, yes. Might be some for pots. Switches no. Your board looks good. A shot of the back of it would be helpful. Here is a good build pictorial for you to check out:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-bro...struction.html

[blueshawk100]

I just did the back. Still need to add some wires to the front and jacks,pots, etc

[hackworth1]

Looking good. You need a 4 inch green ground wire on the last turret (far left) on the grounds side. Solder it in the top of the turret. In the hole. This will serve as your motherboard High Side ground. - Power Tube Cathode resistor/bypass cap, First and Second filter cap. The three gang terminal strip will be bolted under a PT bolt. This ground wire will get soldered to it.

[blueshawk100]

Hi Hackworth1,
So there are 3 big black capacitors. With them on the left side of the board, the leftmost one gets a green wire ath the top (-) side, and is tied to the 25UF's post, grounding it.

The rightmost big black cap is attached to the copper bus bar and tied to the center black cap? yes?

The net effect is that the preamp section is grounded with the pots and jacks and the Powertube section is grounded to the chassis.

I see Triod and weber have slightly different grounding schemes.
Larry