In what sequence do you like to record?

[Tedecaster]

First, thanks Paul, for starting this one up. I look forward to picking everyone's brain!


Anyway, I have only recorded on other people's projects, never on my own.

I have recorded (usually bass);

Live, but rhythm tracks only

To guitar scratch track, with drums & without drums

To keys only

To final tracks (sans bass)

What order do you guys prefer to use? (Assuming you wanted a full band)

Do you like to use a click track?

[StuH]

Roughed out rhythm first with some lead over top just for a trial.
If it sounds okay I'll set up a click track, redo the guitar parts, bass next, and spruce up the drums last.

[TeleConvert]

I usually record a scratch rythm gtr with a click track. Then I go back and do the drums and bass. Once I have something I like, then I re-do the rythm gtrs and add leads.

[Tim Armstrong]

When recording bands, I really like to record as full a band track as possible the first time around, at least drums, bass, one guitar and a scratch vocal. Then I'll add stuff, replace stuff, double stuff, etc.

On some of the internet collaborations I've done, we'll start with a click track and a scratch vocal/guitar track, and build from there. It's always amazing to me when we end up with what sounds like a live recording!

Here's a song I wrote and played bass on last year that we did that way:

http://www.crystalclearrecording.com...Interstate.mp3

Cheers, Tim

[petebradt]

We're recording an album and we're recording live to eight track, four drums, bass, keys guitar and scratch vox. But it's live.

Solos, real vocals and other fixes are added later. I've got to learn better how to double stuff up.

Tim, when you "double" vocals, do you re-record, or just copy and paste onto another track? I'm using PTLE7 and doubling would simply be pasting the original performance (with or without tweaks) into another track.

Non-doubled vox.

[nylonstrings]

For us new to recording guys, please define "scratch" in this context.

[maestrovert]

Originally Posted by nylonstrings

For us new to recording guys, please define "scratch" in this context.

for instance, if i've got a good song idea and it's fairly well ready, i'll record myself singing and playing acoustic guitar....then when i go into the overdub phase, i can scratch this track, freeing it up for more overdubs....

[petebradt]

Originally Posted by nylonstrings

For us new to recording guys, please define "scratch" in this context.

A vocal track that, unless you're really lucky, will only be used for cueing off of, something to give you the "feel" of playing with the band. We use a Beta 58 for scratch vox so there's no chance that track will be used for final vox, we use LDCs for that.

HTH

[fezz parka]

Hey Brother Pete, just wanna remind you that Dave Edmunds vocal on Sweet Little Lisa is a scratch track. Use a good mic, you never know what'll be a keeper.

[maestrovert]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

Hey Brother Pete, just wanna remind you that Dave Edmunds vocal on Sweet Little Lisa is a scratch track. Use a good mic, you never know what'll be a keeper.

+1 & AMEN !

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by petebradt

Tim, when you "double" vocals, do you re-record, or just copy and paste onto another track? I'm using PTLE7 and doubling would simply be pasting the original performance (with or without tweaks) into another track.

I think of "doubling" as recording a second track alongside of the first one, the same part but a different performance. I don't do it all the time, but it can be a cool effect, as so many Beatles songs show!

I do also like to copy/paste a track, particularly a vocal track, and compress the snot out of one of the two tracks. I'll put reverb on the uncompressed track, and mix them to taste. Works great at making a vocal both focused and big...

Cheers, Tim

[Don Miller]

When I played with the comedy group we recroded a CD..our scratch tracks was a click track and me playing straight strumed-no fancy stuff rhythm guitar...with the thought the guitar parts would be re done...

Every one of my "scratch" tracks ended up in the final mix...once the songs were built on top of them, and it was time to redo them I decided that I couldnt do them any better...they were recorded with a good mike and balanced and such and it wouldnt have been worth the time or effort to try and nail them again.

I played my leads and fills on top of them with the same guitar set up abiout the same way and we did a sub mix of that into the scratch tracks so they werent so plain...but the basic track was otherwise unaltered..

Sometimes the first run thru is the best....

[JohnSS]

If I'm recording with other musicians, I prefer to cut drums, bass and rhythm guitar live at the same time. The groove is definitely better when musicians are interacting. If I'm doing all of the instruments myself, I usually program a drum machine and record rhythm guitar simultaneously with the drums, then add lead vocal, bass, keys, lead guitar and background vox in that order. Other guitar parts or synth parts for finishing touches come last before the mix.

[Skully]

When I record myself, I start of by recording a scratch vocal and Variax acoustic guitar part "live" to a simple MIDI drum pattern. I use the Variax so there's no vocal bleed on to the guitar track, which enables mean to better adjust the levels of the individual tracks as I record other parts and, if I so choose, keep the "acoustic" guitar for the final mix. Usually, I replace it with a real acoustic.

I next record live drums, lead guitar or perhaps a keyboard part. I try not to record the bass part until I've got the drum track finished. I then re-record the vocals and everything else. Things get wiped and re-recorded to create more sonic space and a sense of musical give and take.

[alabubba]

I find what has worked for me is to first lay down a decent acoustic rhythm guitar track, then several tracks of percussion, then bass, then perhaps some electric guitar tracks, mandolin, etc. After the music is close, I'll then work vocals. Things can get pretty free-form since it's just me in my "spare" time.

[bobthecanadian]

For me it all has to do with what is ready to go. If there is a riff or rhythm that's itching to get out, it goes down first.

If a song has already been written it's time to turn on the click track and lay down a scratch track of the vocal and a rhythm instrumet (usually guitar but maybe piano).

Other times I will write the rhythm parts (using MIDI and virtual instruments) and then write on top of them.

The process isn't exactly the same for each piece of music. However, I find that it is easier to make a good song better when I have a skeleton to flesh out.

Bob

[Tim Bowen]

Depends on the personnel and project involved. If the goal is to get the sound of a band (as opposed to the sound of a collective of seasoned session pros - yes, there's a difference) to tape, then all depends upon the drummer, for me.

With one of my projects, the drummer is very forceful and,... kindly put, "improvisational" - we like to say that he's never played the same song once. While this can sometimes be an arranger's worst nightmare, it's also a potential recipe for drum tracks that are far cooler than any producer can dream up by design. Anyway, we track this guy first and foremost. Sometimes we record live just to get the interaction between the players, but we're mostly after what fires off this drummer. All else that winds up as "keepers" constitute gravy.

In another band project, the drummer is very studied and focused and historically educated, and he can do 'second line' N'Awlins, rockabilly, double shuffle, jazz ballad ("making soup"), two-step, metal, what-have-you, at the drop of a hat. He prefers for the foundational rhythm instruments to be tracked and down before he cuts, and he hates working with a click. So, that's what we do.

Those are band situations. If I'm charged with producing and arranging the sessions from scratch, I want click (*), scratch vocal, and scratch guitar or piano. Bass guitar, for me, is the glue that makes everything stick, and in the 'non-band' scenario, I'm prone to track or assign this chore late in the game, which goes very much against the grain of popular opinion. Again, much depends upon the relationship with the drummer, and the vibe sought.

A text that I often call upon is Everything You'd Better Know About The Record Industry by Kashif (thanks again, KL). The thing about trying to assess in advance, and/or plan a course of action, is that no two intelligent persons will have exactly the same M.O. For instance, Kashif likes to have the rhythm section down before cutting vocals. Kashif comes from a strong R&B background, and is no doubt influenced by the "snakepit" environment of classic Motown recordings - for which, the musicians were typically given a chord chart and asked to supply a groove, upon which the artist (vocalist) was to embellish. Beautiful formula, particulary if you've at your beck and call the likes of James Jamerson and such. Those guys churned out hits on a daily basis, like punching the clock. Such is the rare example of the groove being so incredibly strong that the song had no choice but to follow.

Personally, I've no choice but to build up from the vocal. Backing vocals are a separate aspect. A producer/engineer that I work with does not want to cut embellishments and fills and textures (the gooey stuff on top) until ALL of the vocals are down, including "ooohs and ahhhhs", as he doesn't want instrumental fills to step upon them - which I can respect. I personally think of "ooohs and ahhhhs" as being akin to, say, a keyboard or strings wash; In other words, they're either on or they're not, and it doesn't matter where within the recording process that they fall, although their relationship to the mix certainly matters.

Which brings me to my last step. Harmony vocals that match the lead - not the chordal "ooohs and ahhhs", but the stuff that matches the idiosyncrasies of the lead. I suck as a backing vocalist, but I cut these parts all the time. It's even tough for many great lead vocalists to cut great sounding backing vocals. For me, this in particular is what separates the great records from the good records.



(*) Click is mostly a good and useful and dependable tool. As to popular song forms, I find it to be a bit of a buzzkill with slow-to-medium 12/8 grooves.

[JohnnyCrash]

The boring old way.

Drums first.

After that, anything and everything is fair game. Generally rhythm guitars and then leads, unless my girl (the bassplayer) is not busy with school or work.

Sometimes I'll completely trash the rhythm guitar tracks and redo them all over again, but often I am so fastidious on laying down the perfect lead that it has been honed to exactly what I want, so lead guitars often stick around.

[woodman]

in a studio, i try to get the drums, bass and rhythm git down for a little bit of "live" groove feel... but that happens once a year at best these days.

at home it's drum machine, rhythm, bass, then vocals before any fills go on. add garney to taste, mix and serve.

[refin]

Originally Posted by woodman

in a studio, i try to get the drums, bass and rhythm git down for a little bit of "live" groove feel... but that happens once a year at best these days.

at home it's drum machine, rhythm, bass, then vocals before any fills go on. add garney to taste, mix and serve.

Me too.

[eddiewagner]

1. find drum loop that fits the idea
2. dirtrack guitar and vocals
3. better vocals
4. better guitars
5.even better vocals
6. even better guitars
7. then some leadguitar
8. some this and that
9. then different drumloops and breaks and fills.
and so on....

and in the process the whole song changes!

[Dave_O]

I usually do acoustic guitar and vocal first as a "scratch track, but using Fezz Parka's logic

Originally Posted by fezz parka

Hey Brother Pete, just wanna remind you that Dave Edmunds vocal on Sweet Little Lisa is a scratch track. Use a good mic, you never know what'll be a keeper.

if I'm using a machine,then
i'll work up a drum track
then bass
then electric rhythm guitars,
solo guitars,
specialty sounds,
maybe redo the acoustic,
maybe put on keys

But if it's a band, I'll record the drums as keepers,
(2x condensers as L/R overheads
kick mic
Snare mic)
vocal mic
and line the guitars in, to re-record later

[CSS]

Good jom\b Tim, on the writng, vocals, and recording That song has a Sheryl Crow "all I want to do is have some fun" flair to it.

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

When recording bands, I really like to record as full a band track as possible the first time around, at least drums, bass, one guitar and a scratch vocal. Then I'll add stuff, replace stuff, double stuff, etc.

On some of the internet collaborations I've done, we'll start with a click track and a scratch vocal/guitar track, and build from there. It's always amazing to me when we end up with what sounds like a live recording!

Here's a song I wrote and played bass on last year that we did that way:

http://www.crystalclearrecording.com...Interstate.mp3

Cheers, Tim

[octatonic]

I have three main ways of doing things:

Record the entire band live, then replace any parts that don't work.
This could be the guitars, bass, keys vocals or other melody instruments.
The purpose of recording live is to get the drums grooving- this happens best when the drummer is playing with his band mates.

Otherwise I track on instrument at a time- starting with drums, to a click and see what happens.
It isn't ideal- and it takes a really great drummer for it to work at all.
I do this when there is a lot of keyboard sequencing going on.

Lastly, I build the track up from sampled drums, play over the top of it, then have a drummer come in and replace the samples with his playing.
This is the most difficult to get right- takes a real pro to be able to work with the recordings and to groove within the established framework.
Only worked with a couple of people who did it really well- they both do sessions for big stars now.

[soultosoul13]

everything live...
in one room

[sax4blues]

The kids I usually record are guitar driven.
1-We record guitar/guitars and bass to a drum machine with scratch vocal.
2-Then either drums or vocals.

Sometimes we record full band live but with only 8 channel input this makes some compromises, especially when 2 guitars are playing.

Some samples:

www.myspace.com/velvetfoxx RocksOff was full band, Disease was guitar/bass, then drums.

www.myspace.com/withinhighwalls These songs were 2-guitars/bass, then drums. (this is the scremo/metal stuff, you may not like it but they write some good songs with flashy guitars)

I usually record guitars with two tracks, dynamic close / LDC set back. Then the two tracks are mixed eq/pan/reverb/leveled... differently to create a large rock sound.