PA Question- Is this the easiest way

[aggro_jo]

Apologies in advance if this is the incorrect forum, I didn't see any others that fit better.

Howdy all-
I have a 3 piece band that plays small gigs frequently and we need an entire PA system.

We require/want:
8 channels for vocals and instrument mics
the ability to run two monitors on stage with independent mixes
and obviously a way to run a set of mains (nothing fancy)

I have been looking at the Soundcraft EPM8 board and it seems it will handle this with ease. My thinking is purchase this board and then I would need powered monitors (or separate power amps for each mix) and a power amp for the mains.

Does this make sense or is there an easier (cheaper) way to achieve what we are after?
Also is it possible to use the line in from a junk PA (harbinger HA60) and use the unit as a power amp for a set of monitors?

Thanks so much and I appreciate any knowledge you can share.

[String Tree]

There is always a way!
Many times there is more than one way.
You have to choose the way that makes the most sense for your band.

I suggest you go to the Manufacturers website, download the specs on the equipment you want and, look at the wiring diagrams.

I suggest you go for Pre-Fader Monitor sends.

Most of the Powered mixers I see do not have that option.

DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS.
It is the only way to get answers.

Anytime!

~ ST

[backalleyblues]

I would tend to think the BandWagon section would be the place for this, but like StringTree says, Don't be afraid to ask questions!

I would get a bigger board, 12 channels at a minimum, you'd be amazed how fast you can chew through channels, even in a 3 piece (I do the same!). You might want to look at some of Carvin's offerings, like this one- http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/RX1200L-PM15

Add you monitors, and you're good to go!

If you want to do the powered speaker thing, make sure that you have the mixer/processing part of the signal path figured out LONG before you send any signal to the speakers. While it may not be the absolute best in sound quality, something like a Mackie CFX-16 or 20 might be the way to go with powered speakers... eq and effects already on board...

Considering the amount of money involved, I'd first write down everything that you need, then research the living daylights out of it for 2-3 days, before walking into a music store or calling in an order... measure twice, cut once...

Franc Robert

[macaroonie]

Originally Posted by aggro_jo

Apologies in advance if this is the incorrect forum, I didn't see any others that fit better.

Howdy all-
I have a 3 piece band that plays small gigs frequently and we need an entire PA system.

We require/want:
8 channels for vocals and instrument mics
the ability to run two monitors on stage with independent mixes
and obviously a way to run a set of mains (nothing fancy)

I have been looking at the Soundcraft EPM8 board and it seems it will handle this with ease. My thinking is purchase this board and then I would need powered monitors (or separate power amps for each mix) and a power amp for the mains.

Does this make sense or is there an easier (cheaper) way to achieve what we are after?
Also is it possible to use the line in from a junk PA (harbinger HA60) and use the unit as a power amp for a set of monitors?

Thanks so much and I appreciate any knowledge you can share.

Soundcraft have great Mic preamps even in the EPM series so thats a good start. No grunge on the vocals.
EPM series have had some issues with the power supply which I would expect have been resolved by now so I wouldn't worry with a brand new one.

As a general suggestion buy as good as you can get even if it is less than you think you need. The big brands didn't get there by accident.

Crown and QSC for amps

JBL QSC EV for speakers

Stick em all in rack cases and you will be good to go. Don't forget to get decent cables , your whole show relies on these humble but necessary products.

Get good mains distribution reels !!

Get rid of wall warts if you can !! ( messy )

Less good mics will serve you better than a lot of cheapies.

And a final thought , there is a mountain of good used gear out there , some of it really quite old. Search, look , listen , learn and buy carefully.

[Martin R]

Mixer main out to a power amp, (or powered speakers)...Monitor out to a power amp, (or powered monitors.)

You can make that Harbinger thing work, but it'll be a pain.

Get a rack case with wheels if you go with two power amps.

[AJBaker]

A lot of good options out there, my piece of advice is to not go too cheap on the pa. If say you're guitar amp is too small, you can mike it up and put it through the pa. If your pa is too small, there's not much you can do about it.
It's the last link in the sound chain, and the main thing that connects you to the audience.
I own and love an hk elements system, but it's pricey. I've also tried the qsc k series and thought they were great!

[rokdog49]

I agree with backalleyblues. Go a little more than what you feel you need in channels.
Having a little overkill will prevent future issues which are sure to happen.

[KRZ4TELE]

Check this out

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330761765361...#ht_784wt_1413

[aggro_jo]

thanks for all the great info thus far!

I must confess I am a complete newbie with regard to setting up sound. Until now, we have performed as a opener and the other bands we played with alway took care of the sound. All I ever did was hand them the cord to my amp mic.

Perhaps my original question was a bit too specific so let me rephrase slightly:
If you could start fresh, are separate power amps worth the hassle for a small bar band? It seems we could get a board, powered monitors and powered mains and have a very streamlined set up. What is the downfall to that logic?

Thanks again!!!

[Martin R]

We're about to "start fresh".

Right now we have four Yamaha Club Series monitors powered by a QSC amp. We use a couple of 15" JBL's with horns for mains. An old Crown drives them. It works, everyone in the band has great monitors and FOH is fantastic. It's also a HUGE pain to set up and take down.

We're going to test drive a couple of Bose L1 Compacts. They should be plenty for most of the clubs we play. From what I've read, we'll have one L1 behind the band and off to one side. The other will be near the front just ahead of the mics and on the opposite side of the stage. (Sweetwater has a 30 day return policy and we have a bunch of shows that should be varied enough for a real trial.)

We'll keep the JBL's and Crown for larger clubs or outdoor shows and use an L1 for monitor.

That's my fantasy. Stay tuned.

[Telesavalis]

Easiest PA set up I can think of for a small band is a Mackie passive mixer with a couple of powered speakers.

or, if you each want to do your own thing check out the Roland AC-60.

[backalleyblues]

I'd say the EASIEST (other than hiring a sound co.) is the Carvin system I pointed above-1 power cord, only speaker cords to the speakers, AND it covers your need for 2 monitor mixes (just add monitors!) I've used powered heads for years, and nothing beats their simplicity of setup-mic cables in the front, speaker cables in the back, fire it up and GO!

To each their own, though, and the OP is the only one that TRULY knows his needs...

Franc Robert

[woodman]

Originally Posted by backalleyblues

I've used powered heads for years, and nothing beats their simplicity of setup-mic cables in the front, speaker cables in the back, fire it up and GO!

+1 ....

[macaroonie]

Originally Posted by aggro_jo

If you could start fresh, are separate power amps worth the hassle for a small bar band? It seems we could get a board, powered monitors and powered mains and have a very streamlined set up. What is the downfall to that logic?

Thanks again!!!

Nothing wrong with your logic at all. There is one potential pitfall and that is if one of the power modules in your mains fails on you. It happens. If you have a rack of amps you can either have a spare or patch in one of the monitor amps to get you through the night. Remember that each powered item has to have a mains cord also so set up is not really reduced by much.

My recommendation , get one of these

Attachment 136228

and load it up with 3 power amps and your EPM mixer with rack ears on the top.
There are loads of power amps to choose from but you will see Crown mentioned all the time. There is a reason for that.
XLS series can be had for low $$ and a trio of 202's will get you started.
Two of them in bridge mode for your mains and one in 2 channel mode for your monitors.

There should be enough space in the rack to house a good reverb unit , plenty to choose from there and you will want to have a patch panel on the front for all the external in's and out's like speaker connections etc.

If you want to be a bit more rowdy upscale to XLS 402 bridged for your mains.

For speakers I can't say enough in favour of JBL. They more or less wrote the book and they have been at it for years.
I don't know what your budget is but e bay is awash with good used.

If you told me more about what you play and how loud you expect to be I could give you some pointers.

If you are not puttin anything with deep bass through this system then a single 12" plus horn will get you started. Anything with a 2206 bass driver will be good. Look for Sound Power series or SR or SRX.
Loud , clear and reliable.
If you want more bettah bass , go to a 15" plus horn from the same series above or add 15" subs

M

[AJBaker]

Originally Posted by Martin R

We're about to "start fresh".

Right now we have four Yamaha Club Series monitors powered by a QSC amp. We use a couple of 15" JBL's with horns for mains. An old Crown drives them. It works, everyone in the band has great monitors and FOH is fantastic. It's also a HUGE pain to set up and take down.

We're going to test drive a couple of Bose L1 Compacts. They should be plenty for most of the clubs we play. From what I've read, we'll have one L1 behind the band and off to one side. The other will be near the front just ahead of the mics and on the opposite side of the stage. (Sweetwater has a 30 day return policy and we have a bunch of shows that should be varied enough for a real trial.)

We'll keep the JBL's and Crown for larger clubs or outdoor shows and use an L1 for monitor.

That's my fantasy. Stay tuned.

If you're planning on getting a compact line array, I can't recommend hk elements enough. When I first bought mine, I compared it to the bose l1 compact. The comparison wasn't even close. The l1 was much quieter, tinnier and with nowhere near the same bass. (The specs back this up too: both systems were about the same size and price, but the hk had 600w and the bose something like 150w)

[macaroonie]

Well, Bose , we know about that don't we. Less said the better.

[nic'o'caster]

Soundcraft EPM8 is a good small mixer. For the price there's nothing better. That said I would put a little more money and buy a mixer with good integrated reverb like the Soundcraft EFX8 (which is the EPM8 with Lexicon FX) or even the MFX8i if you want to have 2 aux lines for 2 different monitor mixes. I'm not sure it's really that usefull in small places with a 3 piece band, but who can do more can do less.

For the rest of the PA (2 mains and 2 monitor wedges) check the used market. Tons of good (and bad) stuff out there for decent price, better know your stuff... I would recommend this solution though :
- mains => 2 x Yamaha DSR 115, tons of clean power and no need for subs. The best on the market today in this segment ! I'm usually not fan of Yamaha products, but the DSR line is fantastic sounding.
- floor/side wedges/monitors => 2 x Electro-Voice ZXA1, clear and detailed sounding.

[macaroonie]

Ah yes , I forgot about the EFX with onboard Lexicon Rev. I was going to suggest the Lexicon MX300 ( I think thats it ) entry level dual channel unit.
Like you I've never been a huge fan of Yamaha speakers , nor Peavey for that matter. By and large they look the business but seem to be lacking when it comes to doing the job.

Sidenote the Yamaha P series power amps are worth a look , nothing wrong there.

[aggro_jo]

excellent conversation! I am knee deep in reading and research when I should be practicing!

With the carvin systems mentioned, how are the mains? It seems a good deal IF the speakers are decent. If not, then I am obviously better off piecing together something.

[macaroonie]

I'm not familiar with the Carvin products so cannot comment. They certainly have a vast range.

Just so you can get a taste of what is out there if you know what to look for , I got the amps below , 300 W+ in bridge mode , all 6 for 300 bucks. The booty is out there !!