Crit My Mix (please?)

[tukk04]

This is a song off of my band Splintermite's new demo that we are in the midst of recording.
http://soundcloud.com/splintermite94/home-7-31-2012
I'm the engineer, producer, and mastering studio for my band as we are strapped for cash and want to get a new demo out in the next few weeks, so we're doing bi-weekly recording sessions and I started and finished mixing and mastering the first track, "Home", which has a white-boy reggae style to it (not something we normally do)

Now for the extensive gear list:
Guitar one mainly on the left (Me): Squier CV tele > dano fab chorus > fender ultimate chorus amp (close-miked and blanketed for isolation)
Guitar two + solo mainly on the right (other guitarist): Fender MP Marauder > dano daddy o drive (for solo)> univox stage 65 amp (also close-miked and blanketed for isolation)
Bass guitar (also me): Squier Bronco Bass > direct
Drums (drummer): ludwig acyllic set and zildjian cymbals
Vocals: Drummer (Lead and backing) 2nd guitarist (backing)

Recorded with an older Tascam 2488 with mackie 402 vlz3 into 1/4" inputs for stereo drum overheads all in 24 bit 44100Hz. Both rhythm guitars and drums were recorded together live in our practice space (read: drummer's parent's basement) guitar solos, bass, and vocals are overdubs

Miking:
guitars: samson dynamics
Bass: direct into tascam
Drums (total 5 mikes): samson dynamics (L+R overhead and bass port) samson snare mics (top+bottom of snare)
Vocals: shure dynamic+homemade popfilter in vocal tent made of blankets (lol, cheap but effective)

Mixing and mastering done in latest update of Reaper, Here's a general vst rundown:
(Inb4 preset criticism, effects are generally using presets (thats all ex mix is) but I did tweak to taste instead of using default settings, basically using the preset as a starting point like how they are supposed to be used.)

Rhythm guitars: light eq (reaEQ) light natural sounding reverb (Toontrack EZ mix 12 bit room)
Solo guitar clean: light room reverb (EZ mix 12bit room)
Solo guitar driven: exciter+comp, echo and delay (utility Ez mix effects) fenderish eq (reaEQ)
Bass: light reverb and enhancer (EZ mix)
Drums > kick: eq (reaEQ) gate (EZ mix)
Snare top:light verb (EZ mix) slight gating (reagate) heavy eq (izotope 5 EQ)
Snare bottom: same as top, different eq'ing, less reverb
Overheads: different eq settings, both with (izotope 5 eq)
Vocals > Lead: exciter+plate, light gating (EZ mix) silibance eq'ing (izotope 5 EQ)
Lead spikes (cut to separate track): same as above with heavier eq'ing to kill some serious mid spikes at the end of choruses
Backing vox L+R (same singer as lead): same as lead, sans EQ
Backing vox center (2nd guitarist): widening chorus, enhancer, delay, de-esser (EZ mix)

Mastering
Pre master: smooth limiting (izotope 5 maximizer)
Master > (all tweaked from izotope 5 presets)
Dynamics: thick and warm
Harmonic exciter: some tube warmth
Maximizer: light transparent limiting
Post EQ: Analog Warmth

I mixed and mastered through skullcandy lowrider headphones (borrowed from my sister because my home headphones are 5 cheapies and I forgot my somewhat good though cheap koss ones at practice) Haven't had a chance to listen through my stereo since it was too late at night by the time I finished mastering. The skullcandies are somewhat bassy so I will probably have to add some to counteract the added bass from the headphones when I remix.

rendered to 24 bit 44100Hz FLAC

Before I get raked over the coals over the expensive VSTs, I got EZ mix and Izotope as a gift from a friend who "aquired" the install files
Both excellent programs that I fully recomend and plan on buying myself if I ever have the cash
Still have to get a license for reaper though, great DAW, I certainly prefer it's power and plugin adaptability over audacity or mackie traction that I had tried before.

If you're still with me sorry about writing a book of a post but when it comes to mixing and mastering, details are important.

And thanks to anyone who critiques or even just listens to my band's song.
Peace,
Tukk04

[woodman]

I listened to it once through closed-back headphones, once through my old Yorkville monitors (6.5" woofer) and once through a set of M-Audio BX5a's (entry-level, mid-heavy).

The vocals vs. the rhythm guitars fared best through the 'phones, because the hard left/right pan on the guitars separated them from the vocals. But on speakers, it was evident that the vocal and guitars are competing for the same sonic space, and it makes the lyrics hard to understand. Maybe try notching out the 2K-3K range on your guitar EQs to give the vocal some breathing room?

As you predicted, the bass sounded kind of small on the phones and the little speakers, but when I cranked it up on the big speakers, it was jumping around in the mix some ... I would kill the reverb on the bass and add some compression so it sits consistently in the mix. That will fatten it up some too. ... A little comp on the snare and kick wouldn't hurt either. Cymbals are kind of "splishy," you might want to adjust your high-end EQ, maybe see if the "sibilance eq" you referred to helps. Also, the hi-hat sounds a bit out-front (I get busted for this all the time in my mix threads!).

I'm not familiar with EZMix, so I don't know if you can adjust each component manually, but beware of one-size-fits-all presets. As far as your recording rig, gotta give you points for making do with what you've got. ... When you revisit your mix using speakers, you'll be able to take it another step. Make a mix CD and listen to it on various systems (home stereo, car, boombox, etc.) to see how it's translating. This is just one opinion, and maybe others will chime in. Good luck!

[djm67]

Can't give you much in the way of technical feedback other than the vocals could have been a little louder but I like it.

[tukk04]

@woodman thanks for going as far as to listen on different headphones/speakers, and yeah, I used ez mix for general stuff like de-ess and it has some pretty verbs/delay and used reaper and izotope effect to fine tune, I will definately try your suggestions and yes, I have noticed the vocals aren't loud enough so I'm going to work on that and maybe figure out how to eq the mids and highs on them so they stand out a bit along with more volume and I'll work on the guitar eq. Thanks so much for the help, I'm getting better at mixing but I'm still just learning so hearing from someone that knows more than me is always appreciated.

@djm67 thanks for the comment, and I'm bringing up the vocals.

I'll have a new mix up at the latest mid-day tomorrow using your guys advice so check back when you can. Thanks again

[peteycaster]

Hey, great way to start a thread giving the sort of detail you provided. This gives the people on here who know a bit about recording (not neccessarily me) more to go on.

My first comment would be the bottom end seems a bit cluttered. Maybe high pass the guitars a bit to remove some of the mud in the bottom end. Put on a HPF when the bass is playing and move it up until the guitar starts to sound cleaner. Alternatively use a narrow Q to find the conflicting frequencies, widen the Q and pull it back a couple of db's. The guitars also seemed a bit prominent in the mix, mabe pull the volume back a bit? This may aslo help create a bit of space for the vocals which seemed a bit far back in the mix.

The drum sound was pretty good except for the overall sound being a bit toppy. Maybe try and tame some of those highs on the cymbal mic's by again boosting with a narrow Q then cutting or a LPF. I thought the snare sounded good, nice job there.

The only other comment I would make is that it is really important to make sure the guitars are properly tuned before recording begins. I hope you don't take offence at that but it helps tie the whole thing together when all guitars are tuned to each other and will improve the overall sound. I always check the tuning of a guitar before each take to ensure it hasn't "wandered" between takes due to room temperature or string stretching etc.

Hope some of this is helpful.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by tukk04

I'm getting better at mixing but I'm still just learning

Yeah, me too — it's a lifelong process once you're hooked — but at least you got an earlier start than me!

[tukk04]

Originally Posted by peteycaster

Hey, great way to start a thread giving the sort of detail you provided. This gives the people on here who know a bit about recording (not neccessarily me) more to go on.

My first comment would be the bottom end seems a bit cluttered. Maybe high pass the guitars a bit to remove some of the mud in the bottom end. Put on a HPF when the bass is playing and move it up until the guitar starts to sound cleaner. Alternatively use a narrow Q to find the conflicting frequencies, widen the Q and pull it back a couple of db's. The guitars also seemed a bit prominent in the mix, mabe pull the volume back a bit? This may aslo help create a bit of space for the vocals which seemed a bit far back in the mix.

The drum sound was pretty good except for the overall sound being a bit toppy. Maybe try and tame some of those highs on the cymbal mic's by again boosting with a narrow Q then cutting or a LPF. I thought the snare sounded good, nice job there.

The only other comment I would make is that it is really important to make sure the guitars are properly tuned before recording begins. I hope you don't take offence at that but it helps tie the whole thing together when all guitars are tuned to each other and will improve the overall sound. I always check the tuning of a guitar before each take to ensure it hasn't "wandered" between takes due to room temperature or string stretching etc.

Hope some of this is helpful.

Thanks, I wanted help so I figured I'd put as much info as possible so anyone that could provide advice would be able to see what was wrong.

Since the first post, I have put a hpf on the guitars and it really gave the bass room to breathe, and I am going to cut their volume so they blend a bit better. I'm a guitar player, so also being the one who does the mixing for my band I always fight the urge to bring up the guitars

I'm working on taming, like woodman said, the "splishy" sound the cymbals have on the overheads, it's making the drums sound much cleaner. As for the snare, I know what kind of snare sound I like and I specifically miked the top+bottom of it separately because I know thats the snare sound I like, so thanks for the compliment!

And I take no offense to someone that's intelligently giving suggestions that aren't just "boost the bass and kick, that's all that matters" (yes this was a suggestion someone gave me on a different crit my mix thread on a certain forum I no longer visit since finding tpdri ) But in all honesty, this mix was made off of the 5th basic take, so the rhythm guitars are probably a bit off since everyone was a bit tired, it just happened to be the best take.

Every bit of intelligent advice is helpful, so thank you very much!

[tukk04]

Originally Posted by woodman

Yeah, me too — it's a lifelong process once you're hooked — but at least you got an earlier start than me!

Yeah it's like crack but with better control over the highs and lows
I actually started with basic level mixing for my old band's demos at 15, but in the past 6 months I started seriously learning how compressors, eq, reverb, and levels work. I've been learning most of it from forums and videos but being fresh out of high school I'm looking at getting into college programs to learn as much as possible. Either that or electronics and I currently have a certificate for electrical technology from concurrent enrollment at a tech school during high school.

And regarding the mix, taking the reverb off the bass made a world of difference to it's volume and power, thanks

[SilentCityRob]

Not been around here much for the past couple of weeks - very busy at the studio at the minute!

Just some quick observations from me:

1) I'd compress the vocals a hell of a lot more. Try staging the compression so that the gain reduction is spread across several compressors (and in parallel too if you need it). Add saturation to the vocal buss (or in parallel and blend to taste if necessary) so that the dynamics are almost completely gone. This gets the vocals to a useable level. Add the dynamics back in with volume automation (boost the chorus, bring back the verses for example)..
2) Bring the cymbals/ambient drum mics down a lot! Watch out for the 2kHz-5Khz region as this is where your vocal presence lives. Sweep an EQ around to find where the problem zone is and cut it out!
3) Bring the guitars down, EQ it so it creates a nice "pocket" for the vocals to sit in.
4) I really like the snare sound, but maybe a bit over compressed - it just needs to be driving the music a bit more. Try adding some more crack with a transient designer or run a sample of a something like a piccolo in parallel.
5) More bass in the bass! Run a HPF so that it gets rid of all the unusable sub then crank a low shelf/cut some low mids to start with. Compress the crap out of it.

Sounding good! Keep at it!

Rob

[String Tree]

The following is merely an opinion and, is not meant to be taken as a put-down of any kind.
~ ST

Speaking personally:
1) lose the Chorus on the guitars.
a) Spread them out in the stereo field 9:30 - 2:30 (L - R). To my ears, they just climb all over each other and the Vocals. You did some cool stuff,
2) As soon as those Vocals start, bring the Guitars down about 4db.
Bring them back up between Verses, put'em back down when the singing starts.
Take a page out of Jimmy Page's notebook about his wall of sound: EQ the guitars so the Vocals have room to soar. Carve a hole if you have to.
3) More Bass, +3 db.
4) spread-out the overheads on the drums too.
a) Declare WAR on 580z on the snare and the overheads.
b) Do some Low frequency cutting on the Snare to get as much Kick drum out of it as possible.
5) Make sure all of your compression is Post EQ. Subtracting the freq's before you compress can net you some loverly tone!

Nice work on those drums!
Nice work on everything for that matter.

Best of luck.
~ ST

[backalleyblues]

Yeah, the mix could use some help, but the performances aren't bad...

Something Woody told me, and it came up on several of these threads, is to decide what's important to the song (usually vocals) and what's not so important... so I developed my style of mixing, where I start with

1) Get the drums mixed together, and sounding good by themselves

2) Next, I add the bass, getting it to balance with the drums. I oftentimes will notch the bass @ 100hz, to allow some space for the kick drum to come through better

3) Vocal-I will solo this, getting it to sound as good as I can, all sibilence, compression, etc. then I bring back the drums and bass, and balance the vocal to that-I tend to run the vocal maybe 1-2 db hotter, just so it's Front And Center

4) Now I add in the other rhythm instruments, their purpose is support, so they should not be over anything volume-wise. Spreading them out in stereo is a good thing usually, but there is going too far-9 o'clock-3 o'clock is about as far as you should dare to go.

5) Lead instrument(s) again, get the sound dialed in before adding to the mix-I like to make the lead instrument's volume match the vocals acoustically (ignore what the dial says-it's your ears that count here!)

6) Effects-I'm not familiar with Reaper, so I'm not sure this will apply, but (again, thanks Woody and Fezz!) stick your effects on a separate buss(es), instead of doing each track individually with it's effects. The overall effect (pun intended) will be a more cohesive sound to the track. If there's an effect that's ONLY going to be used on that track (say a flanger) then it's ok to add it to that track.

I personally would tear the mix down and start over, it would actually be MUCH easier in the long run than to sit here and tweak it. Not enough bass on my setup, vocals too far back, rhythm guitars dominating and grainy sounding, and too much verb on the drums (part of that splashy sound). Try going through the steps I outlined above, adding in some of the other suggestions about compression and eq (they're all good ideas!) and get the mix sounding good dry... think of it like memphis-style ribs-get it right dry, THEN add seasoning to taste... hmm, that sounds like dinner...

Don't take this in a bad way, please (couldn't live with my conscience!) Mixing is an art form onto itself, and all of us here are still learning these subtleties. It's good that you've got some decent vsts, and there's some good basic sounds going in there, now it's time to get those sounds out of the speakers!!!!

Franc Robert

[woodman]

Originally Posted by backalleyblues

get the mix sounding good dry...

Whammy!

Then add 'verb, season to taste ....

[backalleyblues]

Originally Posted by woodman

Whammy!

Then add 'verb, season to taste ....

Something you taught me Woody, and I thank you for it!!!

Franc Robert

[tukk04]

Thanks for the help everybody, I'm still working on the remix and now have 2 other recordings to mix now. Lots of work ahead of me with this project and I've been busy so I'm just getting back to it now. @Backalleyblues: rest easy, I never take polite opinions (positive or not) badly when I ask for help, thats why I asked in the first place.

[magicguitar]

All I can say is bring the vocals out front a bit more.

[Bartholomew3]

Originally Posted by magicguitar

All I can say is bring the vocals out front a bit more.

That's what I thought also - vocals are buried - usually done when the singer is flat or weak.

Bass not loud enough, guitars are fighting each other for space at times - that's when the production experience of a pro can make a huge difference.

[tukk04]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew3

That's what I thought also - vocals are buried - usually done when the singer is flat or weak.

Bass not loud enough, guitars are fighting each other for space at times - that's when the production experience of a pro can make a huge difference.

Sorry, but that's not always a viable option, the production experience of a pro costs money I and my band don't have. If that was something I could afford I would have already done it. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but, "there's got to be someone around you that could do it for cheap" would probably be the rebuttal of anyone making your suggestion. For me the money isn't there even for the cheapest local producer around, because our budget is $0 and work and time is all we can afford to put in at the moment.

Thanks for the suggestion, but It doesn't apply in this case and to be honest it would not apply to anyone looking for someone to critique their work, as chances are they are asking for help because they can't afford the advice of professionals otherwise.

No Offense Intended, Bartholomew

[woodman]

Not to mention the experience you get by feeling your way along, learning the ropes from not only your mistakes but your breakthroughs.

[peteycaster]

Originally Posted by tukk04

Thanks for the suggestion, but It doesn't apply in this case and to be honest it would not apply to anyone looking for someone to critique their work, as chances are they are asking for help because they can't afford the advice of professionals otherwise.

Good point. That's why we're all on this site really, to learn and pass on those little bits of info that we may have found useful. Keep at it, you're already further along with your drum sound than many of us.

[tukk04]

Originally Posted by peteycaster

Good point. That's why we're all on this site really, to learn and pass on those little bits of info that we may have found useful. Keep at it, you're already further along with your drum sound than many of us.

Well thanks! I thought the drums sounded decent, but I didn't expect a compliment like that