"Reamping" Guitar tracks

[WickedGTR]

Don't know if anyone here is doing this, but since it's a guitar oriented recording forum I thought I'd pass this along....


Been fiddling around while working on my home-recorded 'opus'.

I have a noise problem where I record (in the dining room) and it's difficult to record guitar amplifiers. Especially if you're like me and want to record 100 takes of something. I've been using the Line6 Toneport during the writing and scratch track process (which I've gotten some decent sounds with), but I wanted the option of recording my good Fender amps....Since it's a guitar oriented record, I want the guitars to sound great.

After researching a few different possibilities (isolation cabinets etc.) I decided to try ReAmping. Basically it means that a guitar track is recorded direct, and later run back thru an amp, which you can mic up and record back into the track.

It gives me the flexibility to record when and where I want to, and also gives me more flexibility to get the perfect amp and mic and room combination- even switch amps after the 'performance' is recorded...

The trick is to record a good clean direct guitar track (thru a good Direct Input box) and then taking the guitar track from the recorder, and reducing the line level to instrument level, so it won't overload the input of the amp.

After some digging, I found one good box which handles both the DI chores and the reamping- I got the LittleLabs RedEye box:

http://www.littlelabs.com/redeye.html



It's a high quality direct box that's optimized for instruments- and handles the reamping as well. There are other products on the market to do this, but after a lot of digging around, I decided to go with a premium all in one solution.

Basically, now I set up two recording tracks- one for the Line6 box (stereo), and one for the direct signal.

I plug the guitar directly into the Redeye input, and it sends a balanced direct guitar signal into my recording interface.

The RedEye also has a 'instrument thru' output on the back, which I connect to the Line6 box...The Line6 is recorded onto the stereo track.

NOTE: The Redeye is a 'passive' direct box, which just changes the instrument level from your pickups to a balanced +4 output. You need to use a preamp to boost the signal to a decent level for recording. I am just using the preamp in my interface to boost the signal to a decent level- you could also use an outboard mic preamp.


The reason I'm still using the Line6? You need to hear a 'live' feeling amp and effects while recording, and the direct signal is very dry, and sterile sounding. There is also a time lag (latency) with digital recorders when you need to patch thru to hear what you are playing...

The Line6 box gives me the feel of playing thru an amp without latency- you could use any amp sim (or even a real amp) fed from the 'instrument thru' to do the same thing.

Since I do like the tones I'm getting from the Line6, I go ahead and print it on a stereo track. It also gives me a decent sounding track to listen to while evaluating and editing performances. I can also blend the Line6 tone with the reamped track if I choose to later. Best of both worlds.

Anyway, been testing it out and it really works well- the amp sounds exactly like me playing thru it while reamping. I had the 'eureka' moment- suddenly everything worked just like I hoped it would and now I'm wondering about how many ways I can exploit this new (to me) technique. Turns out that a lot of professional engineers have been doing this for years.

One more thing- because of the latencies inherent in digital recording, the reamped tracks will have a slight delay after being printed to disk. You'll need to find the time of the latency and 'nudge' the reamped track forward- there's various techniques for doing this, depending on your recording software (or recorder).


This is all much more difficult to explain than to do (hence the long post...).

I know Hank didn't do it this way, but it works (damn good!)


-Jw

[Tedecaster]

That sounds like a pretty cool set up. I heard "reampimg" mentioned & it made sense, but hadn't really given it much thought. Is it really that close (to the real thing)? I would have thought there would be something lost in translation.

Your using the Line 6 as a monitor reminded me of one of the other threads ("Wet or Dry ?") Recording dry leaves all your options open but it was also pointed out that the "effected" sound you hear as you play, can really influence the way that you play. A balancing act, I guess, but if you have a rough idea where you're headed, it sounds like your method gives you the best of both worlds.

I'm just getting going with all this so I appreciate the insights. Keep 'em coming!

[Tim Armstrong]

That looks like a great box, James!

Re-amping is great as long as you have something like that to send a guitar-level signal (as opposed to a line-out strength signal) to the amp, since obviously you'd want the amp to see the signal just like it was coming from your guitar pickups!

Cheers, Tim

[WickedGTR]

Originally Posted by Tedecaster

Is it really that close (to the real thing)? I would have thought there would be something lost in translation.

Yeah- it sounds exactly like the real thing, because it basically is.

Contrary to modern folklore, a guitar pickup is not an extremely Hi-Fi device. It's a magnet with some wire wrapped around it. Plug your guitar directly into a recorder sometime to see what your guitar actually sounds like....it's a pretty dull thing. The amp brings a lot to the game.

24 bit audio (if recorded cleanly) has PLENTY of dynamic range and fidelity to capture a guitar pickup.

[Tedecaster]

Originally Posted by WickedGTR

Plug your guitar directly into a recorder sometime to see what your guitar actually sounds like....it's a pretty dull thing.

I was fooling around with a new interface the other night & did exactly that (with a guitar) just to have a signal & you're right, it's pretty flat.

I can definitely appreciate what an amp bring to the table, particularly for guitar.

I played bass on most of the recordings I've had anything to do with & I never liked the bass sound direct, though all the engineers thought it was the best way to go. Less trouble for them, I guess. The last project we finally double tracked the bass, amp & direct, a huge improvement.

[WickedGTR]

This method also works great with bass.

For that matter, anything you have recorded can be reamped. Synths, harmonicas, electric pianos, voices- all take on a new character when they go thru a guitar amp-

You can also use the reamp method to send your source thru guitar pedals....

[Tedecaster]

Yeah, I'm there. Infinite combinations, kind of boggles the mind, doesn't it?

[WickedGTR]

Well, for starters I can eliminate all of the amps I don't like.

Then I'm left with a Twin reverb and a Princeton Reverb.

[Tedecaster]

I'm kind of thinking beyond just guitar. Gearing up for a project with a guitar/harp player-singer. Possibilities for the harp, keys, etc. & I've got a few amps around.

I also started a 2-pc Leslie (no amp) project a few years back, but I only finished the top half. Full-size Leslie guts in the top, smaller styrofoam rotor & 10" in the bottom (same as a Fender Vibratone) pulled from a Hammond. I'm thinking that it would be fun to try with the reamp method.

Got to get off my butt.

[WickedGTR]

Radial makes a reamp box for about $100 (street).

http://www.radialeng.com/re-prormp.htm

It's just the reamp - it's not a direct box. They make good stuff too.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by Tedecaster

Yeah, I'm there. Infinite combinations, kind of boggles the mind, doesn't it?

And THAT is the problem !, when you are recording yourself it's so tempting to fiddle and then fiddle a bit more and then perhaps just fiddle a teeeny bit more and then come in tomorrow and fiddle again !!
I guess thats when you need to engage your 'producer' type of brain and say "right, thats it, leave it"

Having said all that -- it does sound interesting doesn't it ?

[Tedecaster]

I guess a producer is a producer, no matter the discipline.

When I was doing props & sets for film, & you asked a producer how they wanted this or that detail, the reply was "I want it done!".

[Big John]

Originally Posted by Tedecaster

I guess a producer is a producer, no matter the discipline.
When I was doing props & sets for film, & you asked a producer how they wanted this or that detail, the reply was "I want it done!".

Haw haw haw de haw !

Some i know would say, " I dont know, what do you think"

[Tedecaster]

Originally Posted by Big John

Some I know would say, " I dont know, what do you think"

That's what the production designer would say before the producer showed up!

[Dave_O]

that's pretty cool. I tried to do the re-amping thing on some basslines on my last recordings, but ran foul of the level gremlin, so I re-recorded the bass. But that little sucker would have answered my prayers, and saved me 2 days......