Best affordable mics for varied acoustic recordings, but especially classical guitar?

wcap · July 29th, 2007, 04:19 PM

(I have skimmed through this forum looking for microphone information and have gotten some useful insights. None-the-less, I'm still feeling in need of some guidance. I'm hoping my question is not too redundant....)

What microphone would you recommend for recording classical guitar in particular (but also some other acoustic instruments) at home? I am reluctantly resigned to having to pay at least a couple hundred dollars for a microphone, but I'd rather the cost of this excursion into home recording not get too out of control.

Other instruments I play that I'll want to record are 5-string banjo and mandolin (I also play a Tele and a Strat, but not as much). Other instruments played in our house that we might want to record at some point include violin, flute, recorder, concertina, piano, trumpet, trombone, harmonica, and drums (might want to record some vocal at some point too, but this is not that likely).

But really, classical guitar (and banjo) are my top priorities at the moment.

I imagine that different microphones have their strengths, and that an ideal microphone for acoustic guitar may or may not be the ideal microphone for other purposes (which is why I'm thinking/hoping my inquiry might not be totally redundant!)

Based on suggestions over at the Acoustic Heaven forum, I'm thinking of getting an M-Audio interface to use with my Macintosh (which has Garage Band installed). The Rhode NT1 was also suggested as a good mic to get. Most reviews I have read suggest it is a great mic (but one guy complained that it does not last long and ends up sounding tinny???). Are there others that are obvious choices that I should be considering?

Tim Armstrong · July 29th, 2007, 05:46 PM

I'm extremely happy with the MXL 603s small diaphragm condenser mic. It does a really good job on acoustic guitar and mandolin, and I use two of them as drum overheads with great results.

Cheers, Tim

wcap · July 29th, 2007, 06:01 PM

Thanks. Do you have any acoustic clips posted anywhere that were recorded with this mic?

Tim Armstrong · July 29th, 2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

Thanks. Do you have any acoustic clips posted anywhere that were recorded with this mic?

Here are three, recorded three years ago before I quite understood how compressors worked (so please overlook any compressor pumping!). Also, I'd note that these are 96 Kbps mp3 files, so they aren't particularly high fidelity...

First is "Journey To The Center of Your Heart", which is a full band production. The acoustic 12-string (both rhythm and the lead break) was recorded with an MXL 603s/

Second is "In The Window", which is mostly acoustic guitar and upright bass. The acoustic guitar is a lovely Martin D-41, recorded with that mic.

Third is "Press On", also D-41 plus a nice National Style O resophonic guitar, recorded with that mic.

My brother is the guitarist and singer in these selections!

Cheers, Tim

wcap · July 30th, 2007, 01:24 AM

These are all great. Thanks!

These remind me how much I want to get a good steel string guitar before my hands are too old to use it. I love my classical, but a good steel string just rings (My current steel string is junk).

And then there is the my 12-string obsession I had for awhile, and a dobro could be fun......These clips are giving me a GAS attack.

I especially liked the second one. This is one of my favorite styles of playing. Do you know what chords are in this one? It sort of sounds like maybe an open tuning too???...drop D tuning?

And back to the point of this thread...the sound quality is good.

What sort of situation were these recorded in? A special room, your living room, or what? I imagine that a good microphone is only part of the equation for getting good recorded sound...a good mic in the wrong room probably ends up sounding awful.

One final question that will reveal how very little I know about this sort of thing: Can you explain what compressors are? Are you talking about file compression, or something else? And "compressor pumping"???...what does that mean???

Sorry for so many questions. Thanks so much for your help and generosity.

Tim Armstrong · July 30th, 2007, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

These are all great. Thanks!

These remind me how much I want to get a good steel string guitar before my hands are too old to use it. I love my classical, but a good steel string just rings (My current steel string is junk).

And then there is the my 12-string obsession I had for awhile, and a dobro could be fun......These clips are giving me a GAS attack.

I especially liked the second one. This is one of my favorite styles of playing. Do you know what chords are in this one? It sort of sounds like maybe an open tuning too???...drop D tuning?

Glad that you liked them! It's been a while, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was in dropped D...

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

And back to the point of this thread...the sound quality is good.

What sort of situation were these recorded in? A special room, your living room, or what? I imagine that a good microphone is only part of the equation for getting good recorded sound...a good mic in the wrong room probably ends up sounding awful.

One final question that will reveal how very little I know about this sort of thing: Can you explain what compressors are? Are you talking about file compression, or something else? And "compressor pumping"???...what does that mean???

We recorded these in my brother's house. His living room really sounded good (cathedral ceiling, nice natural sound) which certainly helped a lot! I think we did the last song in one of the bedrooms (the one we used as "Control Room"). Too bad for us that he moved!

Compressors are devices (or in this case recording program plug in effects) that take a signal and reduce its dynamic range, so that the soft parts and the loud parts are closer to each other in volume. Used correctly, they can make a track jump out of the mix in a pleasing manner. Used incorrectly, they can make things ugly! I used them with a heavy hand and only the haziest understanding of their function on that project, and it kind of messed with things, particularly the cymbals...

Cheers, Tim

wcap · July 30th, 2007, 03:34 AM

Thanks so much for your replies to all my questions.

If I can bother you with one more....

...In general, what sorts of rooms have seemed to work best for you for recording acoustic guitar?

Big rooms? Smaller spaces?

Rooms with carpeting and curtains and lots of upholstered furniture that absorbs sound and prevents echo effects (e.g. a crowded living room or a bedroom), or really empty rooms with bare floors and walls (e.g bathrooms would probably be the extreme in this regard)?

Or, is it just not this simple?

I realize that I'll have to use trial and error to work this out for myself, but some general suggestions for starting out would be much appreciated.

p.s. Compliment your brother on his singing and guitar playing for me!

fingers23 · July 30th, 2007, 07:11 AM

It really is by trial and error..........as to how much natural resonance and reverb you want on your recordings.....as well as the styles that you are playing..........

I know acoustic is slightly different, but I have just read a book on the Stones and when recording Exile on Maine Street, Charlie played the drums in a stair well.....mics were placed in all sorts of places to capture "the" sound...When recording in Paris, they all preferred the sound of the practice room compared to the studio itself..........Brian May (Queen) sometimes recorded with the amp and mic in a broom cupboard, sometimes threw a coat over the amp..........

When recording my acoustic for the first time, you can hear it on 'Keef n Cocaine' on Myspace, address below, and I was amazed at how much a difference of 1/2 inch (approx 1cm) would make on the overall sound..........

You could of course record it as dry as possible and then add something to it later....................

So much depends on the style and of course how YOU want it to sound.

It is all part of the fun of recording.........

Tim Armstrong · July 30th, 2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

Thanks so much for your replies to all my questions.

If I can bother you with one more....

...In general, what sorts of rooms have seemed to work best for you for recording acoustic guitar?

In my somewhat limited experience as a recordist, I've found that the best place to record anything, particularly acoustic instruments, is where they sound best to your ears. My brother's former living room was a nice big space with furniture and archways and paintings on the wall, so there weren't a lot of large flat surfaces. Everything we recorded there sounded great. Now we have a garage studio/practice space that likewise has some wall alcoves and some acoustic treatments, and it sounds pretty good.

We tried the bathroom, and it was too reverb-y...

Cheers, Tim

wcap · July 30th, 2007, 07:23 PM

Thanks for the tips!

weelie · July 31st, 2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

What sort of situation were these recorded in? A special room, your living room, or what? I imagine that a good microphone is only part of the equation for getting good recorded sound...a good mic in the wrong room probably ends up sounding awful.

I found this interesting, do not know if it is valid though (I am a recording newbie, just recently bought a Zoom H4 to do some solo fingerpicking recordings): http://www.eltjohaselhoff.com/record...tic_guitar.htm

wcap · August 1st, 2007, 04:07 AM

Thanks for the link. I found the article to be interesting, and I'm finding the rest of this guy's web site interesting as well.

July 29th, 2007, 04:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Best affordable mics for varied acoustic recordings, but especially classical guitar? (I have skimmed through this forum looking for microphone information and have gotten some useful insights. None-the-less, I'm still feeling in need of some guidance. I'm hoping my question is not too redundant....) What microphone would you recommend for recording classical guitar in particular (but also some other acoustic instruments) at home? I am reluctantly resigned to having to pay at least a couple hundred dollars for a microphone, but I'd rather the cost of this excursion into home recording not get too out of control. Other instruments I play that I'll want to record are 5-string banjo and mandolin (I also play a Tele and a Strat, but not as much). Other instruments played in our house that we might want to record at some point include violin, flute, recorder, concertina, piano, trumpet, trombone, harmonica, and drums (might want to record some vocal at some point too, but this is not that likely). But really, classical guitar (and banjo) are my top priorities at the moment. I imagine that different microphones have their strengths, and that an ideal microphone for acoustic guitar may or may not be the ideal microphone for other purposes (which is why I'm thinking/hoping my inquiry might not be totally redundant!) Based on suggestions over at the Acoustic Heaven forum, I'm thinking of getting an M-Audio interface to use with my Macintosh (which has Garage Band installed). The Rhode NT1 was also suggested as a good mic to get. Most reviews I have read suggest it is a great mic (but one guy complained that it does not last long and ends up sounding tinny???). Are there others that are obvious choices that I should be considering?

July 29th, 2007, 05:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 9,659	I'm extremely happy with the MXL 603s small diaphragm condenser mic. It does a really good job on acoustic guitar and mandolin, and I use two of them as drum overheads with great results. Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

July 30th, 2007, 07:11 AM	#8 (permalink)
fingers23 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: On the Edge......... Posts: 262	It really is by trial and error..........as to how much natural resonance and reverb you want on your recordings.....as well as the styles that you are playing.......... I know acoustic is slightly different, but I have just read a book on the Stones and when recording Exile on Maine Street, Charlie played the drums in a stair well.....mics were placed in all sorts of places to capture "the" sound...When recording in Paris, they all preferred the sound of the practice room compared to the studio itself..........Brian May (Queen) sometimes recorded with the amp and mic in a broom cupboard, sometimes threw a coat over the amp.......... When recording my acoustic for the first time, you can hear it on 'Keef n Cocaine' on Myspace, address below, and I was amazed at how much a difference of 1/2 inch (approx 1cm) would make on the overall sound.......... You could of course record it as dry as possible and then add something to it later.................... So much depends on the style and of course how YOU want it to sound. It is all part of the fun of recording......... __________________ 52 Re-issue Vintage Natural with 'Lollar' H/B, Affinity Butterscotch with 'Seth' H/B, Epiphone Sheraton in Ebony PRS Santana, Peavey Strat, Brian May Red Special, 1979 Yamaha FG345II acoustic, 1976 Kimbara 12 String acoustic, 5 String Banjo www.myspace.com/rocknrollshaman

July 29th, 2007, 06:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Thanks. Do you have any acoustic clips posted anywhere that were recorded with this mic?

July 30th, 2007, 01:24 AM	#5 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	These are all great. Thanks! These remind me how much I want to get a good steel string guitar before my hands are too old to use it. I love my classical, but a good steel string just rings (My current steel string is junk). And then there is the my 12-string obsession I had for awhile, and a dobro could be fun......These clips are giving me a GAS attack. I especially liked the second one. This is one of my favorite styles of playing. Do you know what chords are in this one? It sort of sounds like maybe an open tuning too???...drop D tuning? And back to the point of this thread...the sound quality is good. What sort of situation were these recorded in? A special room, your living room, or what? I imagine that a good microphone is only part of the equation for getting good recorded sound...a good mic in the wrong room probably ends up sounding awful. One final question that will reveal how very little I know about this sort of thing: Can you explain what compressors are? Are you talking about file compression, or something else? And "compressor pumping"???...what does that mean??? Sorry for so many questions. Thanks so much for your help and generosity.

July 30th, 2007, 03:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Thanks so much for your replies to all my questions. If I can bother you with one more.... ...In general, what sorts of rooms have seemed to work best for you for recording acoustic guitar? Big rooms? Smaller spaces? Rooms with carpeting and curtains and lots of upholstered furniture that absorbs sound and prevents echo effects (e.g. a crowded living room or a bedroom), or really empty rooms with bare floors and walls (e.g bathrooms would probably be the extreme in this regard)? Or, is it just not this simple? I realize that I'll have to use trial and error to work this out for myself, but some general suggestions for starting out would be much appreciated. p.s. Compliment your brother on his singing and guitar playing for me!

July 30th, 2007, 07:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Thanks for the tips!

August 1st, 2007, 04:07 AM	#12 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Thanks for the link. I found the article to be interesting, and I'm finding the rest of this guy's web site interesting as well.