Why A Bigger Mixer?

[BigString]

Hello peoples.
Just another short question here.

I have a Yamaha MW10C, 10 channel mixer (I believe?)
Anyway, I only use about 4 inputs; Guitar, Mic for guitar amp or acoustic, bass, and external systems, i,e, drums, keyboard, etc.

Now, I can see why you would need a bigger system for a LIVE setting; You got a few band mates, so lets max it out; say your guitarist wants his amp mic'd, input 1, another for bass, input 2, lead vocals input 3, keyboardist input 4, drummer (might need an insane amount of mics), and every musician needs a microphone for singing as well, EASILY 14 inputs needed for a mixer right?

Well what I DON"T get, and in ESPECIALLY all of the 500,000 dollar "home studios" I see on youtube, and its only 1 guy or his band using it...WHY do you need such a large mixer? Even WITH a band, you don't need something as big as say this; http://www.pacificcable.com/photos/M...ital-Mixer.gif.

So my main question is; WHY do you need one, and WHAT is the benefit, because to me, it just all seems like a "whose got the most money" type of thing.

Also, would I even benefit from getting a bigger mixer?

Sorry, couldn't find an answer to this anywhere else.

[Twanginator]

I'll take a stab at this. When you are recording you want to be able to assign a fader to each track for playback. You might have everything you mentioned above, plus multiple takes on the guitar solo, variations on rhythm guitar, a percussion instrument, strings, etc. Gives you options to consider in the mix.

[String Tree]

Sometimes you need a lot of holes.
Many times the bigger boards have superior Pre amps and equalization to the smaller boards.

It all depends on what you want to do.
If you have a band in your studio, you want to dedicate a group of inputs for just the drums. IF he is staying set-up for a few days, you want to leave him set-up and left alone.
Some for the bass, guitars, vocals, etc.

You want to have a separate playback channel for each input.

If you are the Engineer, you will need to move fast.
More inputs is a great way to do it.

There are a lot of digital boards that have multiple layers of 16 for recording and playback.
Its up to you.

[BigString]

To the 2 posters above, thanks guys, thats helped :P.
I felt like I was almost being pressured into getting a massive mixer especially from the "non-pros" on YouTube and such.

[Tim Armstrong]

Naw, you only need a big mixer if a) you need a lot of mic preamps all at once; or b) you're mixing "outside of the box", rather than inside a recording program.

Tim

[String Tree]

I don't use a mixer for recording anymore.

I have six nice (not top-of-the-line by any stretch of the imagination) pre-amps and two 8-input Presonus Firepods. I can record up to 16 tracks at a time.

All my mixing is done inside my computer. I have had projects that have had as many as 76 tracks during mixdown. That was nuts, thank God I was being paid by the hour on that one.

So no, you don't have to have a big mixing board.
It all depends on what you are trying to achieve and how you are trying to achieve it.

I think the most important thing is to know the limitations of the software you are using.

I almost forgot, when you have a big mixing board, you will need a ton of patch cables.

[Old Cane]

Because you can is the only real answer. My guess is guys with 500k consoles either are rich kids, rich players or the record company got them this gear. 99 times out of 100 though these guys are just gearheads and bought it for 30k and refurbished it themselves. Not sure how old you are but if you're young study up on Tom Shotlz, the unlitmate do-it-yourselfer. It worked out pretty good for him.

[Twanginator]

In the old days, I spent some time in a small recording studio with 2" tape machines...before you could do everything on a computer. I assume the big studios still have huge mixing consoles or do they mix "in the box" now too?

[Direwolf]

I recently mothballed my 14-channel mixer. I didn't need it after I got my Saffire Pro 40. I don't have a large enough recording room to put more than 4-5 people in at a time. I mix in the box or with a midi controller and don't miss the mixer at all.

[Old Cane]

Originally Posted by Twanginator

In the old days, I spent some time in a small recording studio with 2" tape machines...before you could do everything on a computer. I assume the big studios still have huge mixing consoles or do they mix "in the box" now too?

Both. I haven't been in a big one in a couple of years but if they had them, they still have them if they have several rooms and usually have a 2" machine going as well. I think some have been changed over to automation and some are just used now for tracking. And some have gone to smaller/digital type mixers. At least in Nashville.

[octatonic]

I like large format consoles because you can reach out and grab a fader for each track rather than mousing around.

I had a large format console (D&R 4000 series) in my NJ studio.
It was a luxury but I recapped and built it myself, it was a labour of love.
Sadly I don't have the room for it here in London.
I'd go back to mixing with it if I could- I believe I think better with a large console, rather than using the computer.

[Ben Harmless]

I'm completely on board with the less-is-more approach, and while I would love to have physical faders to grab, it just isn't in the budget here at home.

However...

To illustrate times when it might be great to have a big honkin' board, here's roughly a sample input list for a monthly live radio broadcast and recording event we'd do at my last job with a 24 channel recording rig:

1. Stereo L (Shure SP88 for the main pickup of clustered acoustic instruments on stage, bluegrass-band-style)
2. Stereo R
3. Bass mic (58 )
4. Kick drum (RE27)
5. Snare (57 or something)
6. Tom/percussion (57)
7. Overhead (414 usually)
8. Piano low (414)
9. Piano high (414)
10. Room left (414)
11. Room left (414)
12. Audience L (AT 4033)
13. Audience R (AT 4033)
14. Piano vocal (Beta 87c)
15. Announce mic

That's for the house band, then we had at least two guest acts taking up more space - and note that we used only five channels for drums and two for the stereo mic that accounts for guitar, fiddle, banjo, mando, clarinet, and whatever else the house band felt like bringing. Sometimes one of the guests would be a solo fiddle player, and we'd only need two or three channels. Sometimes it would be a quartet of multiinstrumentallists, and everybody needed vocal mics...

And this is nothing. One of the first shows I ever worked (in a different place) as an A1 was Dickey Betts and Great Southern. He tours with two drummers. That band ate up my 48 channels so fast that we had to mix the opener (Commander Cody) on a seperate board.

It's the little stuff that gets you. The gong mics; the electronic bagpipes that only get used once during the encore; the DI line you take on the acoustic guitar because the performer looks like he or she can't stay in front of the mic; the DI on the bass for extra oprions, the bottom snare mic; the congas that someone forgot to mention; the lap steel that's sitting in...

You get the idea.

...Yeah, for a home rig, it just plain isn't needes unless you've got the exra cash, but the live multitrack stuff we did at the radio gig had to get mixed down eventually, and those faders are a godsend when you're mixing on the clock.

[LightninMike]

Also think about outboard effects.... running them into a channel makes it easier to control.....2 channels for stereo effects....
I do live sound, and can run 24 channels just on instruments.... then again, i have worked with some big acts, and they can give a lot of sends for one instrument....

it all comes down to skill level and knowledge of gear.... having more gear doesn't mean you know how to use it ...and sometimes you run out of room before you get what you want, and know how to use it

[Old Cane]

Well, sort of, but knowing how to use one channel strip is all you need to know...even if you need to do it 96 times. It doesn't changes your ears or what's between them (hair?). That's the hard part, knowing what sounds like crap, how to fix crap and when crap is the desired outcome.

[vjf1968]

Originally Posted by Twanginator

In the old days, I spent some time in a small recording studio with 2" tape machines...before you could do everything on a computer. I assume the big studios still have huge mixing consoles or do they mix "in the box" now too?

A little of both but there are some studios that have totally went digital. I was surprised when I landed on Robin "Hood" Brians Studio's website to see that they were completely digital. This is the studio where the Five Americans, Mouse And The Traps recorded some of their hits as well as the place where ZZ Top recorded their first 4 albums.

http://www.robinhoodstudios.com/

Ardent Studios in Memphis still uses anaolg tape machines but I think that is reserved for clients that can afford it. I think mere mortals like us opt for digital since it is cheaper.

http://ardentstudios.com/facility-to...tape-machines/

[Chud]

A lot of the pop acts & hip hoppers have a bunch of synthesized and sequenced crap that eats up a lot of tracks too. One act I worked for (who will remain nameless) had about 30 channels of sequencer tracks plus full protools band and vocal tracks BEHIND the 10 piece live band, AND I had a separate vocal engineer to run the effects on her voice off a separate 16ch Mackie.