External compressors..........

[fingers23]

On the basis of a previous thread regarding the use of compression........I am using a little on the way in and then can give it a little more once it is recorded, if necessary.

I have found the advice of great use and the quality of my recordings has gone up as a result..........But it has set me thinking..........can I use an external compressor in a live gig situation on vocals?

If so can you recommend a 'value for money' one and where would you put it in the chain.........before the mixer, I assume, but......as we have three vocalists how do I manage that situation......three(?) compressors? Or three vocals into a small mixer and then the compressor and then into the main board?......or?????????

What do the 'Pro's' do?

[woodman]

what kind of board? does it have a loop for external effects?

[KC]

the "pros" (I used to be one) generally use one compressor per channel. Very occasionally, I'd use a compressor on a subgroup, like a horn section or a key submix. And sometimes you'll run into a sound system that has a limiter across the whole program, but this is more for the protection of equipment and audience than to improve the sound.

the problem in a live situation is that a highly compressed vocal is much more likely to feed back than an uncompressed vocal.

[Ben Harmless]

Originally Posted by KC

the "pros" (I used to be one) generally use one compressor per channel. Very occasionally, I'd use a compressor on a subgroup, like a horn section or a key submix. And sometimes you'll run into a sound system that has a limiter across the whole program, but this is more for the protection of equipment and audience than to improve the sound.

the problem in a live situation is that a highly compressed vocal is much more likely to feed back than an uncompressed vocal.

KC pretty much nails it. I'd just add that though you've got to be careful with compression so as to prevent feedback, often slamming a vocal with compression is the only thing that can reduce the dynamic range of a crazy screamo-core/metal-dude screamer enough to actually get it heard above the mix. Those guys have no concept of dynamics, and they expect their heartfelt, super-poetic, deeply personal whisper/whining to be as loud as their badass, oppressed suburban, previlaged-class screaming.

Sorry. Did I come off as a bitter sound guy there?

Compressor reccomendations will vary depending on how much control you want. I'm someone who wants every possible control on a compressor, but in the lower (sub $200) price range, you're not going to find a ultra-controllable compressor that sounds very good at all. I've worked in several clubs that had Alesis 3630s, ($100 for two channels with lots of LEDs and knobs) and while I've used them to effect (as described above) they barely cut it.

Honestly, I'm learning to lighten up a little - at least in live settings. If I were to do it today, I'd bring my secret-weapon compressor to pretty much any live gig, and strap it right across the lead vocal. Ready for this? It's a no-longer-made dbx 163x. Controlls? One slider labled compression, and an output volume pot (not even really a knob). $40.

Others that I might be willing to use, and which are still made, from Musicians Friend's selection:

-Dbx 166XL - A solid device. Listed on even much higher-end riders like the ones that came into my old gig with the $1 million system. If I were outfitting a club, these would be the "budgetest" compressors I would choose. 2-channels, $250.

-Dbx 266lx - I own one. In a pinch, I'd use it live - definantly before a 3630. Not on bass though. It has weird artifacts I can't get rid of when used with bass.

Dang. I guess there's not much other than Dbx that I'd reccomend for budget items. The only other thing I'd consider, and only if you're willing to pay $200 per channel, is a FMR RNC (Really Nice Compressor). I'd feel safe in calling it the current budget compressor of choice for many studio pros.

As far as how to run it, you'll need some sort of insert jack in the board. The vast majority of compressors are designed to work with line-level signals, and a mic needs a mic preamp to get the signal to that level. Many mixers will have an insert jack, which is a 1/4" TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) jack. It sends the signal out via the tip conductor, and brings it back into the system via the sleeve. An insert cable will be nessecary as well, which looks like a big "Y" cable, but really seperates the send and return portions of the insert connector into two 1/4" plugs to go into the input and output of your compressor (or other FX processor). If the board does not have an insert jack, the only way you can run a compressor properly on an individual channel is to use a pre-fader aux send to get the signal into the compressor, and then return the signal to the line-in jack of a second channel. The second channel's fader is now the vocal fader for the compressed vocal. The original channed will only give you the uncompressed vocal. Incidentally, mixing these two can be cool, but I'd stick with the compressed version for now. If you're curious, google "parallel compresson" or check out "the exciting compressor."

The last thing to remember is that in order to use compressors to improve music rather than ruin it, you should have a real understanding of the concepts of gain and compression. Otherwise, things are going to get ugly real quick. Of course, how is anyone to know if they have a "real" understanding? How do I know if I have a "real" understanding. Well, you don't. All you can do is get to the point where you can recognize the effects that your knobs have on the sound, and turn 'em so they make it better, not worse.

And never hesitate to ask lots of questions.

I absolutely did not start off to write this much...

[kludge]

If you want an inexpensive compressor that sounds GREAT, get a FMR Audio "Real Nice Compressor". Stereo, $175 new. It just stomps anything else I've heard short of far more expensive pro-quality studio compressors.

Keep in mind though that its case is not at all robust, and it uses a wall-wart for power. But at least in my home studio, it's the best money I ever spent.

[woodman]

the dbx 266xl Ben recommended is a pretty impressive lo-budget item -- i've used one for seven years, both in a primitive home studio and live. it's stereo, so each PA channel is covered.

the rub with using it live is, you gotta have a sound man that understands compressors at the board out in the room. in my experience, you don't have a prayer in hell of getting it right if you're mixing from the stage. unless you have an outside ear to get it dialed in, odds are you're going to do more harm (mush) than good.

[getbent]

Ben Harmless,
The Alesis has the reputation of being a pretty heavy knee compressor... is that what you've found or is that mostly hype? I think the next really fun DIY market is the hand made tube compressor.... they aren't that tough to make and the 'personalization factor' would be really high... In the old days lots of studios made their own... with folks making their own amps and stompboxes it just seems like that should be next...

[Ben Harmless]

Originally Posted by getbent

Ben Harmless,
The Alesis has the reputation of being a pretty heavy knee compressor... is that what you've found or is that mostly hype? I think the next really fun DIY market is the hand made tube compressor.... they aren't that tough to make and the 'personalization factor' would be really high... In the old days lots of studios made their own... with folks making their own amps and stompboxes it just seems like that should be next...

I think a heavy knee could possibly describe some of the general uselessness of the 3630. Like I said, I've used it to effect, but it takes a lot of doing to get it to work with a given source. It's not like some of the BSS units I've worked with that really grab a sound and make it yours to mold.

I agree with the DIY comp thing. I'm somewhat interested myself, but I'll go ahead and tackle my amp project first - if I ever get even that far...

[CSS]

I second this one! Also, in a previous post the question was asked about an effects loop. Compressors don't go there. They go directly in line as in INSERT.

Originally Posted by kludge

If you want an inexpensive compressor that sounds GREAT, get a FMR Audio "Real Nice Compressor". Stereo, $175 new. It just stomps anything else I've heard short of far more expensive pro-quality studio compressors.

Keep in mind though that its case is not at all robust, and it uses a wall-wart for power. But at least in my home studio, it's the best money I ever spent.

[Ben Harmless]

Originally Posted by CSS

I second this one! Also, in a previous post the question was asked about an effects loop. Compressors don't go there. They go directly in line as in INSERT.

Weeeeeelllll....... An insert is pretty much an FX loop. It puts the compressor in line between the mic preamp and the mix bus. If one were using a comp in a guitar rig, the FX loop would be exactly where it would go. On a mixer, an insert is the most common of several ways to use a compressor, but there are others.