Mixing Live Recording

[Martin R]

We recently played a benefit that was recorded on a ProTools system. The venue posted all 12 channels on an ftp site for us. It took about 7 hours, but I downloaded the whole set, X12.

The mix was for FOH, not recording so raw pretty much sucks. And apparently there were drum mics and the lap steel mic not turned on until the fourth or fifth song.

But in spite of that....HOW COOL! Our set list had most of our old standby's but we have four, maybe five songs that will be on the next CD.

I dumped everything into GarageBand...and everything was one 48 minute song. Then sliced and diced and saved as individual songs. From there I was able to mix and add just a few effects and EQ, but other than levels and pans, everything is pretty much as recorded.

There was bleed over on just about every track, so re-recording tracks probably won't work very well...But I'm still amazed everything is so clean.

You can hear the first two songs I've mixed on the link below...there's a player on the bottom of the home page or you can go to the music page. Let me know what you think of the mix.

(And since this is a Tele board...there's a '74 Custom heavily distorted and flanged on "Townes". The other electric is a 60's 1454 Silvertone being fingerpicked.)

[woodman]

Nice job on a tough project. As a FOH mix, the vocal's really out there, but that works for a live demo/CD cut. As an outsider, I don't hear any need for re-recording; what you've got is clean and distinct considering the circumstances.

Really like the atmospheric feel, particularly on "Townes" ... wondered if the bass was miked or direct and if it would be possible to bring out some of the low-mid component of the bass and give the kick a little more oomph in the 60-80 range (although I know bleed is your enemy there) — on "Townes," they're sitting right on top of each other frequency-wise and it's hard to hear each distinctly. It's better on "See You View."

That's meant purely as constructive critique, not a slag — this is a great live recording. I'd like to hear how some of the more uptempo tunes turned out!

[Martin R]

Thanks much for the feedback. Of course, you're right about everything.

The bass was direct but it's in every track. I didn't work much with EQ, mostly levels and position. The more I hear these, though, the more I want to do. I may go back and break it down track by track and really nail the songs.

The vocals are upfront, but that's kind of my default position. Our main goal is to sell the songs so if someone like T Bone Burnett is looking for material he won't have to strain to hear the words. (We've talked about the direction of the next album and we'll probably go with more of a band sound.)

The other factor is that this was the lap steel player's first show...there had been one rehearsal with him. Our bass player is his fiance and she taught him the parts.

Anyway, I'll start work on some of the others, but we have some important shows coming that need attention.

Thanks again for the fresh ears and observations.

[LightninMike]

you can gate the tracks and clean it up.... you will then have time disparity to deal with....

you can eq each track separately which will help some, but also increase problems in other areas.... especially when you put them all together again....

dolby might help you out in cleaning it all up

[peteycaster]

Nice for live. Second song reminded me of Joni Mitchel. Perhaps some hi pass on the bass and kick and a cut in one or t'other to make them sit together better. Maybe also (as Lightnin mentioned) some gating plus some hi and low pass filters would help with the bleed on individual tracks. Looks like you may have the basis for pretty decent tracks.

[TeleTim911]

Very Nice.

I once took a cassette player and plugged into our board and recorded (I was doing sound). I got it home and listened to it, it sounded NOTHING like the band did live...it was just horrible. Of course I did not have any way to mix, no seperation, it was just two channels on cassette.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by peteycaster

Perhaps some hi pass on the bass

What he said ... if you hi-pass ALL the other instruments except the kick, you'll get rid of a lot of that sludgy bleed. If it was me, I'd roll off the bass track at ~100 Hz and let the kick have everything below that, lo-passing the kick at 100 and above to roll off midrange clutter from the snare and toms. This could end up as quite a nice project, cuz it sounds like you've got decent tracks to work with.

Originally Posted by TeleTim911

Very Nice.

I once took a cassette player and plugged into our board and recorded (I was doing sound). I got it home and listened to it, it sounded NOTHING like the band did live...it was just horrible. Of course I did not have any way to mix, no seperation, it was just two channels on cassette.

This is OT, but your experience is shared by many. You could have probably done better setting the deck on a table 25-40 feet back (or wherever the focus of your FOH speakers is). ... I used to cuss my former band til I was blue in the face for our sloppy habits in live performance. Then I bought a Zoom H2, and there was Exhibit A. We became a better band quickly. But that kind of live recording is a world apart from Martin's current effort ... 12 channels, seemingly well-recorded in Pro Tools, by a band that's got its act together??!!?!??!? Man, that's a treasure trove to work with!

[Martin R]

Thanks for all the positive feedback and suggestions...and for making more work for me.

I was just looking for a nice recording of the band live. Now, because of the response here, I'm going back for a second listen with a new perspective. Maybe...maybe...a live album could come from this. Or at least more songs to post on the website.

One huge plus to what's already been done--the lap steel player is the bass player's fiance. He sat in just for kicks. Now that he's heard what he can contribute he wants to play more with us.

Thanks again for the support.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by Martin R

Now, because of the response here, I'm going back for a second listen with a new perspective.

That's happened to me more than once!

The extra work will be invaluable for experience alone, and yeah, these tracks can definitely help the band in whatever way you use them.

[Martin R]

So we were just asked to do a live radio show the day of a gig in Taos. We're going to play live with a three piece, but I'd really like for them to play the nicely mixed version of Townes.

So where should the hi-pass be set? How about compressing the master? I don't think it needs it, but I'm not looking at a very good meter.

Of course, I'll bring the level up to an acceptable level, but do you folks hear anything else that needs fixin'?

Thanks

[LightninMike]

if you aren't convinced that the meter is good, use your ears..... take a trial run and then listen..... walk away and listen again..... do a couple versions and see what you have....what works best?.... and then have another person listen to the same thing.... one who LISTENS to music and understands the artists perspective

[woodman]

I'm admittedly a rank amateur unlikely to ever achieve pro results in this lifetime, so feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt: I almost always find a little compression/limiting makes the mix sound better — fuller, more even, smoother. As long as the meter shows some healthy "bounce," you're not crushing the life out of it.

When Santana's "Supernatural" came out, I was crazy about some of those songs and listened to them a million times, but always came away with ear fatigue. When I checked it on a meter, the dynamic range (bounce) was barely bobbing, like within a 3 dB range. Yikes! Now THAT's overcompressing!

EDIT: I glossed right over the high-pass question ... you wouldn't want to high-pass your master channel, but it will really clean up the mud/boom if you do it on every channel but the kick. If your computer is resource-challenged, you could set up an aux buss with a one-band EQ rolled off somewhere between 80 and 100 Hz and send all the non-kick channels through that.

[Martin R]

Thanks for that. I had started rolling off around 50, then at 100...then I got frustrated.

Anyway, at least I was in the ballpark.