Supro Thunderbolt clone?

[jaydawg]

Have any of you guy or gals built a straight up Thunderbolt clone? I've been entertaining the idea lately but there is very little trace of any cloning going on out here in cyberspace. I've of course found the schematics but no info on cabinet dimensions or chassis dimensions. Mercury Magnets has a set of clone trannys but I wounder if they are necessary? They were cheap amps to begin with so why use highend trannys?

Any how, just wanted to see if anyone has been down this road already. Or maybe see if there are any Thunderbolt owners who could help with some info.

Here are a couple things to check out-
http://www.angelfire.com/mech/beansa...ms/S6420TR.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRAJq...layer_embedded

[Groovey Records]

hope this helps a little
a converted head

Controls:


Guts:

[Groovey Records]

Chassis

Supro Thunderbolt Basket Case Bottom of page


http://www.collinsamps.com/st.html

[Groovey Records]

Top two are the same Amp Bottom picture another

[Groovey Records]

This one I own definitely worth hearing

Loving my LesQuire Jr through this un

[jaydawg]

Thanks for the pics Joseph. I'm glad you're digging the Lesquire!

I'm surprised no one has done the Thunderbolt yet. It's such a storied amp and beyond that it sounds great!

[Cap'n Kier]

aarrgh I'm wanting to build a Thunderbolt now as my first tube amp :D

Some great stuff there Joseph, although some of those photo's aren't a Thunderbolt?

The website with the chassis re-build was fantastic though, cheers!

I've found this site where somebody made a clone of one their own :

http://www.geocities.com/insp/SUPRO6420.html

...not the best site in the world, but some GREAT info there! pretty much enough to build your own (I hope!)

I'm gonna price everything up before I do more - decided whether to go original style or (try to) make a layout of my own... loads to think about!

[jaydawg]

If you do, make sure you keeps us up to date on the project.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by jaydawg

I'm surprised no one has done the Thunderbolt yet. It's such a storied amp and beyond that it sounds great!

I'm not surprised. It's a point to point rat's nest inside. Everything has to be correct on the terminal strips, everything has to be correct at the sockets. The opportunities for errors are numerous. The lead dress is sloppy. Supro would use 18" of wire when 2" would do.

[Groovey Records]

Glad to see the Cap'n on deck


Thought it best to post what I had and let Jason sort it out


Yep The converted head is not a Thunderbolt and the TopHat is a Supro clone but not of the Thunder Bolt


but the OP didn't have much info and was looking for a answers to a few different Questions


Since the last post I learned Bruce Zinky ex Fender Custom Amp Shop President now owns the Supro name and make a few amps under that Name .

I don't think they are straight clones on anything but his own interpretation.

I may be wrong on that - it wouldn't be the first time

Check it out

The Strange Brew Builder's Co-op philosophy is like a fello Tele lover's here at TDPRI

Share what you know-Learn what you don't ;)

[jaydawg]

Originally Posted by muchxs

I'm not surprised. It's a point to point rat's nest inside. Everything has to be correct on the terminal strips, everything has to be correct at the sockets. The opportunities for errors are numerous. The lead dress is sloppy. Supro would use 18" of wire when 2" would do.

I disagree. I don't know how many point to point amps you've worked on but to me this looks dead simple! The layout is not bad either.



Now this is what a point to point rats nest looks like.



And as far as opportunities for errors, those will exist no mater how you build your amp.

Do you have any example of Supro sloppy lead dress? 18" of wire, really? I would love to see some examples to back up your point.

[Groovey Records]

Rat's nest 18"

[jaydawg]

Originally Posted by Groovey Records

Rat's nest 18"

Joseph, we're talking about Supro's not Silverface Fenders.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by jaydawg

I disagree. I don't know how many point to point amps you've worked on but to me this looks dead simple! The layout is not bad either.

I've worked on enough Supros, Valcos, etc. to know what I'm talking about. Follow along: If someone were to offer a kit the benchmark for a kit is to make it as close to the original as possible. The orignal PTP layout would be a PITA to wire unless it's 1962, you're sitting over at Supro and you wire the same rat's nest layout over and over. If you were to offer a PTP Thunderbolt kit customer support would drive you nuts IMO. Thus no Thunderbolt kits.

Getting a PTP layout right from scratch can be a challenge. You know how it goes, build MKI, realize it could be better, build MKII. By the fifth version or so lead dress starts to look decent if you know what you're doing. Do it over and small epiphanies occur resulting in minor changes on Amp 20, Amp 50, etc.

Originally Posted by jaydawg

Do you have any example of Supro sloppy lead dress? 18" of wire, really? I would love to see some examples to back up your point.

C'mon. Look at the Supro preamp in the pics above. 6" of wire out to the terminal strip, 6" back... o.k., it's not 18". But then the PA is on a seperate chassis. There's a whole bunch of wire running over to the connector inside the preamp chassis. There's 18" of wire to connect to the PA chassis, easy. Fender did away with a seperate chassis in what, 1950? Marshall never used a seperate chassis.

[jaydawg]

Originally Posted by muchxs

I've worked on enough Supros, Valcos, etc. to know what I'm talking about. Follow along: If someone were to offer a kit the benchmark for a kit is to make it as close to the original as possible. The orignal PTP layout would be a PITA to wire unless it's 1962, you're sitting over at Supro and you wire the same rat's nest layout over and over. If you were to offer a PTP Thunderbolt kit customer support would drive you nuts IMO. Thus no Thunderbolt kits.

Getting a PTP layout right from scratch can be a challenge. You know how it goes, build MKI, realize it could be better, build MKII. By the fifth version or so lead dress starts to look decent if you know what you're doing. Do it over and small epiphanies occur resulting in minor changes on Amp 20, Amp 50, etc.



C'mon. Look at the Supro preamp in the pics above. 6" of wire out to the terminal strip, 6" back... o.k., it's not 18". But then the PA is on a seperate chassis. There's a whole bunch of wire running over to the connector inside the preamp chassis. There's 18" of wire to connect to the PA chassis, easy. Fender did away with a seperate chassis in what, 1950? Marshall never used a seperate chassis.

Go back and read the original post. Did I ask about a kit? I said I was surprised no one was building a clone, not offering a kit.

And no, the power amp is in the same chassis.

Anything else you'd like to contribute to this thread?

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by jaydawg

Go back and read the original post. Did I ask about a kit? I said I was surprised no one was building a clone, not offering a kit.

If you got into a clone it would be a good idea to have an original right in front of you. It wouldn't take you long to realize there's a lot more wire there than necessary.

Originally Posted by jaydawg

And no, the power amp is in the same chassis.

As shown above?

[lamotta77]

Originally Posted by jaydawg

Have any of you guy or gals built a straight up Thunderbolt clone? I've been entertaining the idea lately but there is very little trace of any cloning going on out here in cyberspace. I've of course found the schematics but no info on cabinet dimensions or chassis dimensions. Mercury Magnets has a set of clone trannys but I wounder if they are necessary? They were cheap amps to begin with so why use highend trannys?

Any how, just wanted to see if anyone has been down this road already. Or maybe see if there are any Thunderbolt owners who could help with some info.

Weber Speakers was supposed to do a kit for the Thunderbolt, but I don't know whatever became of it.

Anyway, being a former Thunderbolt owner myself, I would advise against having a clone built or building one yourself. I believe it's rather pointless to sink that amount of time and cash into a clone when the real deal are still pretty readily available. On eBay, good working Thunderbolts routinely sell for around $1000 (unless they're near mint cosmetically and then they're around $2000) and I see them pop up on there all the time.

Think of it this way, you'd have a REAL one and one that will definitely hold its value and very likely only continue to go UP in value over the years unlike a clone which will only continue to go DOWN in value.

The real deal is where it's at, my friend. Here's a pic of my old one, by the way. Sorry, I never took note of the dimensions.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by lamotta77

Anyway, being a former Thunderbolt owner myself, I would advise against having a clone built or building one yourself. I believe it's rather pointless to sink that amount of time and cash into a clone when the real deal are still pretty readily available. On eBay, good working Thunderbolts routinely sell for around $1000 (unless they're near mint cosmetically and then they're around $2000) and I see them pop up on there all the time.

There was one on Boston Craigslist for $300 a while ago. It sold in minutes...

[lamotta77]

Originally Posted by muchxs

There was one on Boston Craigslist for $300 a while ago. It sold in minutes...

Unbelievable! Obviously, that individual had no clue what they had there.

[Cap'n Kier]

Originally Posted by lamotta77

Anyway, being a former Thunderbolt owner myself, I would advise against having a clone built or building one yourself. I believe it's rather pointless to sink that amount of time and cash into a clone when the real deal are still pretty readily available. On eBay, good working Thunderbolts routinely sell for around $1000 (unless they're near mint cosmetically and then they're around $2000) and I see them pop up on there all the time.

Think of it this way, you'd have a REAL one and one that will definitely hold its value and very likely only continue to go UP in value over the years unlike a clone which will only continue to go DOWN in value.

For me to buy a real one would cost alot of money... there's one on eBay (an Airline one, in London) for £850 - and here that's alot of money, and even more so for me and my small crying wallet (albeit for something that doesn't show up over here very often)...

And I actually enjoy making things myself, and this circuit looks like it could be a good first amp build for me - one which I'd probably keep for myself rather than hold on to and sell...

Could it be possible for you to perhaps record yours or even a youtube video? I've only heard it on that one YT video, and would like to hear a bit more of that clean sound etc