Recording: What Do You Use?

[vic108]

What do you use to record your tunes?
List your gear & the Pros & Cons.

BOSS BR-8 VERSUS........?

Got the BOSS BR-8 Recorder a few years back thinking it would
inspire me to start recording again after almost a 20 years lay-off.

I hated it - it felt like a toy and the on-board amp models sucked.
I'm gonna give it another chance soon as I'm getting the urge to
record again. Hope I mesh with it better this time around.......

Are the new generation Boss units any better? The Boss BR-1600CD
and the Boss BR-1200CD look good and both have on-board drum
machines, which is a big plus in my eyes!

What about the TASCAM? The Tascam 2488 24-Track Digital Recording
Workstation looks very nice too. I have an old Tascam Porta-studio
first generation that I wore out but it worked great for years! Easy
and fun to use, it was!

KORG's D3200 32-Track Digital Recording Studio looks SWEET too!
I got an old Korg M1 and an old Korg A-3 guitar processor which
are very easy to use. Wonder if that translate to their recorders?

I tried recording with the PC but it's so sterile, two dimensional and
I'm used to sliders and faders for the 'real studio' feel.

[teledude66]

I was using an M-audio Mobile Pre into Cakewalk, well everybody into a mixer then into the Maudio. For Christmas the wife got me a Lexicon Omega so I can go 4 tracks at once (we're very guerilla in our recording) but it allows us to get maybe 3 good takes, I figure we'll do the drums last and use all 4 inputs for for that.

[morroben]

I use a Boss BR900CD.
Korg Ampworks modeling signal processor (good amp tones, the effects suck)
Behringer Mic200 Tube Ultragain (must be good, it says "ultra" right in the name)
Behringer B1 Condenser Mic
SM57

[maestrovert]

i mostly use a Korg D-1200(w/onboard cd burner), in conjunction with a Fostex MR-8(battery powered portable idea scratchbook) and also a Digitech GNX-4 w/bundled Cakewalk software....
all of the above are USB capable, for importing tracks/files (processing, reamping, editing etc) into & out of, (if necessary) the 'puter....

[Larry F]

I know this sounds crazy, but for the best sound I use an Earthworks wide-frequency omni (4 Hz to 40 kHz) mic into a Metric Halo A/D convertor into Max/MSP software. I do a lot of sampling in an anechoic chamber and this gives me the lowest noise floor and recording flexibility.

For casual home stuff, I use an SM-57 into a Digi 002 into Pro Tools.

[Tim Armstrong]

Vic, you gotta come up later this spring after I get The Rumpus Room up and running! PC recording doesn't have to be sterile! Good mics, preamps, a good sounding room, and good instruments, and it'll sound as good as just about anything...

http://www.moodswingers.org/listen.html

Cheers, Tim

[Fourth Feline]

I use a Tapco 'Link' USB interface with bundled "Tracktion" recording software. For Amp/effect modelling I use the brilliant Guitar Rig 2 software. All the above works ok into a (Dell) laptop with only 512 MB of RAM. I know 1GB + of Ram would be better, but I have no problems as Tracktion and Guitar Rig 2 are very Ram memory efficient. I find that Line 6/Guitar port and the fully featured version of I.K. "Amplitube" guitar modelling is far greedier with RAM space and therefore freezes up or distorts on my rather modest Laptop P.C.

Bear in mind that I am usually laying individual guitar tracks onto studio produced projects sent to me, and not recording a whole band in a live situation though.

FF.

[CSS]

I use a Soundcraft Ghost 24 channel board into an Alesis HD24 Hard Disc Recorder. For the life of me, I cannot get into the "computer" recording. I may one day but for now, this set up cannot be beat.

[Ben Harmless]

Originally Posted by CSS

I use a Soundcraft Ghost 24 channel board into an Alesis HD24 Hard Disc Recorder. For the life of me, I cannot get into the "computer" recording. I may one day but for now, this set up cannot be beat.

Hey, if I had that rig, I probably wouldn't be recording nearly as much on my PC.

FWIW, my setup is:

Mics:
-Shure SM57 - 'nuff said.
-Shure Beta 57A - Different flavor, tighter pattern, great for live use as it rejects lots of feedback.
-Kel Audio HM-1 - Cool new budget mic that doesn't sound budget from a new company. Very flat, unhyped response that some call "dark."
-(2) MXL 603s - Very nice on acoustic and such.
-Shure 55SH - "Elvis" mic - for looks. Sounds bad. I want to replace the capsule with a '57 capsule sometime.

Outboard:
-DBX 266XL stereo comp - Not great, but better than a 3630. Very finnikey.
-DBX 163x mono comp - One slider: "compression." The jury's still out.
-Presonus Tube Pre - Cheap, different flavor of pre. A pretty good DI. Avoid the "tube drive" knob.

Other:
-Sansamp (old, pre Bass-driver) Bass DI - Internally adjustable, but without the flexibility of newer models. Does the SVT thing very well, but may need some lows rolled off.
-Yamaha MG10/2 board - Cheap, 4 pretty straight forward mic pres. Perhaps a little sterile, and slightly hyped on the lows and highs.
-Lexicon Alpha USB interface - Avoid like the plague. Even the tech support couldn't advise me on how to install it on my very standard machine. I figured it out myself after awhile, but it still suffers from unacceptable latency. Much better audio than my old Sound Blaster card, but more problems to deal with.
-Cakewalk SONAR4 stuido - A good platform if it didn't seem so unstable on my PC. I'm contemplating going with Samplitude next time I have money to upgrade.

All in all, I can't complain. I've worked professionally in the live world with everything from cheap B******r desks to million-dollar Midas/Meyer rigs and high-end AKG/Neumann/Beyer/Shure/EV/Sennheiser mics, and I don't get pro-results, but I get high-quality demo recordings, which is what I was after. That is, if I force myself to finish a song once in awhile.

[Mad Axe Man From Hell]

Hmm...I have a pretty basic software thing (currently on the trial version, hope to buy the full thing at some point) for straight-to-computer stuff...

As for analogue, I have a 4-Track Tascam Porta02... Its very simple and quite easy to use, but only 4-tracks and not exactly for real pro level stuff. Oh, and I have a rather rubbish old microphone... Pros: It works. Cons: It doesn't very well...

That's about it, to be honest, hope to be getting a new mic soon-ish and maybe some new equipment... Any suggestions for very cheap, decent quality stuff? Thanks

[magicguitar]

I've just started getting into recording. I only have one item a GNX4 and so far it works well.

[vic108]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Vic, you gotta come up later this spring after I get The Rumpus Room up and running! PC recording doesn't have to be sterile! Good mics, preamps, a good sounding room, and good instruments, and it'll sound as good as just about anything...

http://www.moodswingers.org/listen.html

Cheers, Tim

Whoa! That sure sounds good, Tim!

Wonderful song recorded wonderfully! Nice sound!
Has a great warmth to it! Thanks for the invite, Tim!

[backmantele]

I am using a Tascam Firewire FW-1884 interface with a Bluebird mic, Cubase SL software and am running it on a MAC. Pretty simple but seems to work good for me.

[GoldieLocks]

I got the Boss BR1600. It's pretty good. can record 8 tracks at once. Lots of options. I can record a song/mix/master/burn onto C.D. all in one hour. The drum machine is simple & good.

The sound quality is good. Not great. I lose a bit of sound but can still make some top notch recordings (better than those 80's C.D.'s).

[CountryShawn]

Mine:

DAW:
Apple PowerMac Dual-Core 2GHz G5
Cubase SX
Plug-Ins Galore (too many to list here)

Mics:
CAD Equitek E-100
Studio Projects C1
Shure SM57
Shure SM58

Outboard:
AudioFire 12 (12 in/out 24 bit / 196KHz audio interface)
Speck MicPre 5.0 Mic Preamp / DI
Mackie VLZ 1402 Mixer
Event PS-8 Project Studio monitors

Pros of this setup:

1) Very flexible - Will run a very large number of simultaneous audio channels with total automation ability. Waves plugs (comps, etc) are quite good for SW instantiations.
2) Doesn't require a whole whackload of space.
3) Very pro level recordings can be done with this (if the right guy is running it).

Cons of this setup:

1) I still think that the summing bus on analog consoles are superior. I can detect summing artificacts in the digital domain that bug me from time to time.
2) Keeping up with OS, DAW & Plug-In compatibility can be a royal PITA at times and lead to more time re-installing and less time recording. (Now I only upgrade when I've deemed it is absolutely, positively necessary).
3) (Applies to all DAW's) Tough to totally eliminate the edgier and somewhat sterile of the "digital" sound reproduction process.

[Heather Anne Peel]

I'm old school. I began recording with a Tascam Porta One 4-track in January 1988. I got a Tascam 688 8-track cassette recorder in October 1990 (still have it and use it!). I also got a Tascam 424 4-track in December 1992 (still have/use it, as well). A few years back, I won a Tascam 564 MiniDisc Portastudio on eBay (in great shape, I love it). Last year, I bought a Tascam DP-01FX/CD, as well, which is perfect, as it's a complete, all-in-one recording solution. It has onboard FX and I can burn CDs on the spot. A few years back I messed around with Cubase and Magix sortware, but I definitely prefer using multi-trackers over computers for recording.

[csharp]

I'm using a Boss BR-600.

The thing to watch out for with COSM modeling it to not overload the inputs which seem quite sensitive. I keep the input level fairly low and the modeling works a little better.

A Zoom pedal into the BR-600 gives a better sound than the built-in COSM effects.

I have also tried an SM57 recording a tube amp. I found that the SM57 is not very sensitive and would benefit from a pre-amp. However the BR-600 is lacking in line level inputs.

I can either mix on the BR-600 or export to the computer to mix in a program like Cubase.

My first try with a computer recorder interface resulted in high latency and buggy drivers.

I am pondering whether to go with a more capable recorder in the future or try again with a computer interface.

The computer method is interesting because the virtual instruments available as plugins have surpassed what a dedicated synthesizer can do. One thing that I have not tried yet is making a synthesized track in Cubase and exporting it to the BR-600 to record along with.

[vic108]

Doug (csharp),

Thanks for the insight on the input levels.
Maybe that's be part of the problem (?)

I should give it another try - it's been a few years!

Of course, I lust after the Roland VS-2480DVD 24-Track Digital Recorder.

[csharp]

I hope the tip works for you vic108.

The scary part about recording is that you can spend a lot more money on recording gear than on guitars. I am hoping to find out which less expensive equipment has good value.

Here is a link to a downloadable talk show where Scott Hanselman and Carl Franklin discuss pro audio basics.

http://www.hanselminutes.com/default.aspx?showID=56

Carl has a lot of good information on how to get started in audio recording.

[kvgros]

Protools 7.0
MBox 2
Dell XPS M170 Laptop

I either plug my Vox ToneLab SE in stereo into the MBox or I track offsite at a buddies studio through a Neve VR-60 board using ProTools HD for storage. Then I bring the sessions home and mix/master on the laptop.

[eddiewagner]

i do it with an i mac and garageband. i "feed" it with a vox tonelab and a samson cl7 microphone. all through a supercheap phonic mm 502 mixer. thats it. i am actually planning to get my hands on a boss micro br. so i am not so glued to the monitors.
eddie

[lemmy99]

i use "garage Band" and a usb interface guitar adaptor called "guitar-plug", its cheap and tacky.

The point on latency is that i don't use the computer to play back "live rendered guitar sound" when playing the guitar.

The software plays back the drum track and previously laid down rhythm guitar and i play with acoustic volume only(directly plugged into the USB port).

This is ideal as the latency is caused by the computer rendering the "live" sound guitar and is nil latency when the output is turned off.

sample: (50's classic tele, clean vox model, reverb and a touch of chorus)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lemming...dance%20on.mp3

Try it next time your using USB software for recording.

[Jeffscreamedcorn]

Mac Titanium G4 1 GHz Power Book
Motu 828
Midiman Radium 64
Roket 5 power monitors
Roket 10S sub woofer

DP4
Logic
Reason
Peak Pro
Garage Band

Shure Beta 57
Sterling Audio ST55
Audio Technica AT3035
(2) Audio Technica AT 812

[Leon Grizzard]

I have a Korg D-1600, the predecessor to the current D-3200. I'm very happy with it, like the portability and the turnkey aspect of studio-in-a-box; everything works together. There is a great user forum. The D-3200 can record 12 tracks at once at 16-bit, 32 tracks total. Half that at 24-bit, but you could do a lot with 16 tracks of 24-bit recording.

[teledude66]

Ok, I can see the preference in going to tape versus digital, but now I'm hearing there is a difference in digital i.e. stand alones versus PC based. Is it a latency issue only or the detachment from the faders or what? I mean I had latency issues when I started, but it was because I wasn't using the interface right. I was just wondering what the digital vs. digital reasons are.

[woodman]

i recently ditched my Tascam 488 (8-tk cassette) and got a little digital rig up and running -- Edirol interface into hot-rodded Mac G4 w/Firewire hard drive. getting my feet wet in GarageBand, with copies of Logic Express and Digital Performer on my machine when i'm ready to take off the training wheels.

[Tele295]

We've been getting real good sounds out of Cool Edit Pro on the computer. I can't get the hang of the digital stand-alone records. I loved the tone of my old (1987) Tascam PortaOne 4 track, but it didn't have enough tracks.

[teerjerker]

Originally Posted by Ben Harmless

-Lexicon Alpha USB interface - Avoid like the plague. Even the tech support couldn't advise me on how to install it on my very standard machine. I figured it out myself after awhile, but it still suffers from unacceptable latency.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I am curious:

What would you all consider as unacceptable latency?

I've set up a dual boot Win2000/Linux box with the Linux side as a digital audio workstation. I am able to get the latency down to about 8ms, but I am wondering if this is considered acceptable? I think I could do a few things to improve the latency, but I probably should invest the time that would take into becoming a better musician.

[Ben Harmless]

Originally Posted by teerjerker

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I am curious:

What would you all consider as unacceptable latency?

8ms is pretty decent overall, and may or may not require you to time-align tracks once you've recorded. My problem is that I've got to slide tracks by upwards of 50 or 60ms. It's to the point where I sound like I'm completely lost in my playing until I align the tracks correctly. Ideally, you'd want to make sure everything lines up anyway once it's recorded, but I hate not being able to press play to listen to a take without compensating for the interface's weaknesses first.

Next step up for me is probably to a full 16-channel firewire or PCI interface.

[J-man]

I use a small Behringer Eurorack 4 track mixing desk with a Shure SM58, since at home I only use one mic at any one time I just run the output into my soundcard's stereo ins.

For Software I use a free program called Kristal.

[studio1087]

Fostex MR-8
Art Tube Phantom Power Mic Pre-Amp
MXL 880 Condensor Mic
SM 58's (2)
SM 57's (2)
Alesis Nano Compressor
Alesis Midi Verb
Alesis Nano Verb
Alesis SR-16 Drummer
Roland SPD-6 Drum Trigger Pad Set
Akai Rack Mount CD Burner

[vic108]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for the insights!

I'd rather spend time getting my chops back than
goofing with learning a difficult recording system.
The easier, the better..........

[Heather Anne Peel]

Originally Posted by vic108

Wow! Thanks to everyone for the insights!

I'd rather spend time getting my chops back than
goofing with learning a difficult recording system.
The easier, the better..........

So what route will you take?

[Paul in Colorado]

There's a great recording studio about a mile and a half from my house where I do any serious projects. For songwriting and working up songs, I use a cassette recorder. Sometime this year I hope to have a small ProTools rig up and running once I can afford the host computer.

For demo's, the bass player in one band has an extensive computer recording rig and the space to set up.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by vic108

I'd rather spend time getting my chops back than
goofing with learning a difficult recording system.

you can have your cake and eat it too. computer recording isn't rocket science -- as even a techno-putz like myself can learn -- and laying down tracks will do wonders for your chops, both inspirationally and disciplinary.

[Heather Anne Peel]

It's old (early '90s), cassette and huge, but my 688 remains my fave. I have newer, digital gear, but there is something really cool about this old Tascam. I remember buying it new in 1990 and thinking how awesome it was. It has served me well for over 16 years!

[Skully]

you can have your cake and eat it too. computer recording isn't rocket science -- as even a techno-putz like myself can learn -- and laying down tracks will do wonders for your chops, both inspirationally and disciplinary.

What he said. If anything has built my rather limited chops, it's recording. The process forces you come up with tasty parts and play them cleanly. Needless to say, there's a lot of repetition. When it ain't working, you know it.

As for my rig(s)...

I presently use Sonar 5 Producer Edition. I've got a recording station in my office equipped with a Presonus Firebox and another in my garage drum room with an Edirol FA-101. I have have a dozen amps that I never use (including a SFDR and a SFTR). I record guitar and bass direct with a POD XT Live with the bass expansion pack.

[stax]

Originally Posted by vic108

Wow! Thanks to everyone for the insights!

I'd rather spend time getting my chops back than
goofing with learning a difficult recording system.
The easier, the better..........

Then check out the Tascam 788, great little 24 bit recorder just ignore the guitar presets, i use a J station for amp sound and effects.

[vic108]

Originally Posted by Heather Anne Peel

So what route will you take?

I'm going to give this Boss BR-8 another chance.

I was laying down some tracks on it today and what I noticed
is the drums are terrible, erasing a track is cumbersome
(gotta read the instructions again!), and it's not as easy
as my old TASCAM cassette Porta-Studio.

Also, the BR-8 does not a on-board CD burner. Someday,
I'll upgrade to a unit that does.

I have GREAT drums on my old Korg M1 synth but I don't
understand MIDI like I should.

Just wish the process was simple like the old days!

[Heather Anne Peel]

That's one reason why I really like my Tascam DP-01FX/CD. It's an all-in-one portable solution that from an operational standpoint is very reminiscent of my Tascam cassette Portas.