Gain woes

[woodman]

For good while now, my go-to vocal setup has been the SM7b through a Brick tube preamp. It's kind to a voice that always sounds in danger of shooting itself in the foot. I've been going through an interface transition from an Alesis Multimix to a Focusrite Saffire.

The problem is, the SM7b is a notoriously low-gain mike, and the Brick maxes out at 55 dB, pretty low by most standards. So taking them line-in to the Saffire is resulting in tiny, grainy waveforms that aren't useable. [The gain on the Saffire MixControl software is set at High.]

With the Alesis, it was no problem because I had gain stages on the input, aux and control room master. Now, I've got a puddle of cow piss.

A few points:

* The SM7b sounds dandy through the Saffire pre's, although I have to turn the input up to about 9 ... no worries, it's a clean pre. But driving the tubes and transformer in the Brick gives a little extra grunt, which I like.

* Guitar and bass have plenty of signal going in through the same line input. So the weak mike/pre combo is the heart of the problem.

*Of course, hoping against hope, I tried running the Brick through the Saffire pre, and predictably it sounded like holy dog hair.

So, how do you get neutral gain without the coloration of another pre?

[Geoff738]

Cloudlifter. There's another one too. Can't remember what it's called.

A little bit of $$$ though. I was actually gonna mention them on here and now I just did.

Never used one personally though.

Cheers,
Geoff

[Geoff738]

Here's a link: http://www.zenproaudio.com/cloudmicrophonescl-1.aspx

I've heard good things about 'em.

Cheers,
Geoff

[Geoff738]

Originally Posted by woodman

For good while now, my go-to vocal setup has been the SM7b through a Brick tube preamp. It's kind to a voice that always sounds in danger of shooting itself in the foot. I've been going through an interface transition from an Alesis Multimix to a Focusrite Saffire.

The problem is, the SM7b is a notoriously low-gain mike, and the Brick maxes out at 55 dB, pretty low by most standards. So taking them line-in to the Saffire is resulting in tiny, grainy waveforms that aren't useable.

Woodman,

Have you tried boosting with the gain plug in Logic?

I think you have to be 96 db down to be the equivalent of 16 bit. Don't quote me on that, but it's pretty far down. So if you're hitting Logic at - 30 or something, it ain't really a problem. Just put gain on there to bring it up around - 15 or wherever after you've recorded and you're good to go.

It's also my understanding that you can add ridiculous amounts of gain using the plug. As long as you didn't clip on the way in (not the situation here) and you keep the stereo buss from going over zero, you can add all the gain in the world to the individual channels after they've been recorded with no ill effects.

Cheers,
Geoff

[woodman]

Originally Posted by Geoff738

Woodman,

Have you tried boosting with the gain plug in Logic?

I think you have to be 96 db down to be the equivalent of 16 bit. Don't quote me on that, but it's pretty far down. So if you're hitting Logic at - 30 or something, it ain't really a problem. Just put gain on there to bring it up around - 15 or wherever after you've recorded and you're good to go.

It's also my understanding that you can add ridiculous amounts of gain using the plug. As long as you didn't clip on the way in (not the situation here) and you keep the stereo buss from going over zero, you can add all the gain in the world to the individual channels after they've been recorded with no ill effects.

Cheers,
Geoff

Ya know, I thought about that at one point, but then I said nah, why jack up a degraded track? I was working fast and bypassed the option, but I'll check it out. It's too late for this unproject, but I think I'm hearing you ... you're saying put the Gain plug on an aux, not on the channel, right?

[Geoff738]

Originally Posted by woodman

Ya know, I thought about that at one point, but then I said nah, why jack up a degraded track? I was working fast and bypassed the option, but I'll check it out. It's too late for this unproject, but I think I'm hearing you ... you're saying put the Gain plug on an aux, not on the channel, right?

I just somehow erased a big long answer. Shorter one - no, use the gain on individual channels that were recorded too low. And a bit quiet does not equal degraded, necessarily. Like I said, 40 dbs down is still 20 bit or something. Not a big deal.

I should look this up. I believe it's in Katz's book.

Cheers,
Geoff

[ScatMan]

Originally Posted by woodman

... you're saying put the Gain plug on an aux, not on the channel, right?

You don't have to use the Gain plugin. In the arrange window, you can select the region, and with the Inspector open, double-click to the right of Gain:

Then type a positive (+) number (it's in dBs). The waveform will look the same, but gain will be increased.

..or, you could open the Sample Editor, highlight the entire vocal track and select: Functions-->Change Gain.

There you can change absolute dB values or relative dB values. The waveform will change accordingly..but, of course, that's a destructive edit.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by ScatMan

You don't have to use the Gain plugin. In the arrange window, you can select the region, and with the Inspector open, double-click to the right of Gain:

Then type a positive (+) number (it's in dBs). The waveform will look the same, but gain will be increased.

..or, you could open the Sample Editor, highlight the entire vocal track and select: Functions-->Change Gain.

There you can change absolute dB values or relative dB values. The waveform will change accordingly..but, of course, that's a destructive edit.

I've used the gain function in the Sample Editor, but had no idea about the Inspector. Another great tip — many thanks.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by Geoff738

Here's a link: http://www.zenproaudio.com/cloudmicrophonescl-1.aspx

I've heard good things about 'em.

Cheers,
Geoff

Pretty impressive, and exactly what I need. But yikes — the price!

[winny pooh]

Clean high gain pres as used for ribbons are pricey. To solve the problem and have better value for money you need another mic by the sound of it, you could try an EV re-320 (cousin of the pricier re-27) as it will have way more output (neo mag coupled to capsule like the shure betas) and is also a large diaphragm dynamic like your shure.

Or a condenser.... Endless selection but the mxl v67g is apparently midrangey and not too toppy.

Sm7's generally work with loud and or nasal singers like Dylan (used on last couple albums)