Not that you guys are my personal brain trust... but could you give this a listen?

[Lerb21]

I'm sure you guys remember my thread from a month of so ago asking for help with a song I had written and recorded.

Now I'm working on my Buck Owens Tribute Album, and I'm trying to put to practice what you told me.

Here's a recording of Tiger By The Tail. The vocal tracks on there are scratch, but I think they're better than some of the "finished" vocal tracks I've done in terms of pitch. I tried a new recording method so that I could hear myself better and I think its helping me out.

In addition of that, I did my best to keep the Lead Guitar and Steel separate. For whatever reason, I really like having the steel playing chords in the back while the lead guitar does its thing, so it may still be too busy.

The drums are pretty unbalanced (I just got a rough mix and put it on one track to start with) so all I can really hear now is Hi-hat and Kick. I can hear the rim click and snare a little, but the toms are kind of hard to pick up. Just letting you guys know that I'm aware of this and I'll fix this later. I guess you could call it my scratch drum track.

I haven't done much with the vocals in terms of effects... there's some delay on there, a little compression and I boosted 8.0kHz about 6db.

I mixed the tracks with some decent headphones, and the balance between vocals, rhythm section, and lead instruments sounds pretty decent to me, but I know that things can sound completely different through a good set of speakers.

https://www.box.com/s/a1d179386032ee97437f

Anyway guys, any feedback is much appreciated. I'm trying to get better and improve not only as a musician but in the studio as well, and anything that you think will probably help me out in some way. Thank you folks!

[fezz parka]

Less steel in the mix. Both the tele and the steel are fighting with the VOX. Ride them faders.

[Lerb21]

Thanks Uncle Fezz.

https://www.box.com/s/c1016d724545c13ac389

Here's what we've got. I brought down the steel on the faders a bit, and the guitar just a little. I have the solo mixed separately and didn't touch it. Vocals are a bit clearer now, but I think they may be too hot.

[ScatMan]

Nice effort as usual. Nice playing!

There is a lot of digital clipping going on from beginning to end. It's too "hot". Hopefully, it's just your stereo bounce and not recorded on any of your individual keeper tracks. Maybe double-check each track though and listen/look for clipping and re-record if necessary.

Yep, the steel and tele are crowding the vocals (especially the steel).

There is what sounds like an instrument (maybe the steel?) playing a short "scrape" at the beginning right after you sing "I've got a". You could just mute all instruments before they come in to make double-sure that they are silent.

The bass drum is masked by the bass guitar. The bass drum sounds like it's pumping away at around 60Hz. Maybe notch the bass guitar there a bit. btw: are you using a parametric eq or a graphic eq?

Also, I know this is a rough draft and eventually you will cut out the amp noise at the beginning and fade out sooner at the end.

[ScatMan]

Dang! Lerb done did a second revision as I was commenting on the first.

Not as much clipping on this one and less crowding of the vocals. I'll stand by my other comments though.

[woodman]

Nice treatment of a favorite classic!

Re comments on the guitar/steel relationship, the steel sounds real hot in the 2-3.5K range where the Tele gets its bite and sparkle (and also the critical range for vocal intelligibility). So there's a crowded house in the high mids. Might be worth a try to dip the steel a bit up there and find a sweet spot in the lower mids (might be some richness around 500-1K). If you feel you lose too much brightness, you can get it from a little peak at the 4-5K range without garbling the Tele and vocal.

Once you get the high mids sorted out on the instruments, you can bring the vocal level down without losing the lyrics. Your tracks are solid, so it's just a matter of massaging them now. Good piece of work, keep swinging the hammer!

[fezz parka]

Well described Woody. The Steel should be much mellower sounding, and Clint has to be a little more clear as to who takes the fills. IMO, the steel should be the sprinkles on a cupcake, the Tele the icing. The rest is the cake. Another analogy I've used before: The vocals are the egg, the backing tracks are the nest. The most important thing is the egg.

Here's a hint for the steel: The sound you want would be like playing the tele on the front pickup.

[Lerb21]

https://www.box.com/s/204cf3765a064346330e

Give this one a try boys...

I just as you described on the EQ for the Steel, Woodman... slight boost 500-1k, damper on 2-3.5k, and a very small up on 4-5k.

I took down the bass guitar on 63Hz about 5db.

I also went through and remixed the rhythm section by my own accord. It was so loud that it was making me push the lead tracks too hard. I have the whole song below the output meter's limit now.

I've rebalanced it, but my tastes are odd in that I'd rather hear pedal steel than vocals (that's why I'm asking you guys for help! ) I think the track is improving however.

I like having the steel playing chords in the background, but do y'all think I ought to cut to just cut it out completely in the first two choruses and 2nd verse (where the Tele plays fills)?

[fezz parka]

Damn Clint! 1000% better. What are you using for a Vocal mic?

And what are you using to record? DAW? Stand-alone?

The steel stuff is fine if kept lower in the mix during the VOX.

[DonB52]

The overall is still a bit "hot", but you are on the right track. I would add a bit of reverb to the vocal, just for depth.

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

Damn Clint! 1000% better. What are you using for a Vocal mic?

And what are you using to record? DAW? Stand-alone?

The steel stuff is fine if kept lower in the mix during the VOX.

Thanks Chris.

For the scratch vocals, I just use the condenser microphones that are built into my Zoom R16 (which is what I use to record obviously) so I don't have to worry about going through my rat's nest of mic cables.

Apart from that I don't have any mics that are built for studio use, especially this kind of music.

I have a couple SM58's laying around here. I know some people use them in the studio, but I've also heard that they only work well for certain songs or types of music. I'm a studio microphone newbie so I have no idea what to go by.

[guitarzan13]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

Less steel in the mix. Both the tele and the steel are fighting with the VOX. Ride them faders.

^^^^^^ This^^^^^^ Edit: First mix

Last one is Much Mo Betta!

[fezz parka]

Use a 58. Record in a very dry environment. Use compression on the track, and a little 'verb.

Is it this?


If so, you should really consider using it as an interface with a DAW. Then your mix possibilities will increase 1000%.

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

Use a 58. Record in a very dry environment. Use compression on the track, and a little 'verb.

Is it this?

Will do.

And yup, that's the culprit. I'm pretty pleased with it thus far...

I don't use it for mixing though, just recording. It came with it's own software but it doesn't like to work with my computer. I have SonarLE and it is okay... but I'd rather use something simpler.

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by Lerb21

Will do.

And yup, that's the culprit. I'm pretty pleased with it thus far...

I don't use it for mixing though, just recording. It came with it's own software but it doesn't like to work with my computer. I have SonarLE and it is okay... but I'd rather use something simpler.

What OS are you using on the Computer?

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

What OS are you using on the Computer?

Windows 7

[WickedGTR]

The rhythm section is complete lost in the track I'm hearing. No foundation to the track overall. Playing sounds good but no matter how perfect the song/performance/recoding is it can be very easily ruined in a mix.

If you are recording and mixing through headphones still, try speakers. You can mix something to sound decent through a particular pair of headphones, but it's sound considerably different through another kind of headphone and still not translate to speakers.

[fezz parka]

I'm sending you something via yousendit...

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

I'm sending you something via yousendit...

Fezz, halfway through it's telling me to insert disk #2 into the floppy drive. I have both files downloaded...

[fezz parka]

SHould be three files.