Recording Live

[Ecadad]

My band and I want to record a few songs. My plan is for us all to set up in a warehouse and play the track live, but without any vocals. I would then overdub all of the vocals later. How would you set this up? Will it work? Thoughts please! Is it better to record vocals live? And what mic setup?

[Martin R]

How many mics? Digital or analog? How many inputs? Ideally every instrument and drum has its own mic and individual channel.

We got a couple of hours in a studio and did just that...recorded the band live and plan on adding the vocals "any day now"...(right).

Anyway, good plan and it's probably better than trying to record vocals live regardless of your situation. If you can isolate bass and drums with no bleed from guitars and other instruments, you've struck gold.

[woodman]

I'm a big fan of "live-in-the-studio" bed tracks (drums, bass, rhythm guitar, keys etc.) because they convey the band's groove with more life. Solos and vocals can be overdubbed later.

But I'm not clear on your plan for setting up in the warehouse for the live track. Will you be multitracking the instruments with a mike on each one, or just a couple of room mikes to capture a stereo track of the whole band? In either case, you're better off overdubbing vocals IMO. But your setup for the session depends on which method you use. Fill us in with a few details ....

[Ecadad]

Originally Posted by woodman

Will you be multitracking the instruments with a mike on each one, or just a couple of room mikes to capture a stereo track of the whole band...But your setup for the session depends on which method you use. Fill us in with a few details ....

Here's the gear that I'll be using:

recording devices:
I have a digital 16 track recorder (zoom R16) that can record 8 tracks live and my friend has a Boss BR-1600 that records 8 tracks live, we can use either both or just one of them.

Mics:
three Shure SM-57's, two SM-58's, an Audio-Technica Pro 4H, a Shure SM48-LC, and an Audio-Technica M4000S, Hohner HH1490 harmonica mic, MXL 990 Condenser Microphone,and an MXL V63M Condenser mic.

We'll be recording two electric guitar, a bass guitar, and a drum-set, and occasionally harmonica. At certain points we may switch an electric guitar for an acoustic plugged into a PA System. How would you set this up? We can isolate all the amps by putting them in cubicles, we can do the same with the drums. I also have a set of Roland V-drums, but I don't think we'll use them.

[Ecadad]

We also might record a keyboard, not sure, we may simply overdub the piano and organs if we want it

[backalleyblues]

Look up the Glyn Johns drum miciing method... I did just that with our session a couple weeks ago, also using an R16, got some decent results using this setup (you need 4 mics)...

I'd use the condensors for the overheads, an SM57 on the snare, and I'd try to find (borrow) a good kick drum mic, like an AKG D112 or Shure Beta 52. For the guitars, use a 57 on each cabinet, and record the bass direct (either straight into the recorder, or a line-out on his amp-and use channel 1 for this!). Forget about the other mics, 58s are kinda weird for recording, and those AT mics are not the best either...

The other concern is leakage-with those condensors over the drums, you're going to have to baffle off the amps so you don't hear them so much in those mics. Read up on good micing techniques as well, it will make a world of difference in your sound!!!

As for the R-16, make sure you've got a good sized SD card in there (I use an 8gb card) so you have plenty of space... also, set the recording bit depth to 24 bit, the sound is MUCH better!!!

As for the acoustic guitar, I'd overdub it using one of the condensor mics, and not bother with pickups, PA setup, etc. It will sound far more natural that way.

And last but far from least-keep a note pad beside the recorder, and make notes of what instrument is on what track, which takes you liked better, etc., iow a track sheet of some sort...

As an afterthought, especially with the R16, you can transfer the tracks after recording into a DAW of your choice (the files are all saved as WAV) and mix it there-the R16 is a nice recorder, but mixing on one is a bit of a pain...

Franc Robert

[String Tree]

Ecadad, I have recorded many times with various V-Drum kits.

You may want to use them.
While they are not the 'best' thing in the world, they do record very well.

I was lucky enough to have a drummer with a full-blown TD-20, the whole kit sounded great and, took but matter of minutes to set levels.

With that said, another method is to use the kick, snare and toms Direct, but mic real hats and Cymbals.

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction.

[woodman]

Franc sized it up pretty well ... +1 on overdubbing the acoustic. But if push comes to shove and you have to use the 58s, try unscrewing the ball windscreen and see if that helps.

I don't know zip about V-Drums, so I'm no help there, but seems like that would reduce your headaches down the road. What I've heard about them is exactly as String Tree says — a decent sound to work with. In a session like yours, leakage will be your most bitter enemy when mixdown time comes. Personally, I'd rather spend a little time massaging V-Drum tracks than tearing out what's left of my hair to make sonic sense of all those boomy, ringy open drum mikes!

Sounds like you're thinking out your plan ... better now than later! It will take a lot of trial and error — if it was me, I'd figure on a full session of setting up, getting levels and running trial tracks, listening to what you got overnight, then making corrections and go for takes. Of course you'd still have those preliminary tracks you could plug in — if you're using a click track.

You're undertaking a tough project and I admire your grit. Just figure out how much time you want to spend on it, double that, and that's probably about what it'll take. I'd love to hear your results. Keep us posted on your progress!

[Ecadad]

Originally Posted by String Tree

Ecadad, I have recorded many times with various V-Drum kits.

You may want to use them.
While they are not the 'best' thing in the world, they do record very well.

I was lucky enough to have a drummer with a full-blown TD-20, the whole kit sounded great and, took but matter of minutes to set levels.

With that said, another method is to use the kick, snare and toms Direct, but mic real hats and Cymbals.

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction.

I use the V-drums to record songs in my bedroom and they sound fantastic, and it's way easier then mic'ing a whole kit

[Chud]

Not sure which drum module you have for the V-drums, but what I'd do if I were using them would be to record the drums as a midi track and then use sampled drum kits triggered by the midi track. That might be a bit more than you can do with the Zoom though, I guess.

[backalleyblues]

Chud,

Yes, that's more than the Zoom can handle-no MIDI on board... buuuttttt...

IF the V-drums can record the MIDI triggers, and send out a signal at the same time to the recorder, then maybe you can take the recorded tracks into a DAW, and marry back the MIDI code on another track in the DAW... not sure how hard this is to do (I've never done it, nor had need to) but I'm sure it's doable...

Franc Robert

[Chud]

Yeah, would definitely require a DAW. Great way to have individual control over each drum and each hit up through the final mix.